Bret Boone DFA

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Only thing Bellhorn can do is walk, and hit the occasional homerun.

But Boone can't even do that anymore.

[TotalEnd98]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Only thing Bellhorn can do is walk, and hit the occasional homerun.

I'd still much rather have Boone on my team then Bellhorn any day.

They have the same BA. Bellhorn's OBP is 44 points higher, Boone's SLG is only 5 points higher. Bellhorn's WARP3 is 3.9, Boone's is 2.4. Bellhorn's EQA is .257, Boone's is .241. And, as noted above, Bellhorn's fielding is even superior.

So, to be more precise, the "only thing Bellhorn can do" is outperform Boone in practically every way.

[SanDiegoPadres19]

My bet is he is traded to the Dodgers and switches to 3b, or Kent moves over to 3b.

[Johnny Slick]

Originally Posted by randomlefty10

I have NO IDEA why, but it happened.

Because he sucks? That's my guess.

[IatricSB]

Roids withdrawal claims another

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

This franchise is in "freefall" since 2003 (late season collapse number 2). Poor front off management's decision making has led to this clubs demise. What looked like a perennial winner in 2001 has been allowed to deteriorate due to lack of vision by upper management's unwillingness to: (1) bring in key players at the trading deadline in 2002 and 2003 and (2) over-value a weak farm system's pitching and undervalue the need for developing position players!

I am not sure what can be done to make this team competitive anytime soon? Clearly bringing in Sexson and Beltre was not the answer to this clubs offensive woes. Perhaps it is the lack of a club house leader that has been lacking since the Griffey/Buhner era. With Boone gone this team will truly lack 'heart'. I expect another 90-99 loss season

[Johnny Slick]

A couple points:

I think it is high time we Mariners fans stopped looking at the 1990s like a golden age and started seeing it for what it was: one of the biggest, perhaps THE biggest wastes of an opportunity of all time. At one point, this team had Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Randy Johnson, Jay Buhner, and Edgar Martinez on the same squad. That's 4 probably HOFers and a 5th guy who was very, very solid. And what did they do? Management couldn't solve simple problems with the bullpen until it was too late, lowballed Randy Johnson until he got too pissed to accept anything from the M's (and tried to do the same with Gar, though fortunately his agent manged to cut through enough of the BS in time), and pissed away what had been a pretty good farm system in 1995 to get virtually nothing in return. Woody Woodward has to rank as one of the all-time biggest bonehead GMs.

As for 2001, that was the end of the era, not the beginning. IMO the M's problems were rooted not so much in not cashing in their bare cupboard of farm resources to land an extra rent-a-player or two in '02 and '03, it was in thinking that the team's window hadn't closed when it really had. I'm going to look at the 2001 roster position by position for a moment and explain this in excruciating detail:

C - Dan Wilson. He was a decent enough catcher in the mid-to-late 90s, never a guy you'd consider the best in baseball or anything, but solid. Even by 2001, though, he'd started to turn into crap. The team badly needed to start looking for replacements in 1998 or 1999, not make a half-assed attempt at giving a busted prospect (Ben Davis) a look and then finally in 2004 picking up another youngster. Is it any real shock that the position is a complete minus now?

1B - John Olerud aged quicker than I'd expected him to, but he was also 32 in 2001 and should not have been expected to be an underrated first sacker for that much longer.

2B - I know I'll take some heat for saying this, but Pat Gillick flat-out got lucky with Boonie. That's all it was. Luck. Boone was awful with the stick before he joined the M's, he turned into Luis Gonzalez for a couple years, and then went right back to being Bret Boone. Nobody should have been surprised that this happened (and yes, I know I'm the guy who started the Boone for HOF thread). Frankly, I am rather amazed in retrospect that he came as close as he did to fulfilling his contract.

