Talk Sports' Mixed Martial Arts Thread - Page 17

CD1083 · 03-29-2010, 04:29 PM

yeah, I want to see what GSP was so scared of, apparently Hardy has a killer left hook.

dudeosu · 03-29-2010, 11:06 PM

I watched it too with a couple friends.

Pellegrino/Camoes and Miller/Bocek I thought were both great fights, though I thought a good case could have been made for Bocek getting the decision over Miller.

Fitch can't put on an exciting fight. Another snore-fest from him. I recognize he's nigh-unbeatable, but I would like a bit more action.

Carwin put Mir down far faster than I would have expected. I was really dissapointed with Mir's performance. We'll see if Carwin has the punching power to dethrone Lesnar.

GSP was, well, GSP. Totally dominant despite not finishing. At least it wasn't for lack of trying, if not for Hardy's toughness I imagine that fight would have been over with the first armbar. The kimura was even nastier.

Big Willis 16 · 03-29-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudeosu

I watched it too with a couple friends.

Pellegrino/Camoes and Miller/Bocek I thought were both great fights, though I thought a good case could have been made for Bocek getting the decision over Miller.

Fitch can't put on an exciting fight. Another snore-fest from him. I recognize he's nigh-unbeatable, but I would like a bit more action.

Carwin put Mir down far faster than I would have expected. I was really dissapointed with Mir's performance. We'll see if Carwin has the punching power to dethrone Lesnar.

GSP was, well, GSP. Totally dominant despite not finishing. At least it wasn't for lack of trying, if not for Hardy's toughness I imagine that fight would have been over with the first armbar. The kimura was even nastier.

GSP is very tough, and great at what he does.. but I always find myself getting bored watching his fights. If you can get on top of someone and hold them down so easily, you ought to be able to ground and pound the guy out or submit him in five rounds. I believe any other fighter would have been able to snap Hardy's arm and forced the ref to stop the fight, but GSP just had terrible form. Although the Kimura did look pretty good. Hardy has heart, that's for sure.

dudeosu · 03-30-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Willis 16

GSP is very tough, and great at what he does.. but I always find myself getting bored watching his fights. If you can get on top of someone and hold them down so easily, you ought to be able to ground and pound the guy out or submit him in five rounds. I believe any other fighter would have been able to snap Hardy's arm and forced the ref to stop the fight, but GSP just had terrible form. Although the Kimura did look pretty good. Hardy has heart, that's for sure.

GSP's standup hasn't been the same since the first Serra fight. He really plays to his opponents weaknesses now, which is smart, of course, but yes can get boring.

At this point I'm not sure who GSP has left to beat at 170. I guess Paulo Thiago is next assuming he wins his next fight. Paul Daley is also a possibility but he's just another version of Hardy. It's probably cliche to say so, but it may be time for GSP to try middleweight.

Erik W. · 03-30-2010, 11:00 AM

GSP is too small to be a legit MW. It would be very akin to Penn moving back to WW. Certainly he could pick up some wins, but being a real threat to win the title is probably out of reach at a higher weight class.

I'm not unbiased, being a huge GSP fan, but I don't find his fights boring at all. He's very active on the ground, continually working to pass and trying to damage his opponent. Unlike Fitch, you never see him getting stood up, and there's a reason for that.

He makes fights lose tension because he's so dominating, but I don't see them as boring.

According to FightMetric, GSP landed 174 strikes, 11 takedowns, passed 26 times, and attempted 6 submissions. That's active by any definition.

I think his mistake was going for submissions. He was so determined to finish the fight that it actually hurt his chances of doing that. If he had postured up in Hardy's guard and used ground-and-pound, similar to how he fought Penn the second time, I think he would have had a much better chance of actually finishing.

GSP is a legit BJJ blackbelt, but he lost his technique when trying the subs. I think he was trying too hard to prove a point.

dudeosu · 03-30-2010, 12:55 PM

While I agree that GSP probably isn't the biggest WW out there, I think he's got enough size to at least have a couple fights at MW. I'm not suggesting to throw him at Silva, Marquardt, or Sonnen just yet, but given that the MW division is the least deep division in the UFC (even more so than HW), I think GSP could show us just how good he is against guys a bit bigger and more powerful than he's used to.

He'd wouldn't have much to lose at MW. People still think Penn is the best LW despite having little success at WW.

It's not so much that I want to see GSP have harder fights, just that given there's maybe 2 legitimate fights left (barring rematches) for him, it'd be nice to see some new challenges for him. Hell, have a non-title MW fight with Silva just to see the superfight, I wouldn't hold it against him at all if he lost that.

Erik W. · 03-30-2010, 01:28 PM

I do agree with you that GSP is running out of legitimate challengers at WW. The best case scenario would be that Shields moves to UFC after the Henderson fight (which looks very possible) and moves back down to WW. Shields vs St-Pierre is probably the only compelling WW fight imaginable at the moment.

