VOTE: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1968 - Page 2

metsgeek · 04-11-2006, 07:01 PM

Stuart
Arsenault
Lee
Ormiston
Arrendale
Johnson
Giordano
McMurray
Allen, Jr.
Ulrich

chowbeng · 04-11-2006, 09:35 PM

Bourbon Allen Jr.
Ted McMurray

marc · 04-12-2006, 01:35 AM

Ugh, a resounding "No" for Nunez again...

canadiancreed · 04-12-2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

Ugh, a resounding "No" for Nunez again...

he's got a tough group to go against.

Matt jsut an idea but what about a preview of whose new for the next year when you tally up the stats?

canadiancreed · 04-12-2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

8/11 so far for Teddie...it's going to be close...

too close for my liking

jeheinz72 · 04-12-2006, 09:16 AM

13/16 for Ted now. That's 81%. We usually get what 24ish votes? He needs 5 of 8 if that's the case. I think he's very deserving...

canadiancreed · 04-12-2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

13/16 for Ted now. That's 81%. We usually get what 24ish votes? He needs 5 of 8 if that's the case. I think he's very deserving...

wonder if anyone will play the ït's because he's a Red" card

then again I'm one to talk....

jeheinz72 · 04-12-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

wonder if anyone will play the ït's because he's a Red" card

then again I'm one to talk....

I don't support him really because he's a Red, I just maybe know more about him because he is/was. I only had him for 1 season anyhow. A ROTY, a BOY, 5 GG's, 2 Titles, leader of the team, great stats, 8-time AS. Solid credentials...

Chappy · 04-12-2006, 10:42 AM

Stuart (for his glove)
Lee
Ormiston
Arrendale
McMurray
Allen Jr.

ifspuds · 04-12-2006, 11:37 AM

Something else I'd like to see is how many years a player has left on this ballot. If there's a candidate on the bubble who's coming up on his final year before going to the Veteran's Committee, I'd like to be able to do some promoting.

Y0DA55 · 04-12-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifspuds

Something else I'd like to see is how many years a player has left on this ballot. If there's a candidate on the bubble who's coming up on his final year before going to the Veteran's Committee, I'd like to be able to do some promoting.

I would like to have spuds do some promoting for final year guys too.

jdw · 04-12-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MogulChamp

McMurray

Wow. I would think that if someone was going to cut this down to just one selection, it with be this guy:

ERA
1950-5-3.42
1951-5-3.19
1952-3-2.81
1953-3-2.52
1954-3-3.03
1955-2-2.45
1956-1-2.26
1957-1-2.09
1958-1-2.21
1959-3-2.96

He was an All Pro like clockwork back in the 50s when we did the annual year end ballots.

It's funny... but at the time, Bourbon Jr. was the more respected and highly thought of player than McMurray. I honestly doubt there would have been any moment in the 50s when, other things being equal, anyone would have been willing to part with Bourbon straight up for McMurray.

Other than perhaps Chris simply for the ancestor tie in.

I happen to be Teddie's #2 Fan behind Chris, and am happy he's on the path to the HOF. But Bourbon was on another planet in their careers.

John

DamnYankees · 04-12-2006, 05:45 PM

I dunno, John. I agree that Bourbon was probbaly more valuable, but Teddy was incredibly well thought of by us all - he may have been the most popular player in baseball. He just has "it".

I actually think McMurray is one of those guys who's stats make him a marginal HOFer, but based on persona he's a total lock. He was popular as all get-out, and I think just as highly thought of as Bourbon. No disrespect to him.

jdw · 04-12-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

I dunno, John. I agree that Bourbon was probbaly more valuable, but Teddy was incredibly well thought of by us all - he may have been the most popular player in baseball. He just has "it".

I tend to think Kress was the most populat player in baseball, even without the Press pimping him (and lord knows I pimped Teddie).

We can take a look at Ted's All Pro placements among the voters through the years. They aren't remotely close to Mo's, let alone Kress' streak that was only broken with injury. While we could argue how "popular" Mo was, the reality is that he was incredibly "respected" and highly thought of.

Ted actually had a bit less "respect" in the league than Chaucer. While Ted is younger and his salad days are fresher in our minds, he just wasn't in his prime held to that "it" that Chaucer and Howard and Wing had in the league right before him, and Kress did in the other league. And by the time Ted was reaching his peak, we were starting to get into the Silcox period.

Quote:

I actually think McMurray is one of those guys who's stats make him a marginal HOFer, but based on persona he's a total lock. He was popular as all get-out, and I think just as highly thought of as Bourbon. No disrespect to him.

Honestly... he wasn't that wildly popular. It's one reason Chris and I kept beating the drume for him.

But in the era, Samoa Ben and Bobby Johnson were in that same general class - in any given year, one of them was the best in the NL at 1B. It really wasn't the case of Chaucer just being head and shoulders above the rest.

Sadly... when one comps Lonny to Ted, one finds Lonny doesn't really take a backseat at all. Sad for Lonny... since he's being largely fogotten come HOF voting time. I'm a Ted Fan, but if you ask me point blank if he's better than Lonny... I couldn't honestly say "yes". They are so damn close.

John

DamnYankees · 04-12-2006, 06:28 PM

I don't see how All-Prop votes have anything to do with popularity. Those are just measures of output and skill, and yes, respect.