3B - David Bell, who wasn't very good himself, gave way to Jeff Cirillo, who was awful. I guess it was a pretty big surprise that he'd be THAT bad, but this was a guy who was hitting around .270 with no power outside of Coors Field when the M's picked him up. He could have been better defensively here too, but all in all I think Gillick was expecting a B+ player when he should have been expecting a C one. That he got a D guy is a disappointment, but not exactly a bolt out of the blue.

SS - Letting Carlos Guillen go for Rich Aurilia was pure, unadulterated stupidity. I'm not saying I could have predicted that Guillen would suddenly look like the best 2nd tier shortstop in the AL upon entering Detroit. What I am saying is that Rich Aurilia sucked and has sucked for years. And was at an age where you tend to want to avoid middle infielders like the plague.

LF - As crappy as Al Martin was, this is pretty much the only position I can see where the team actually got better from '01 to the final collapse last year.

CF - I love Mike Cameron. Management hated him his entire time here. He's a solid player in the classic Ken Phelps mode, but with better defense and speed and less power. As such, Gillick kept whining that he struck out too much and let the middle of the outfield wide open. Speaking of which, Ichiro Suzuki strikes me as a guy who could play center reasonably well. Oh yeah, I forgot: Ichiro is a Right Fielder. RFs don't play CF!!!

RF - Ichiro was Ichiro then and is Ichiro now: a good, solid player who is not going to be able to single-handedly keep a team from sucking, but who will receive an inordinate amount of credit if they don't suck.

DH - How the f'ing hell can a 38 year old getting old be a surprise to anybody? Again, I was shocked he lasted as long as he did. And who was the ad wizards who thought that Buckyclutch Jacobsen and Scott Spiezio were anything more than a quick fix?

Bench - Stan Javier, Mark McLemore, Tom Lampkin, Jay Buhner. Hell of a bench. Hell of an OLD bench.

SP - One flat-out bust (Piniero), one old guy who *gasp* got old (Moyer), and a bunch more people who just weren't that good. Oh, and Freddy Garcia, who finally got moved in just about the only plus trade I've seen this team make since they traded Mark Langston to the Expos.

RP - Again, how can it be considered a shock that Kaz Sasaki wasn't going to be around for more than a couple of years? Closer is pretty much the only position I see besides LF where the M's did replace parts effectively. Of course, closer is probably the most overrated position of all. Middle relief was solid then (after Woodward sold off the entire farm to make it so) but middle relief is never something you can rely on from season to season.

Final verdict: Take a look at the 1997 Baltimore Orioles and tell me how the 2001 Seattle Mariners were different. And they're FINALLY emerging from the basement after 7 years...

[randomlefty10]

Pretty much completely agree with that entire post. although I share management's view of Mike Cameron and I doubt anyone could convince the Ms made a mistake letting him go.

Trading Carlos Guillen was dumb, but it was hindsight dumb, the guy never could, and still can't, stay healthy. His injuries were becoming a liability.

I'm glad to see Boone go, I just really hope they get SOMETHING out of it. As continues though, I'll delude myself into being optimistic about the team's future.

Catcher is a big question mark, but they have plenty of options, hopefully one of Olivo, Rivera, Clement, Christenson will pan out to be decent.

I like Sexson at first, gives them what they've been missing since Buhner left.
I like Lopez at second, good position for him and he shows good promise with the bat.
I like Morse at short, good defense so far and some great maturity. Way better plate approach than I expected.
Beltre at third still is a great signing.
?? in left, should be Snelling since we need to have a corner OF actually hit for power. Trade Winn.
Reed in center, great D and adequate bat. Should be stealing more, should be a solid 7 or 8 hitter.
Ichiro in right. Nothing to say here.
?? as DH. Could use another big bat. Ibanez is ok, but no more than that.

The lineup looks great to me, free of the 33+ crowd and full of energy. It's the damn pitching that sucks and except for Felix I see little help coming in the rotation. Bullpen is and should continue to be good. Perhaps they could move Villone, Mateo, Soriano into the rotation. Pineiro has the stuff to be plus good if he can find it and Meche could be at the same level if he gets his control under, well, control.

