Unplayable - Page 2

Smetana · 06-14-2006, 07:52 AM

Like the guy above me, I have rarely ever posted here. I've lurked for almost four years, but seldom have put my two cents in. But the last few weeks around here has me really irked.

If I see one more person start a brand new thread simply for the purposes of claiming the game is "unplayable" or "completely broken", I swear I'm gonna' go crazy.

There's no doubting this game has lots of issues right now. I, too, have been waiting patiently for two years for this release, as a long-time player of the OOTP games. But to call the game unplayable? Get serious.

I've been playing non-stop since May 31. That's lots and lots of time dabbling and simming, creating universes, and pouring over reports and stats.

And guess what? NO crashes to desktop. ZERO. No errors of any kind, and I'd have to say I've been pounding on the game, really giving it a workout. I honestly have to say to those experiencing these CTD's: It's your machine, not the game.

Also, no game killers. Nothing--not a "feature" nor a "bug" that has made me turn the game off. Not once. No statistical anamolies to make me roll my eyes. And I'm no baseball newb--I've been an avid baseball man for almost thirty years. I know what the numbers should look like.

I do see a myriad of minor issues that must be addressed. But we all know these things will be fixed to the best of Markus' abilities. He's always come through in the past.

I'm not trying to come across as a fanboy. I am definitely not one of those. But the current state of this community is sickening. We even had one guy chastise Markus and Marc for taking a few days off to catch some World Cup action. Everybody needs some time off now and then, and I'd venture to guess Markus has had very little of that recently.

So, to a lot of folks here, I say: Enjoy the game, patch it along the way, contribute constructively to further patching and enhancements, and live your life. If this game is the most important thing in the world to you, as it seems to be to many, then for goodness sake, you need to get out more...

I'm through venting. In closing I'll just say that, IMHO, this game is not unplayable. But this forum certainly is becoming "unreadable."

mh2365 · 06-14-2006, 08:19 AM

I agree Cras is no troll. He has been a productive member of this community for as long as I can remember. The problem here is that calling the game unplayable just isn't correct.

The game is very playable. I, like many others, have never had a single crash. I find the stats to be just fine. AI moves are a little questionable but they have been in every version of every baseball game ever made.

So to call the game unplayable sounds like an unhappy second grader who deosn't get picked for a team. Making comments about the beta testers is just ignorant. I actually know since I am a beta tester for another game.

So while I think it is Cras's intention to help the game, he is hurting it by making such broad generalizations and attacking the beta testers. There are more productive manners to go about it. But to lump him in with the real trolls is unfair.

Solonor · 06-14-2006, 08:23 AM

I think what Cras was trying to say was "don't uninstall the game and give up". It was an urging to the disheartened to keep testing and to keep reporting issues, rather than just give up and uninstall the game. I think using words like "unplayable" without specifics just turns off people's ears, though. In my experience, it is unplayable for our league because of conversion issues, but I'm having a great time playing a solo career (with hiccups).

I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that this was intended to be a pro OOTP 2006 post, not a bash. A "get out there and make the best baseball sim great again" cheer. But maybe I've just been testing this thing myself too much...

As for the beta testers...I work in software. I know how impossible it is for a small QA staff to find every bug (especially when new builds are coming out every 5 minutes). The fact that the game came out with as few bugs as it has (not to mention a manual *gasp*) is a testament to their work.

However, I do not understand why something this complex did not have a public beta. OOTP always has bugs that users find and post within the first week. Most of them are "obvious" bugs. If the game had simply come out in beta form first and gotten all these issues resolved in a patch or two, the rest of the stuff is just feature and interface enhancements for new releases.

And just about everyone would have been extremely happy.

Just my

battists · 06-14-2006, 09:45 AM

If the game crashes for people, it is indeed "unplayable" for them, and fixing those sorts of things should (and probably will) be the absolute top priority for patch 2. Many crashes are caused by very specific league settings - crashes are not necessarily "hardware problems," and they won't be treated with the "it must be your computer" response unless all data points to that.

The best way to help is, in my opinion, to post individual threads in Tech Support detailing any problems you see. If you don't get a response immediately, you don't need to post threads everywhere saying the same thing.

If you haven't heard back on a tech support thread, feel free to gently bump it.

At the same time, I'd urge you to take one of two approaches:

1. Take a deep breath, shelf your emotion, and help post things in a constructive way, so that Marc and crew can best work on resolving them.

2. If you can't let go of your anger and frustration over a product that you are unhappy with, go do some kickboxing, play the drums, or whatever you do to relax. If you absolutely have to get your criticism of the game off your chest, PM it to Marc, or a friend from the boards. Don't start a new flame thread here screaming about how angry you are.