I don't have a problem with GSP staying at WW and cementing a legacy instead of chasing bigger paydays, but they are going to have to move his fights to being the first half of a co-main event because they aren't going to be able to sell PPVs with his name on them.

He reminds me a lot of Mayweather. He's so good at fighting his style that it takes suspense out of his fights and even makes them boring to people who don't appreciate the more technical aspects. GSP needs to find his De La Hoya in order to sell a million PPV buys.

TGH-Adfabre · 03-30-2010, 03:49 PM

GSP vs. Silva, the UFC might do it just so they are NOT Pacquiao and Mayweather.
What a fight that would be.

CD1083 · 03-30-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beavis Christ

GSP vs. Silva, the UFC might do it just so they are NOT Pacquiao and Mayweather.
What a fight that would be.

I think Silva would take care of GSP easily.

Silva - 6'2 205
GSP - 5'11 170

Silva is just too big for GSP

dudeosu · 03-30-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

I think Silva would take care of GSP easily.

Silva - 6'2 205
GSP - 5'11 170

Silva is just too big for GSP

That's only their latest weight class fights, remember these guys cut weight to get there. That fight would be at middleweight of 185.

Speculation is variant about what their actual fight night weight is, I've seen anywhere from 180-195 for GSP and 195-215 for Silva. Silva actually fought at 167 or 168 early in his career.

CD1083 · 03-30-2010, 05:09 PM

do you think GSP could not only make a jump to middleweight but take on arguably the best in the weight class?

dudeosu · 03-30-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

do you think GSP could not only make a jump to middleweight but take on arguably the best in the weight class?

I think he could be competetive, maybe even win. Silva's arguably looked weakest against good wrestlers. He ended up winning, but Lutter and Henderson gave him fits while on the ground. GSP's wrestling is hard to compare to Hendo's, but just about everyone is of the mind that he's probably one of if not the best p4p wrestler there is. IMO He'd be far and away the most complete fighter Silva has ever faced.

Now, save for Thiago Alves, the WW division doesn't have anyone with truly elite striking skills. And Silva is probably light years ahead of Alves in that department. Given the range advantage Silva would have, GSP would have some serious work cut out for him to avoid Silva's fists and legs.

CD1083 · 03-30-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudeosu

Now, save for Thiago Alves, the WW division doesn't have anyone with truly elite striking skills. And Silva is probably light years ahead of Alves in that department. Given the range advantage Silva would have, GSP would have some serious work cut out for him to avoid Silva's fists and legs.

Thats where I think GSP would have problems. He'd have to take Silva down and I think Silva's TDD is better than GSP has seen in the WW division. Add that with Silva's size I think GSP would have to go stand up with Silva and I don't think he could compete. IF he can get Silva on the ground, it goes to the judges.

TGH-Adfabre · 03-30-2010, 11:51 PM

I have not watched enough this year to intelligently comment on how their skills would match up.
I just want to see it. I like both of them a lot.
Probably just a pipe dream.

dudeosu · 04-07-2010, 02:40 PM

Another event coming up this weekend. Curiously, the UFC is having two title fights in Abu Dhabi of all places. Figured something that big would've been saved for Vegas, London or Montreal or something.

The way I see it, though, neither title fight will be much of a competition. Anderson Silva should drop Damien Maia with strikes early. Maia may be a good grappler, but having seen him knocked out in like 20 seconds by Nate Marquardt doesn't bode well when Silva's striking comes to bear.

BJ Penn should be able to handle Frankie Edgar fairly easily. I think it'll be a bit more competetive than the Diego Sanchez fight, but not much more. Frankie at at least a decent standup game.

The ever amusing Kendall Grove is on the card with all those spindly limbs.

Big Willis 16 · 04-10-2010, 09:51 PM

Did anyone catch this when it was live this morning? I won't give anything away, but damn Anderson Silva is a punkass.

gbmoore121 · 04-10-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Willis 16

but damn Anderson Silva is a punkass.

Totally agree. He always apologizes for being disrespectful after fights...but it happens again. Just who he is I think.

Erik W. · 04-11-2010, 02:38 AM

I feel bad for Frankie. Biggest upset since Serra-GSP, and no one is really going to talk about it because Silva acted like a fool.

Big Willis 16 · 04-11-2010, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbmoore121

Totally agree. He always apologizes for being disrespectful after fights...but it happens again. Just who he is I think.

I said the same thing when he apologized again today. He has so much talent I just wish he'd take the Fedor route and knock guys out as quick as he possibly can. He almost wore himself out and paid for it today.

Big Willis 16 · 04-11-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I feel bad for Frankie. Biggest upset since Serra-GSP, and no one is really going to talk about it because Silva acted like a fool.

I agree. A great victory on his part. I am a huge Penn fan so this may be baised, but it seems every once in awhile he takes fights very lightly. He didn't press much at all, until the last few seconds of the fight. Edgar defintiely did take him out of things with his quickness and agility on his feet. Very impressive young kid.