But it doesn't measure how much you liked someone. I think Teddie was like Hodges, just a better player. Certain players are just liked and embraced by people, and I felt that way about Teddie, that everyone just liked him, liked seeing him succeed. He struck me as the kind of player who got a applause in every stadium.

haggis007 · 04-12-2006, 07:56 PM

Allen Jr
Stell
Lee
Misisca
Ormiston
McMurray
Arsenault
Johnson
Arrendale
Stuart

Ankhiel · 04-12-2006, 08:13 PM

Al Arsenault
Ted McMurray

metsgeek · 04-12-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

I dunno, John. I agree that Bourbon was probbaly more valuable, but Teddy was incredibly well thought of by us all - he may have been the most popular player in baseball. He just has "it".

I, for one, didn't hold him in ultra-high regard. I was honestly at a loss as to why people were tooting his horn so much. creed doing it, I could understand, but he didn't seem to be in the elite echelon to me. He's good, and I voted for him, but he makes it by the skin of his teeth, IMHO.

Not even close to Kress....and I think Arrendale was a bit better.

MogulChamp · 04-12-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw

Wow. I would think that if someone was going to cut this down to just one selection, it with be this guy:

ERA
1950-5-3.42
1951-5-3.19
1952-3-2.81
1953-3-2.52
1954-3-3.03
1955-2-2.45
1956-1-2.26
1957-1-2.09
1958-1-2.21
1959-3-2.96

He was an All Pro like clockwork back in the 50s when we did the annual year end ballots.

It's funny... but at the time, Bourbon Jr. was the more respected and highly thought of player than McMurray. I honestly doubt there would have been any moment in the 50s when, other things being equal, anyone would have been willing to part with Bourbon straight up for McMurray.

Other than perhaps Chris simply for the ancestor tie in.

I happen to be Teddie's #2 Fan behind Chris, and am happy he's on the path to the HOF. But Bourbon was on another planet in their careers.

John

Well to be honest both are marginal however I feel that McMurray is more deserving.

Allen only has 206 career wins. He doesn't rank in the career top 25 in any statistical category. He had a couple of great seasons, but of all those great seasons he only won 1 POY award.

McMurray had the BOY award, Rookie of the Year, played tremendous defense and ranks in the top 25 in career HR. One of the best First Basemen ever.

Allen is not one of the best pitchers ever. There's a lot of pitchers I would take before Allen.

During the era when he played guys like Simson, Sardina, Gwaltney and heck, even Helton were much better pitchers. Head and shoulders above Allen. Those guys belong in the Hall, not Allen.

This is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Very Good or the Most Popular or the Hall of the Nice Guys.

Sorry but the numbers don't lie.

DamnYankees · 04-12-2006, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsgeek

I, for one, didn't hold him in ultra-high regard. I was honestly at a loss as to why people were tooting his horn so much. creed doing it, I could understand, but he didn't seem to be in the elite echelon to me. He's good, and I voted for him, but he makes it by the skin of his teeth, IMHO.

Not even close to Kress....and I think Arrendale was a bit better.

Of course they were better. But this is like Gil Hodges - I just think people loved him. This has nothing to do with talent.

04-11-2006, 07:01 PM	#21
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	Stuart Arsenault Lee Ormiston Arrendale Johnson Giordano McMurray Allen, Jr. Ulrich __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!

04-11-2006, 09:35 PM	#22
chowbeng Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 42	Bourbon Allen Jr. Ted McMurray Last edited by chowbeng; 04-11-2006 at 09:36 PM.

04-12-2006, 09:16 AM	#26
jeheinz72 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 2,164	13/16 for Ted now. That's 81%. We usually get what 24ish votes? He needs 5 of 8 if that's the case. I think he's very deserving... __________________ Join The Dugout!

04-12-2006, 10:42 AM	#29
Chappy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,721	Stuart (for his glove) Lee Ormiston Arrendale McMurray Allen Jr. __________________ NPBL - Pennsylvania Freedom AFBL - North Carolina Aviators MLB-Pro - Kansas City Royals

04-12-2006, 11:37 AM	#30
ifspuds Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 2,117	Something else I'd like to see is how many years a player has left on this ballot. If there's a candidate on the bubble who's coming up on his final year before going to the Veteran's Committee, I'd like to be able to do some promoting. __________________ Jeff Watson Former dynasty writer and online league player, now mostly retired

04-12-2006, 01:35 AM	#23
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	Ugh, a resounding "No" for Nunez again...

04-12-2006, 05:45 PM	#33
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	I dunno, John. I agree that Bourbon was probbaly more valuable, but Teddy was incredibly well thought of by us all - he may have been the most popular player in baseball. He just has "it". I actually think McMurray is one of those guys who's stats make him a marginal HOFer, but based on persona he's a total lock. He was popular as all get-out, and I think just as highly thought of as Bourbon. No disrespect to him.

04-12-2006, 06:28 PM	#35
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	I don't see how All-Prop votes have anything to do with popularity. Those are just measures of output and skill, and yes, respect. But it doesn't measure how much you liked someone. I think Teddie was like Hodges, just a better player. Certain players are just liked and embraced by people, and I felt that way about Teddie, that everyone just liked him, liked seeing him succeed. He struck me as the kind of player who got a applause in every stadium.

04-12-2006, 07:56 PM	#36
haggis007 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 115	Allen Jr Stell Lee Misisca Ormiston McMurray Arsenault Johnson Arrendale Stuart Last edited by haggis007; 04-12-2006 at 07:58 PM.

04-12-2006, 08:13 PM	#37
Ankhiel Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 470	Al Arsenault Ted McMurray __________________ GM - TWB Expos Join the fun