BeanJohnnyDamon.com - Page 2

jmaness84 · 04-11-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC Dale

I still don't see the Yankees winning a lot of titles. Steinbrenner still doesn't understand the minors and still goes for the quick fix. I mean the Mets are better this year, so to compete against the crosstown rivals, but to make the team a real dynasty again, they have to develop some of that talent don't you think?

They will always be able to buy talent as long as their payroll is over twice as much as the average team. So there is no need to develop talent.

TonyJ · 04-11-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaness84

They will always be able to buy talent as long as their payroll is over twice as much as the average team. So there is no need to develop talent.

Except that approach doesn't work. The core of the World Series winning Yankees team was Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettite, etc., all home grown. Sure, it was augmented by talent that other teams couldn't afford, but the notion that they "bought" those titles is simply not true. The only true mercinary winner in recent years that I can think of was the first Marlins World Series team.

QuestGAV · 04-11-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Except that approach doesn't work. The core of the World Series winning Yankees team was Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettite, etc., all home grown. Sure, it was augmented by talent that other teams couldn't afford, but the notion that they "bought" those titles is simply not true. The only true mercinary winner in recent years that I can think of was the first Marlins World Series team.

It wasn't necessarily a mercenary team but the Red Sox championship squad drafted and developed very few of their players. It's one of those things we conveniently forgot as Red Sox fans when we're ranting about the Yankees. We even dealt Nomahhhh!

jmaness84 · 04-11-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Except that approach doesn't work. The core of the World Series winning Yankees team was Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettite, etc., all home grown. Sure, it was augmented by talent that other teams couldn't afford, but the notion that they "bought" those titles is simply not true. The only true mercinary winner in recent years that I can think of was the first Marlins World Series team.

Well on their 96 team I don't even belive Posada was on the team. Besides Jeter, G. Williams, B. Williams, Rivera, Mendoza, and Pettite all of their main players were "bought".

QuestGAV · 04-11-2006, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaness84

Well on their 96 team I don't even belive Posada was on the team. Besides Jeter, G. Williams, B. Williams, Rivera, Mendoza, and Pettite all of their main players were "bought".

Since you just named all of their main players I'm not sure what your point is.

PotatoPeeler · 04-11-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC Dale

Since the curse is gone, you would think that the Red Sox faithful would join the 20th century and all... it is asking too much for them to join us all in 2006, so last century might be doable right?

Babe Ruth is dead, so is the curse. Time to join the rest of us!

I've always felt that the Sox winning the Series effectively stripped the club of any identity they had. I think a lot of the fans, in some twisted sort of way, enjoyed the stigma of the loveable losers and they seem unwilling to let go of that part of their history. Bill Simmons is a prime example of this.

jmaness84 · 04-11-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Since you just named all of their main players I'm not sure what your point is.

Hmm I left off 4 out of their 5 starters. I left off their closer. Not to mention 7 players off their everyday lineup. Thats my point. Also some bench players who contributed quite a bit.... Strawberry, Fielder, Hayes, Sierra, and Tim Raines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Since you just named all of their main players I'm not sure what your point is.

I'm sure without all of those players I mentioned that Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, and Andy Pettite could have won the World Series. Afterall Jeter is clutch!

mlyons · 04-11-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaness84

Hmm I left off 4 out of their 5 starters. I left off their closer. Not to mention 7 players off their everyday lineup. Thats my point. Also some bench players who contributed quite a bit.... Strawberry, Fielder, Hayes, Sierra, and Tim Raines.

Of course, most of those players were acquired by trading players the Yankees had developed, so I'm not sure what the point is here.

jmaness84 · 04-11-2006, 10:05 PM

I would much rather have the 96 Indians core players. Albert Belle,Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Omar Vizquel, Sandy Alomar Jr, Carlos Baerga, Kenny Lofton, and Brian Giles. How many World Series have the Indians won?

jmaness84 · 04-11-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

Of course, most of those players were acquired by trading players the Yankees had developed, so I'm not sure what the point is here.

Oh I don't mean to argue that the Yankees cannot develop talent. I just meant that their teams were bought and yes a lot of their players were acquired by trade. However....most trades are driven by financial issues. Not because of the abundance of minor league talent that they had. My whole purpose of this is that I believe the Yankees will always be on the top of their division because of their payroll and that it is not essential for the the Yanks to develop the next Albert Pujols to win.

mlyons · 04-11-2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaness84

Oh I don't mean to argue that the Yankees cannot develop talent. I just meant that their teams were bought and yes a lot of their players were acquired by trade. However....most trades are driven by financial issues. Not because of the abundance of minor league talent that they had.

The only major factor in the '96-'00 team who was acquired via salary dump that I can think of was Chuck Knoblauch (who wasn't on the '96 team). Who else was?

draven085 · 04-12-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC Dale

Dang I hate when someone posts something before I can... This was SO obvious a response..

Since the curse is gone, you would think that the Red Sox faithful would join the 20th century and all... it is asking too much for them to join us all in 2006, so last century might be doable right?

Babe Ruth is dead, so is the curse. Time to join the rest of us!