I'm not denying anyone's right to be frustrated or even angry if the product isn't working for them. But the total # of people working on this, including beta testers and so forth, is not that large, and there are limited hours in a day. Each bug needs to be reviewed, logged, prioritized, and then channeled through to Markus, who has limited time per day.

Every time that Marc, TC, or any of the moderators has to intervene in a thread that has gone off the deep end is time they're not spending working on fixing bugs. Case in point, my response here.

Anyway, my point is, you have a choice of being both frustrated and helpful, or you can be frustrated and also take resources away from working on the game by getting the forum all riled up.

swampdragon · 06-14-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

I think the game is playable, but..just not as playable..or fun..as 6.51 for people who play out games. A couple of specific issues:

The interface: Its slow, cumbersome and doesnt respond at times as quickly as it should. Sometimes moving the mouse over a dropdown icon nothing happens. In offering contract terms the interface for imputing numbers is really slow and annoying..although the thought process behind it is quite good..it would be cool if it worked a little more smoothly.

Player evaluations: On one screen I would like to see overall batting, fielding and speed ratings. There are just too many players in the game to keep track of everyone..and who wants to waste time continuously clicking here and there. It would make drafting and trading much easier.

We will be spending a lot of time with this game and it should have the easy comfortable feeling of an old friend. Obviously it is still a work in progress but there is no reason to jump ship just yet..or be in denial.

I'm there on the interface. Some things aren't horribly intuitive, but that's why they wrote that tome they call a manual. The tab system is really pretty convenient.

bababui · 06-14-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I'm there on the interface. Some things aren't horribly intuitive, but that's why they wrote that tome they call a manual. The tab system is really pretty convenient.

Can the manual make the game stop lagging or be more quickly responsive to typed commands?

Smetana · 06-14-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

If the game crashes for people, it is indeed "unplayable" for them, and fixing those sorts of things should (and probably will) be the absolute top priority for patch 2. Many crashes are caused by very specific league settings - crashes are not necessarily "hardware problems," and they won't be treated with the "it must be your computer" response unless all data points to that.

The best way to help is, in my opinion, to post individual threads in Tech Support detailing any problems you see. If you don't get a response immediately, you don't need to post threads everywhere saying the same thing.

If you haven't heard back on a tech support thread, feel free to gently bump it.

At the same time, I'd urge you to take one of two approaches:

1. Take a deep breath, shelf your emotion, and help post things in a constructive way, so that Marc and crew can best work on resolving them.

2. If you can't let go of your anger and frustration over a product that you are unhappy with, go do some kickboxing, play the drums, or whatever you do to relax. If you absolutely have to get your criticism of the game off your chest, PM it to Marc, or a friend from the boards. Don't start a new flame thread here screaming about how angry you are.

I'm not denying anyone's right to be frustrated or even angry if the product isn't working for them. But the total # of people working on this, including beta testers and so forth, is not that large, and there are limited hours in a day. Each bug needs to be reviewed, logged, prioritized, and then channeled through to Markus, who has limited time per day.

Every time that Marc, TC, or any of the moderators has to intervene in a thread that has gone off the deep end is time they're not spending working on fixing bugs. Case in point, my response here.

Anyway, my point is, you have a choice of being both frustrated and helpful, or you can be frustrated and also take resources away from working on the game by getting the forum all riled up.

I don't think it could be said any better than that, Steve.

By all means, let's post concerns and bugs, and work together towards making the game better. Let's just remember that the game's programmers are humans, not robots, and that OOTP2006, in the grand scheme of things, is not the most important thing in the world.

alinkens · 06-14-2006, 12:14 PM

I have not played with it because I can't play online leagues yet..

Caporegime · 06-14-2006, 01:05 PM

I've been experiencing severe lag problems as well. However, my PC is as hopelessly obsolete as an Egyptian War Chariot pulled by velociraptors. I'm not sure if there's any piece of programming legerdemain that Markus can pull off that will make the game run smoothly on my Tin Lizzy of a PC.

On the plus side, the game hasn't crashed once, so it's not exactly "unplayable" from that standpoint....it's just not as fun as I had hoped it would be, but that's a question of perception, I suppose.

jarmenia · 06-14-2006, 01:31 PM

I didn't think I'd ever see the day where I'd rather read the lunch thread in OT than the main OOTP forum. That day has finally come...

redmarkYankees · 06-14-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

If the game crashes for people, it is indeed "unplayable" for them, and fixing those sorts of things should (and probably will) be the absolute top priority for patch 2. Many crashes are caused by very specific league settings - crashes are not necessarily "hardware problems," and they won't be treated with the "it must be your computer" response unless all data points to that.