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by randomlefty10

The lineup looks great to me, free of the 33+ crowd and full of energy. It's the damn pitching that sucks and except for Felix I see little help coming in the rotation.

Have you been paying attention? They have the 14th ranked runs scored in the AL. That's dead last!! Pitching ain't great but it is at least as good as the A's, Indians and Tigers. Unfortunately the M's Umm offense(?) cannot compete, with most Al teams.

Why is it that allot of Mariner fans think that Chris Snelling will become a 30 homer guy? What has he shown at the Major league level? Besides getting hurt? You want to replace Ibanez?? He is the 3rd most effective hitter on the team!

Pitching is not the problem! It is lack of "clutch" hitting and lack of leadership in the club house.

I would like to see them get a power hitting outfielder and one or two guys step up and tak eon the leadership role. These guys are playing like they are waiting for next year already!

I am continually amazed at how this club still draws crowds of over 20-30K! Though attendancce is down this year yet again as it was last year, they are still getting more fans than the utterly disinterested ball they play deserves! Must be the ballpark cause it ain't the team.

[Johnny Slick]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

Have you been paying attention? They have the 14th ranked runs scored in the AL. That's dead last!! Pitching ain't great but it is at least as good as the A's, Indians and Tigers. Unfortunately the M's Umm offense(?) cannot compete, with most Al teams.

The M's also play in Safeco, which right now is making Joel Piniero (complete SOC) and Ryan Franklin (SOC, but not as complete as Piniero) look better than they are. For that matter, look at Gil Meche's and Aaron Sele's K/W ratio and tell me that that makes you feel good about the pitching staff.

Why is it that allot of Mariner fans think that Chris Snelling will become a 30 homer guy? What has he shown at the Major league level? Besides getting hurt? You want to replace Ibanez?? He is the 3rd most effective hitter on the team!

The way Ibanez fields, he ought to be the most effective hitter on the team. Personally I would rather start Snelling, not because he might hit 30 ding-dongs, but because the last thing I want to see is this team re-sign Raul.

Pitching is not the problem! It is lack of "clutch" hitting and lack of leadership in the club house.

CLUTCH HITTING!? WELL OKAY THEN DOUG GLANVILLE IS AVAILABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to see them get a power hitting outfielder and one or two guys step up and tak eon the leadership role. These guys are playing like they are waiting for next year already!

Look at the standings. This team is awful. They should be playing for next year (well, really 2007 or so, but you get the idea).

I am continually amazed at how this club still draws crowds of over 20-30K! Though attendancce is down this year yet again as it was last year, they are still getting more fans than the utterly disinterested ball they play deserves! Must be the ballpark cause it ain't the team.

Yep, the team sucks. They aren't going to contend just by "playing for this year." Nor should they try.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

The M's also play in Safeco, which right now is making Joel Piniero (complete SOC) and Ryan Franklin (SOC, but not as complete as Piniero) look better than they are. For that matter, look at Gil Meche's and Aaron Sele's K/W ratio and tell me that that makes you feel good about the pitching staff.

I'd say the pitching staff's inability to get people out is a direct result of Brian Price's (pitching coach) "Pitch to Contact" philosophy. Everyone's k/9 is well below their career averages, and it's precisely because Price seems to think it's better to let guys hit the ball than it is to strike them out. I think that if Price were to go, we'd see an improvement in the pitching. Not drastic, as they're still carrying crappy pitchers (Sele, Nelson, Franklin), but guys like Meche and Piniero are still young enough and have shown enough talent in the past to be above-average major league pitchers.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I am continually amazed at how this club still draws crowds of over 20-30K! Though attendancce is down this year yet again as it was last year, they are still getting more fans than the utterly disinterested ball they play deserves! Must be the ballpark cause it ain't the team.

