No Trading Block? Player Offers?

[MizzouRah]

I love the shop player feature in 6.5, saves tons of time. Hopefully it'll be back at some point.

[JPFALCON]

It helps of course if you have trading frequency set to very high.....In the second week of January the REDS offered me Javier Valentin and $850.000 for Noah Lowry....it made sense for the Reds as they needed pitching but I declined the offer....

[AfWapo]

I am in complete agreement with the "shop player" option being left out of the game...at least how it was implemented in 6.5.

But I think there is a big difference between "shop player" and having a trade block. A trade block takes nothing away from realism... I think it actually does the opposite -- as most every team in real life can put the word out that they are actively shopping players.

Simply having a place to see what players are being shopped by other teams in no way makes things "easy." NOT having it, on the other hand makes trading very tedious.

[CaLíKrAzY]

One thing about trading or drafting Id like to see back is the brief team weaknesses thar were in OOTP3-6.5

Example: (teams from left to right, like in V6.5)

Los Angeles Angels
Weaknesses
Catcher
First Base
Left Field
Right Field
Bullpen

Instead of:

The Los Angeles Angels have a slight weakness at catcher, a weakness at first base, a weakness in left field, a slight weakness in right field
and a weakness in their bullpen.

Colorado Rockies
Weaknesses
Catcher
Second Base
Left Field
Center Field
Bullpen

The Colorado Rockies have a slight weakness at catcher a weakness at second base, a weakness in left field, a slight weakness in center field and a slight weakness in their bullpen.

ORANGE: Slight Weakness
RED: Glaring Weakness

Seems easier to get the information you want faster.

[Doibhilin]

At the same time, I realize that not everyone likes the tedium that "realism" can bring, so I'd be all for some sort of toggleable option or not-as-easy happy medium.

At first I was unhappy to find no shop player or trading block function, and then I realized how much more difficult trading is now. And, in a way, that's a good thing.

But it's really an artificial, not realistic, difficulty. It doesn't change which trades the AI will make, it only covers up some of the AI's problems. Realistically, a GM can get quick feedback on who he can get for a player. Ideally, we'd have a trade block/shop player function, but it wouldn't affect trading difficulty, because it wouldn't reveal potential stupid trades by the AI.

[Erithtotl]

I agree the way the weaknesses are written its very hard to read. As I've pointed out in other threads, I also don't like the fact that whatever I'm offering is cleared whenever I change what team I'm trading to.

The #1 thing removing all the different trade aids does is make it almost impossible to go at a trade from the point of view of trying to move someone. Most of the time I'm looking to move a player from my squad as much as obtain someone else. Without a trading block, or a shop player function or a 'I'll give you these guys for him' function, its almost impossible to do so.

I never found the shop player function as making things easy, because I noticed that the results were not as good as what you got when you actually went to the trade screen.

I'm also a little unsure on how the trade AI works. In my fictional league I had a 28 year old reliever on my roster who was arguably the best reliever in baseball (he was leading all relievers in innings, VORP, Ks, etc). He was signed to an expensive but not outrageous 6M /yr contract for two years. Because my team was in rebuilding mode it seemed a luxury I couldn't afford so I looked to trade him to a team that needed relief help or a closer. But the answer I got back from everyone was 'We aren't going to trade for any overpaid mediocre veterans'. Now sure, not everyone can afford an expensive reliever, in a league where teams are paying 12M a year for good starters, 6M for the best reliever in the game is hardly outrageous.

Now with the shop player function or something like it, I could at least see if ANYONE was interested in the guy, but as it is I would have to go to every team, add my player to the trade, then add every single player one at a time to their sideto see if anyone wants him, which is ridiculous.

The shop player function is supposed to simulate what happens in real life when a team makes it clear they are looking to move a player. They generally get worse than market value offers because they are looking to make a trade, but a good player should generate offers (ala Ron Artest this last season in the NBA).

[jasons957]

I loaded up two leagues. The first was the 1958 Dodgers. In this game, I get no offers. I have AAA loaded. No Commish mode. The second is the 2003 Dbacks. Both are historical Lahman loads. I didn't touch anything. I get tons of offers in this game for Schill and Gonzo. Is it just that nobody wants my 58 Dodgers? No one could use a 22 year old Koufax?

I was just wondering why I'd have two leagues and one I get lots of offers and in the other, I do not. (Note: My Trading Frequency and Favor Vets are Average and Normal in both.)