The best way to help is, in my opinion, to post individual threads in Tech Support detailing any problems you see. If you don't get a response immediately, you don't need to post threads everywhere saying the same thing.

If you haven't heard back on a tech support thread, feel free to gently bump it.

At the same time, I'd urge you to take one of two approaches:

1. Take a deep breath, shelf your emotion, and help post things in a constructive way, so that Marc and crew can best work on resolving them.

2. If you can't let go of your anger and frustration over a product that you are unhappy with, go do some kickboxing, play the drums, or whatever you do to relax. If you absolutely have to get your criticism of the game off your chest, PM it to Marc, or a friend from the boards. Don't start a new flame thread here screaming about how angry you are.

I'm not denying anyone's right to be frustrated or even angry if the product isn't working for them. But the total # of people working on this, including beta testers and so forth, is not that large, and there are limited hours in a day. Each bug needs to be reviewed, logged, prioritized, and then channeled through to Markus, who has limited time per day.

Every time that Marc, TC, or any of the moderators has to intervene in a thread that has gone off the deep end is time they're not spending working on fixing bugs. Case in point, my response here.

Anyway, my point is, you have a choice of being both frustrated and helpful, or you can be frustrated and also take resources away from working on the game by getting the forum all riled up.

I'm nowhere near the flaming camp in this debate, but this post reminds me of one point I keep forgetting to mention: the error-trapping in OOTP2006 is awful. A modern application should anticipate errors where possible with specific risks and deal with those properly in detail - and deal gracefully with unexpected errors. OOTP2006 too often just dumps you out, with a barely meaningful error message. FM is at least as complex an application, with an enormous database of teams, players, staff, competitions etc - but I haven't had it CTD in years.

thbroman · 06-14-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Every time that Marc, TC, or any of the moderators has to intervene in a thread that has gone off the deep end is time they're not spending working on fixing bugs. Case in point, my response here.

Sounds like you need another moderator or two. I'm serious. You and Marc Duffy shouldn't be running around, putting out fires like this.

Raidergoo · 06-14-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

I've been experiencing severe lag problems as well.

If you are simming an entire season in one swoop,set detail to normal, and turn off box scores and game logs.

I simmed 1964-1970 last night in ten minutes from an Arod/Garlon DB.

Caporegime · 06-14-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

If you are simming an entire season in one swoop,set detail to normal, and turn off box scores and game logs.

I simmed 1964-1970 last night in ten minutes from an Arod/Garlon DB.

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to try that.

I'll admit to being a royal hog when it comes to maintaining the highest level of detail possible & retaining box scores. However, considering the moribund rust-bucket I'm playing the game on, I'd gladly sacrifice detail for performance.

JimG · 06-14-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

If the game crashes for people, it is indeed "unplayable" for them, and fixing those sorts of things should (and probably will) be the absolute top priority for patch 2.

Unfortunately the last time I checked 'AI' was getting a lot more votes than 'Crashes' for the top priority in the Patch 2 poll. So I hope SI has the sense like you to make their game stable first.

06-14-2006, 08:23 AM	#23
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	I think what Cras was trying to say was "don't uninstall the game and give up". It was an urging to the disheartened to keep testing and to keep reporting issues, rather than just give up and uninstall the game. I think using words like "unplayable" without specifics just turns off people's ears, though. In my experience, it is unplayable for our league because of conversion issues, but I'm having a great time playing a solo career (with hiccups). I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that this was intended to be a pro OOTP 2006 post, not a bash. A "get out there and make the best baseball sim great again" cheer. But maybe I've just been testing this thing myself too much... As for the beta testers...I work in software. I know how impossible it is for a small QA staff to find every bug (especially when new builds are coming out every 5 minutes). The fact that the game came out with as few bugs as it has (not to mention a manual gasp) is a testament to their work. However, I do not understand why something this complex did not have a public beta. OOTP always has bugs that users find and post within the first week. Most of them are "obvious" bugs. If the game had simply come out in beta form first and gotten all these issues resolved in a patch or two, the rest of the stuff is just feature and interface enhancements for new releases. And just about everyone would have been extremely happy. Just my __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

06-14-2006, 12:14 PM	#28
alinkens All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CT Posts: 1,072	I have not played with it because I can't play online leagues yet.. __________________ Owner of the Coast to Coast League's Regina Pride

06-14-2006, 01:05 PM	#29
Caporegime All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Borough of Kings Posts: 1,714	I've been experiencing severe lag problems as well. However, my PC is as hopelessly obsolete as an Egyptian War Chariot pulled by velociraptors. I'm not sure if there's any piece of programming legerdemain that Markus can pull off that will make the game run smoothly on my Tin Lizzy of a PC. On the plus side, the game hasn't crashed once, so it's not exactly "unplayable" from that standpoint....it's just not as fun as I had hoped it would be, but that's a question of perception, I suppose. __________________ "If you don't know where you are going, you'll wind up someplace else." - Lawrence Peter Berra

06-14-2006, 01:31 PM	#30
jarmenia Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa, FL USA Posts: 4,503	I didn't think I'd ever see the day where I'd rather read the lunch thread in OT than the main OOTP forum. That day has finally come... __________________ When is good enough, good enough?