FYI most Red Sox fans did not attribute the Sox postseason failures prior to 2004 to any sort of curse. In fact the entire concept of 'The Curse' is more of a media creation than anything. The mainstream idea of 'The Curse' did not appear until Boston Globe writer/professional asshat Dan Shaughnessy published the book Curse of the Bambino in 1990. So while it may seem amusing and it's certainly easier to paint Sox fans as superstitious morons who are obsessed with The Babe the fact of the matter is that it just isn't true. Nice try though.

jackson41 · 04-12-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imation

So that would be what? 95% of Red Sox fans?

As a Red Sox fan in Maine I try to avoid talking about the Sox as I find I can't stand most Red Sox fans. I guess I think of myself as a baseball fan first and most of Red Sox nation is die hard fans that live and breath Red Sox but don't know much about baseball in general.

I was standing outside my daughters school the day after Damon signed witht the Yankees and two moms were discussing it. The quote was somthing like, there is no loyalty in sports anymore. I had to bite my lip to stop myself from pointing out that if Damon had any loyalty he would be playing CF for KC and the only reason he was in Boston was because they offered him the most money, just like the Yankees did now.

As far as Damon, I think he is highly overrated and the Yankees are overpaying him. I would rather have Crisp, or about 15 other OF over Damon.

TonyJ · 04-12-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaness84

I'm sure without all of those players I mentioned that Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, and Andy Pettite could have won the World Series. Afterall Jeter is clutch!

Except that (and add in Posada since he was on that team) that was the core of the team. And it was a great core, I would take it anyday. Watson was then shrewd enough to trade for or sign (inexpensively) enough supporting talent to win. No team is going to be able to develop a full championship team using only their minors, you have to get help elsewhere to support your core group and the Yankees did that. What they did not do was "buy" a championship. In the past few years, the Boss has gotten taken with the big name/big money approach again and, guess what, they haven't been winning championships.

darkhorse · 04-12-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

I don't think people realize just how much of a crapshoot the postseason is in baseball.

I don't wanna be aadik about it, but mebbe this fella is aware.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/member.php?u=671

KILLERBS24 · 04-13-2006, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaness84

I would much rather have the 96 Indians core players. Albert Belle,Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Omar Vizquel, Sandy Alomar Jr, Carlos Baerga, Kenny Lofton, and Brian Giles. How many World Series have the Indians won?

Vizquel, Alomar and Lofton weren't products of the Indians system. And Giles was never a core player, he only had 120ABs in 96. The reason the Indians never won is because of the position that you didn't name, pitching. The Indians pitching was bad. They had 6 guys start most of the games in 96, 3 were homegrown, Charles Nagy, Chad Ogea, and Albie Lopez, that pretty much explains right there why they didn't win. Nagy had a good year, but the only reason the rest of the pitchers won games that year was the offense was great.

jmaness84 · 04-14-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

Vizquel, Alomar and Lofton weren't products of the Indians system. And Giles was never a core player, he only had 120ABs in 96. The reason the Indians never won is because of the position that you didn't name, pitching. The Indians pitching was bad. They had 6 guys start most of the games in 96, 3 were homegrown, Charles Nagy, Chad Ogea, and Albie Lopez, that pretty much explains right there why they didn't win. Nagy had a good year, but the only reason the rest of the pitchers won games that year was the offense was great.

You are right. My bad

whitesoxs01 · 04-16-2006, 09:10 PM

excellent point about Damon, who would have been a Royal, but they couldn't offer him enough money.

The fact is the Yankees don't win, not because they have no minors, but they are bad when it comes to spending money. "Investing" in old players like Kevin Brown, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, Brosius, and a few other players over their lack of a run. While other teams have gone out and got the younger players.

Their spending money stragey will work, it will just take some change in the way they spend it, more 30 year olds and less 35+ year olds and they should be fine.

disposableheros · 04-16-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitesoxs01

excellent point about Damon, who would have been a Royal, but they couldn't offer him enough money.

The fact is the Yankees don't win, not because they have no minors, but they are bad when it comes to spending money. "Investing" in old players like Kevin Brown, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, Brosius, and a few other players over their lack of a run. While other teams have gone out and got the younger players.

Their spending money stragey will work, it will just take some change in the way they spend it, more 30 year olds and less 35+ year olds and they should be fine.

the Yankees dont win? are you out of your mind?

mlyons · 04-16-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

the Yankees dont win? are you out of your mind?

Four teams have won the World Series since the last time the Yankees did!!11!1 That's more than one out of every eight teams!!!1111! It's a disaster!!!!11

04-11-2006, 10:05 PM	#29
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	I would much rather have the 96 Indians core players. Albert Belle,Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Omar Vizquel, Sandy Alomar Jr, Carlos Baerga, Kenny Lofton, and Brian Giles. How many World Series have the Indians won?

04-16-2006, 09:10 PM	#38
whitesoxs01 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 37	excellent point about Damon, who would have been a Royal, but they couldn't offer him enough money. The fact is the Yankees don't win, not because they have no minors, but they are bad when it comes to spending money. "Investing" in old players like Kevin Brown, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, Brosius, and a few other players over their lack of a run. While other teams have gone out and got the younger players. Their spending money stragey will work, it will just take some change in the way they spend it, more 30 year olds and less 35+ year olds and they should be fine.