[Kyros]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I love the shop player feature in 6.5, saves tons of time. Hopefully it'll be back at some point.

I agree. "Shop Player" function was a nice feature to have as well as convenient.

[Icy]

I don't miss the "shop player" feature as i never used it in 6.5, but i really miss the trade block. As some have pointed, i should get most of the AI offers for the players in my trade block and not random offers for players i won't ever trade. Also i would like to see other's teams trade blocks to figure if i want any of those players and then i could start to make some offers. Right now we are totally blind and that is not realistic, in real life, managers know which players could be tradeable and they don't lose time sending each other offers for untouchable players.

Please bring back the trade block, it doesn't make any harm. It could be an array of players, then to add a screen with some drag&drop features to show and manage that trade block and then to add some conditions so the teams would make more offers for players in that trade block if the players are usefull for them. Markus can code that while drinking a beer and watching Germany lossing in the Eurocup.

[GabeRivers]

Originally Posted by Erithtotl

I agree the way the weaknesses are written its very hard to read. As I've pointed out in other threads, I also don't like the fact that whatever I'm offering is cleared whenever I change what team I'm trading to.

The #1 thing removing all the different trade aids does is make it almost impossible to go at a trade from the point of view of trying to move someone. Most of the time I'm looking to move a player from my squad as much as obtain someone else. Without a trading block, or a shop player function or a 'I'll give you these guys for him' function, its almost impossible to do so.

I never found the shop player function as making things easy, because I noticed that the results were not as good as what you got when you actually went to the trade screen.

I'm also a little unsure on how the trade AI works. In my fictional league I had a 28 year old reliever on my roster who was arguably the best reliever in baseball (he was leading all relievers in innings, VORP, Ks, etc). He was signed to an expensive but not outrageous 6M /yr contract for two years. Because my team was in rebuilding mode it seemed a luxury I couldn't afford so I looked to trade him to a team that needed relief help or a closer. But the answer I got back from everyone was 'We aren't going to trade for any overpaid mediocre veterans'. Now sure, not everyone can afford an expensive reliever, in a league where teams are paying 12M a year for good starters, 6M for the best reliever in the game is hardly outrageous.

Now with the shop player function or something like it, I could at least see if ANYONE was interested in the guy, but as it is I would have to go to every team, add my player to the trade, then add every single player one at a time to their sideto see if anyone wants him, which is ridiculous.

The shop player function is supposed to simulate what happens in real life when a team makes it clear they are looking to move a player. They generally get worse than market value offers because they are looking to make a trade, but a good player should generate offers (ala Ron Artest this last season in the NBA).

Great post. I came into this thread with the intention of posting comments along these very lines.

Personally, I got very little use from the trade block and shop player functions in prior OOTP versions, so I don't mind not having them here (although I'm puzzled by the step backward to remove them). But like Erithtotl, my normal approach to trading has always leaned heavily to trading away players, not trading for players.

The current OOTP'06 Trade Players sheet sort of looks like the same sheet in OOTP6, but it is far less functional. Right now, it's the thing I'm finding the most frustrating about the game.

Let me give a recent example. I started as a manager by first simming 4 seasons, and then picking the team with the worst record to manage. After studying my roster, one of the first tasks I wanted to pursue was to attempt to unload an aging, overpaid former star. Now mind you, it does not bother me that it turned out that no other GM wanted to touch this guy. What bugs me is that it took several hours just to figure that out.

In the OOTP6 format, you could go to the trade page, plant that guy on your side of the page, and then cycle thru each of the other teams easily studying their rosters, ratings, etc., and easily playing with various combinations in order to fashion trade proposals. Sometimes you could throw in other prospects and/or cash and get someone to bite, even if they started out saying the equivalent of: "I wouldn't touch that dungpile. He just eats $$$."

I'm guessing it might still be possible to accomplish a trade in that fashion, but I'd be until next week trying to find out. Try to negotiate with a new, different team and your slate of players you are offering is cleared away. You have to reload them each time. Now try to evaluate guys you might be interested in on the other team. You have to either open up each player individually, or leave the trade screen, go to their roster, examine their ratings, then try to remember (or write down) guys you might be interested in, before hopefully returning to where you were on the trade screen.

Far too tedious. Perhaps some of you OOTP'06 pros can tell me what I'm missing?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by AfWapo

I am in complete agreement with the "shop player" option being left out of the game...at least how it was implemented in 6.5.