03-30-2010, 11:00 AM	#325
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	GSP is too small to be a legit MW. It would be very akin to Penn moving back to WW. Certainly he could pick up some wins, but being a real threat to win the title is probably out of reach at a higher weight class. I'm not unbiased, being a huge GSP fan, but I don't find his fights boring at all. He's very active on the ground, continually working to pass and trying to damage his opponent. Unlike Fitch, you never see him getting stood up, and there's a reason for that. He makes fights lose tension because he's so dominating, but I don't see them as boring. According to FightMetric, GSP landed 174 strikes, 11 takedowns, passed 26 times, and attempted 6 submissions. That's active by any definition. I think his mistake was going for submissions. He was so determined to finish the fight that it actually hurt his chances of doing that. If he had postured up in Hardy's guard and used ground-and-pound, similar to how he fought Penn the second time, I think he would have had a much better chance of actually finishing. GSP is a legit BJJ blackbelt, but he lost his technique when trying the subs. I think he was trying too hard to prove a point. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!

03-30-2010, 01:28 PM	#327
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	I do agree with you that GSP is running out of legitimate challengers at WW. The best case scenario would be that Shields moves to UFC after the Henderson fight (which looks very possible) and moves back down to WW. Shields vs St-Pierre is probably the only compelling WW fight imaginable at the moment. I don't have a problem with GSP staying at WW and cementing a legacy instead of chasing bigger paydays, but they are going to have to move his fights to being the first half of a co-main event because they aren't going to be able to sell PPVs with his name on them. He reminds me a lot of Mayweather. He's so good at fighting his style that it takes suspense out of his fights and even makes them boring to people who don't appreciate the more technical aspects. GSP needs to find his De La Hoya in order to sell a million PPV buys. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!

03-30-2010, 03:49 PM	#328
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,599	GSP vs. Silva, the UFC might do it just so they are NOT Pacquiao and Mayweather. What a fight that would be. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

03-30-2010, 11:51 PM	#334
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,599	I have not watched enough this year to intelligently comment on how their skills would match up. I just want to see it. I like both of them a lot. Probably just a pipe dream. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

04-10-2010, 09:51 PM	#336
Big Willis 16 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,616	Did anyone catch this when it was live this morning? I won't give anything away, but damn Anderson Silva is a punkass. __________________ A wise man once said "shutup and drink your beer!"

03-29-2010, 04:29 PM	#321
CD1083 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,590	yeah, I want to see what GSP was so scared of, apparently Hardy has a killer left hook.

03-29-2010, 11:06 PM	#322
dudeosu Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 373	I watched it too with a couple friends. Pellegrino/Camoes and Miller/Bocek I thought were both great fights, though I thought a good case could have been made for Bocek getting the decision over Miller. Fitch can't put on an exciting fight. Another snore-fest from him. I recognize he's nigh-unbeatable, but I would like a bit more action. Carwin put Mir down far faster than I would have expected. I was really dissapointed with Mir's performance. We'll see if Carwin has the punching power to dethrone Lesnar. GSP was, well, GSP. Totally dominant despite not finishing. At least it wasn't for lack of trying, if not for Hardy's toughness I imagine that fight would have been over with the first armbar. The kimura was even nastier.

03-30-2010, 12:55 PM	#326
dudeosu Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 373	While I agree that GSP probably isn't the biggest WW out there, I think he's got enough size to at least have a couple fights at MW. I'm not suggesting to throw him at Silva, Marquardt, or Sonnen just yet, but given that the MW division is the least deep division in the UFC (even more so than HW), I think GSP could show us just how good he is against guys a bit bigger and more powerful than he's used to. He'd wouldn't have much to lose at MW. People still think Penn is the best LW despite having little success at WW. It's not so much that I want to see GSP have harder fights, just that given there's maybe 2 legitimate fights left (barring rematches) for him, it'd be nice to see some new challenges for him. Hell, have a non-title MW fight with Silva just to see the superfight, I wouldn't hold it against him at all if he lost that.

03-30-2010, 05:09 PM	#331
CD1083 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,590	do you think GSP could not only make a jump to middleweight but take on arguably the best in the weight class?

04-07-2010, 02:40 PM	#335
dudeosu Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 373	Another event coming up this weekend. Curiously, the UFC is having two title fights in Abu Dhabi of all places. Figured something that big would've been saved for Vegas, London or Montreal or something. The way I see it, though, neither title fight will be much of a competition. Anderson Silva should drop Damien Maia with strikes early. Maia may be a good grappler, but having seen him knocked out in like 20 seconds by Nate Marquardt doesn't bode well when Silva's striking comes to bear. BJ Penn should be able to handle Frankie Edgar fairly easily. I think it'll be a bit more competetive than the Diego Sanchez fight, but not much more. Frankie at at least a decent standup game. The ever amusing Kendall Grove is on the card with all those spindly limbs.

04-11-2010, 02:38 AM	#338
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	I feel bad for Frankie. Biggest upset since Serra-GSP, and no one is really going to talk about it because Silva acted like a fool. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!