Well, I can tell you that I go once per homestand because I do like watching guys like Reed and (now) Lopez. And also because the team is so bad, I can buy the cheapest tickets ($7) when I show up and then just move to a different part of the park. As much as I wish they were winning, I have enjoyed being able to sit in all different parts of the park for a relatively low price.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by billethius

I'd say the pitching staff's inability to get people out is a direct result of Brian Price's (pitching coach) "Pitch to Contact" philosophy. Everyone's k/9 is well below their career averages, and it's precisely because Price seems to think it's better to let guys hit the ball than it is to strike them out. I think that if Price were to go, we'd see an improvement in the pitching. Not drastic, as they're still carrying crappy pitchers (Sele, Nelson, Franklin), but guys like Meche and Piniero are still young enough and have shown enough talent in the past to be above-average major league pitchers.

I think you can blame it on Price, but not on the "pitch to contact" philosophy.

Franklin, Meche, Piniero not only saw their K numbers down this year, but all of their BB numbers are up at the same time. Not exactly "pitch to contact".

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Only thing Bellhorn can do is walk, and hit the occasional homerun.

I'd still much rather have Boone on my team then Bellhorn any day.

Sweet Jesus. The man had a .373 OBP last year with a .440-something SLG. He also hit almost 40 doubles. He was the 2nd best 2B in the AL last year.

You need to lay off the ESPN, man.

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Sweet Jesus.

Wrong player.

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

The man had a .373 OBP last year with a .440-something SLG. He also hit almost 40 doubles.

he also srutck out liek 616 time.. u proly tthink adam done is g-d

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

He was the 2nd best 2B in the AL last year.

You need to lay off the ESPN, man.

ops is not hte end and be all, d00d.

[Astros33Resurrected]

I say he goes to the Yanks. He may be struggling, but he's better than any option they have.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

I say he goes to the Yanks. He may be struggling, but he's better than any option they have.

Robinson Cano this season: .291/.316/.474
Boone: .231/.299/.385

Cano's better at every facet of the game than Boone is right now, and is only going to get better. Why on earth would they want Boone?

[TotalEnd98]

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

I say he goes to the Yanks. He may be struggling, but he's better than any option they have.

Er, except the guy they're playing right now. That is what you meant to say, right?

[randomlefty10]

Because the Yankees can't field well and Boone, is a very good 2B?

[randomlefty10]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

Have you been paying attention? They have the 14th ranked runs scored in the AL. That's dead last!! Pitching ain't great but it is at least as good as the A's, Indians and Tigers. Unfortunately the M's Umm offense(?) cannot compete, with most Al teams.

Why is it that allot of Mariner fans think that Chris Snelling will become a 30 homer guy? What has he shown at the Major league level? Besides getting hurt? You want to replace Ibanez?? He is the 3rd most effective hitter on the team!

Pitching is not the problem! It is lack of "clutch" hitting and lack of leadership in the club house.

I would like to see them get a power hitting outfielder and one or two guys step up and tak eon the leadership role. These guys are playing like they are waiting for next year already!

I am continually amazed at how this club still draws crowds of over 20-30K! Though attendancce is down this year yet again as it was last year, they are still getting more fans than the utterly disinterested ball they play deserves! Must be the ballpark cause it ain't the team.

Gee, youd think I was clear enough that I was talking about next year and not this year. Look at this year, is there ANY guy on the team who's overperforming? And with Ichiro and Beltre underperforming to the extent they are, is it any suprise there's no offense this year?

I said I was ok with Ibanez as a DH, thanks for reading.

Anyone who says the Ms pitching is not a problem is ignorant.

Gee, wouldn't everyone want to get a power hitting OF and good leaders. Why don't we get an ace starter or two while we're at it?

If you hate them so much, that's fine, you don't have to go. Other people still like watching baseball, still like supporting the home team, even if its a futile effort, and still find some reasons to go see the Ms.