06-14-2006, 07:52 AM	#21
Smetana All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: West Virginia Posts: 1,071	Like the guy above me, I have rarely ever posted here. I've lurked for almost four years, but seldom have put my two cents in. But the last few weeks around here has me really irked. If I see one more person start a brand new thread simply for the purposes of claiming the game is "unplayable" or "completely broken", I swear I'm gonna' go crazy. There's no doubting this game has lots of issues right now. I, too, have been waiting patiently for two years for this release, as a long-time player of the OOTP games. But to call the game unplayable? Get serious. I've been playing non-stop since May 31. That's lots and lots of time dabbling and simming, creating universes, and pouring over reports and stats. And guess what? NO crashes to desktop. ZERO. No errors of any kind, and I'd have to say I've been pounding on the game, really giving it a workout. I honestly have to say to those experiencing these CTD's: It's your machine, not the game. Also, no game killers. Nothing--not a "feature" nor a "bug" that has made me turn the game off. Not once. No statistical anamolies to make me roll my eyes. And I'm no baseball newb--I've been an avid baseball man for almost thirty years. I know what the numbers should look like. I do see a myriad of minor issues that must be addressed. But we all know these things will be fixed to the best of Markus' abilities. He's always come through in the past. I'm not trying to come across as a fanboy. I am definitely not one of those. But the current state of this community is sickening. We even had one guy chastise Markus and Marc for taking a few days off to catch some World Cup action. Everybody needs some time off now and then, and I'd venture to guess Markus has had very little of that recently. So, to a lot of folks here, I say: Enjoy the game, patch it along the way, contribute constructively to further patching and enhancements, and live your life. If this game is the most important thing in the world to you, as it seems to be to many, then for goodness sake, you need to get out more... I'm through venting. In closing I'll just say that, IMHO, this game is not unplayable. But this forum certainly is becoming "unreadable."

06-14-2006, 08:19 AM	#22
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	I agree Cras is no troll. He has been a productive member of this community for as long as I can remember. The problem here is that calling the game unplayable just isn't correct. The game is very playable. I, like many others, have never had a single crash. I find the stats to be just fine. AI moves are a little questionable but they have been in every version of every baseball game ever made. So to call the game unplayable sounds like an unhappy second grader who deosn't get picked for a team. Making comments about the beta testers is just ignorant. I actually know since I am a beta tester for another game. So while I think it is Cras's intention to help the game, he is hurting it by making such broad generalizations and attacking the beta testers. There are more productive manners to go about it. But to lump him in with the real trolls is unfair.

06-14-2006, 09:45 AM	#24
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	If the game crashes for people, it is indeed "unplayable" for them, and fixing those sorts of things should (and probably will) be the absolute top priority for patch 2. Many crashes are caused by very specific league settings - crashes are not necessarily "hardware problems," and they won't be treated with the "it must be your computer" response unless all data points to that. The best way to help is, in my opinion, to post individual threads in Tech Support detailing any problems you see. If you don't get a response immediately, you don't need to post threads everywhere saying the same thing. If you haven't heard back on a tech support thread, feel free to gently bump it. At the same time, I'd urge you to take one of two approaches: 1. Take a deep breath, shelf your emotion, and help post things in a constructive way, so that Marc and crew can best work on resolving them. 2. If you can't let go of your anger and frustration over a product that you are unhappy with, go do some kickboxing, play the drums, or whatever you do to relax. If you absolutely have to get your criticism of the game off your chest, PM it to Marc, or a friend from the boards. Don't start a new flame thread here screaming about how angry you are. I'm not denying anyone's right to be frustrated or even angry if the product isn't working for them. But the total # of people working on this, including beta testers and so forth, is not that large, and there are limited hours in a day. Each bug needs to be reviewed, logged, prioritized, and then channeled through to Markus, who has limited time per day. Every time that Marc, TC, or any of the moderators has to intervene in a thread that has gone off the deep end is time they're not spending working on fixing bugs. Case in point, my response here. Anyway, my point is, you have a choice of being both frustrated and helpful, or you can be frustrated and also take resources away from working on the game by getting the forum all riled up.