But I think there is a big difference between "shop player" and having a trade block. A trade block takes nothing away from realism... I think it actually does the opposite -- as most every team in real life can put the word out that they are actively shopping players.

Simply having a place to see what players are being shopped by other teams in no way makes things "easy." NOT having it, on the other hand makes trading very tedious.

When does "realistic" and "text sim" come to pass? Are you playing one game a day like IRL? Are you able to tell your star 3B that he can have a steak dinner tonight instead of chicken? This is a GAME and nothing close to real life baseball. It's for fun, for doing things you wish your favorite team GM or Manager did. Shop a player has been around since the days of FPS and worked well in 6.51a. Who wants to ask every friggin team what they would give up for a certain player?

I'll continue to play 6.51a, but I hope some of the nice things in 6.51a are added back into 2006.

[redmarkYankees]

Originally Posted by JPFALCON

In attempting to design this game following the Football Manager model, it is a shame that some of the niceties of OOTP6 have been removed....

Don't think you can blame FM - 'shop player' is an option in FM, as are transfer lists (equivalent of trade block).

[orwell]

Originally Posted by AfWapo

I think a league-wide trade block is an essential element of solo-leagues. This should be a top priority for patch #1.

No kidding. Not having a trading block or other way to shop a player is one giant leap backwards.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

The shop player around feature in 6.5 was also pretty broken and would suggest some downright stupid trades and some trades that were complete steals.

If it does make a return lets hope it at least has some semblence of common sense.

Perhaps instead of the "trading block" which as far as I know isn't something that players are actually put on in real leagues, perhaps having managers release to the news people they'd like to move would be more realistic. One of the things about the FM series I do like. Honestly I'd like to see more media interaction in general.

[Killing Time]

Originally Posted by orwell

No kidding. Not having a trading block or other way to shop a player is one giant leap backwards.

Ditto. I was going to write something like that myself.

[Sax332n86]

What is this football game you guys are referring to?


And do you mean REAL football, *NOT SOCCER*

I'd love an out of the park football based on the NFL. But I wouldn't play a soccer simulation if you put a gun to my head!

Originally Posted by trapper

After getting used to the Football Manager system, I think it can be argued that trading in OOTP6.5 was too easy. So I think this was a design decision that may be warranted. But by all means, lets have it back as an option. Something like "easy trading on."

[PSUColonel]

To me the solution would be this....rather than being transfer listed (ala FM) in this version you become" trade bait",or are on the "trading block". this way you don't have that stupid list like in other versions, payers are just considered to be "bait"...perhaps denoted with a tab next to their name. then when searching players with filters, one can be to view "trade bait" players.

[onnel]

No, he meant real football, not *American* Football

And it's your loss not to try it, as it is simply the best text-based sports sim out there bar none. Any sports fan owes it to themself to try it.

Back OT: I'm happy to have the "shop player" gone, but some form of trading block where you can make it clear that oyu are looking to move a player and are interested in offers is a must.

Onnel

Originally Posted by Sax332n86

What is this football game you guys are referring to?


And do you mean REAL football, *NOT SOCCER*

[Icy]

Comparing FM with OOTP, in FM you can designate a player as available for transfers, and once you put that tag on him, the AI teams know that you want to transfer him and you start to receive offers (of course if the players is useful for them). Not only that, in FM you can also put an "untouchable" tag in a player so not any team would ask you for a posible transfer for that player.

I whish we could have the same for OOTP so both Human and Computer teams could make public the players that are not in the GM plans and that could be traded away. It would save a lot of time for the Human GM's and also would avoid the CPU teams offering you trades for players that are untouchable in your team.

[Sax332n86]

"Real football" ?


Real football is played with pads and helmets. Fans aren't "treated" to thrilling 1-0 matches, following which half the crowd riots and kills the other half.

OOTP bunch, PLEASE give us an NFL simulation. I love the franchise mode in Madden football, but its not as deep as OOTP's games by a longshot.

Originally Posted by onnel

No, he meant real football, not *American* Football

And it's your loss not to try it, as it is simply the best text-based sports sim out there bar none. Any sports fan owes it to themself to try it.

Back OT: I'm happy to have the "shop player" gone, but some form of trading block where you can make it clear that oyu are looking to move a player and are interested in offers is a must.

Onnel