Time Warp Baseball - Page 164

Vris · 01-05-2005, 05:57 PM

I'm tellin' ya. Mitch is just having a bad season all around. He turned it around last sim though, so maybe the gestures kinda prompted him to do something.

And, look out, but Scottie Allen has to be the early POTY fave. Last season he had a great year despite the 17-9 record, and this year he is already at 9 wins! I think his first 20 win season is in sight.

Carlton · 01-05-2005, 06:00 PM

Go Cotton Simson, nice to see how much better he is with a GM getting him help in the rotation

DamnYankees · 01-05-2005, 06:04 PM

How good is Cotton Simpson? 11-1, and he's only failed to record 7 outs in all his starts. That's crazy. He's started 13 games, and has only failed to record 7 outs.

Morris...Morris...this sucks. He can't keep getting hurt. What a damn shame.

pat · 01-05-2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt from TN

May 3: The Browns' Dennis Smith, troubled by the new rule that requires a one-second stop before delivery with men on base, balked four times in one game, a club record and two fewer than the single-season record. He allowed 10 runs (9 earned) in 5.1 innings in a 10-1 rout by Cleveland.

That'll probably his last start for the Browns. Buster Davis will assume his spot.

pat · 01-05-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlton

Go Cotton Simson, nice to see how much better he is with a GM getting him help in the rotation

*ahem* Thanks. He's been lights out so far. Hopefully he'll continue this rampage for a long period of time.

jdw · 01-06-2005, 03:33 AM

DamnYankees wrote:

> How good is Cotton Simpson? 11-1, and he's
> only failed to record 7 outs in all his starts.
> That's crazy. He's started 13 games, and has
> only failed to record 7 outs.

Despite eating so many innings, hit pitch counts aren't off the charts for the era. In the 10 game sample ending with 5/31, he had just one game over 120 pitches, and it was under 130. The rest were pretty evenly distributed between the 110-119 range and the 100-109 range. He had at least one that was under 100.

He's walking an amazingly low number of hitters realtive to most everyone else in TWB. In addition, he's giving up hits at an amazingly low number relative to everyone else. The WHIP is off the charts low.

I mentioned over on the TWB boards that 1950 was the high water mark of offense in the AL from the post war all the way up to 1994. If he keeps this up, he could push aside Murph and Frank Smith's claims to the greatest season in TWB history.

John

jdw · 01-06-2005, 03:54 AM

While we're talking about Cotton's season, here are the pitchers who've won 27+ games in a season:

1914 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 33-5 & 1.78 ERA

1914 - Cecil Tan (Cincinnati), 31-7 & 1.72 ERA
1917 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 31-12 & 2.23 ERA
1920 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 31-5 & 1.57 ERA
1925 - Ahrend Nagel (Philadelphia (A)), 31-6 & 2.83 ERA
1948 - John Nolting (Philadelphia (N)), 31-6 & 2.99 ERA

1919 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 30-4 & 1.31 ERA
1921 - Dan Twitty (Cleveland), 30-6 & 3.16 ERA
1935 - Luke Riley (New York (A)), 30-7 & 2.77 ERA
1935 - Frank Smith (Brooklyn), 30-10 & 2.67 ERA

1904 - Dave McBean (Washington), 29-10 & 2.26 ERA
1907 - Patrick De Leon (Cleveland), 29-7 & 2.33 ERA
1910 - Allan Gilbrech (Boston (N)), 29-8 & 2.32 ERA
1915 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 29-7 & 1.33 ERA
1923 - David Duncan (New York (A)), 29-8 & 2.69 ERA
1934 - Cliff Umbaugh (New York (N)), 29-8 & 2.56 ERA

1913 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 28-9 & 1.63 ERA
1916 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 28-7 & 1.58 ERA
1916 - Cecil Tan (Cincinnati), 28-9 & 2.03 ERA
1927 - Ned Fargo (St. Louis (A)), 28-12 & 3.68 ERA
1934 - Luke Riley (New York (A)), 28-10 & 3.08 ERA
1945 - Remmy Paul (Brooklyn), 28-9 & 2.75 ERA

1903 - Mark Krosser (Philadelphia (N)), 27-8 & 1.96 ERA
1904 - Jassen Nelson (Detroit), 27-8 & 2.33 ERA
1910 - Patrick De Leon (Cleveland), 27-10 & 2.94 ERA
1922 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 27-6 & 1.87 ERA
1924 - Johnny Swinson (Brooklyn), 27-10 & 2.64 ERA
1928 - Bourbon Allen (Boston (N)), 27-7 & 2.28 ERA
1931 - Jethro Lee (Washington), 27-6 & 2.14 ERA
1943 - Remmy Paul (Brooklyn), 27-7 & 2.37 ERA
1944 - Mark Ponfick (Boston (A)), 27-8 & 2.81 ERA

A lot of really good pitchers on that list, and a lot of memorable seasons.

Murph of course is the only pitcher to win 30+ in consecutive season: the Black Sox years of 1919-20.

Presto followed up his 33 win season in 1914 with 29 in 1915, while Luke Riley won 28 and 30 in consecutive years. Presto's 62 win in consecutive years is the record.

It's interesting that the first two 30 wins came in the same season, and the win totals of the two pitchers have never been topped.

John

Carlton · 01-06-2005, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat

*ahem* Thanks. He's been lights out so far. Hopefully he'll continue this rampage for a long period of time.

Your welcome.

Even if you don;t win the pennant, you might get alot of GM of the Year votes for just getting another arm in there to back up Cotton. 3 years now we have all watched as the Browns stood still and Cotton would trek out every 4th day...

Matt from TN · 01-06-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vris

And, look out, but Scottie Allen has to be the early POTY fave. Last season he had a great year despite the 17-9 record, and this year he is already at 9 wins! I think his first 20 win season is in sight.

The fact that he has never won 20 is shocking!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw

A lot of really good pitchers on that list, and a lot of memorable seasons.

Yes, what a great list. The only surprising one may be Twitty. He really came out of nowhere that year.

But it sure is great to hear people talking about Cotton. He's one of my favorite current players, and playing for the Browns, he's really gotten little press for someone who has won 4 POTY's over a 6-year span.

DamnYankees · 01-06-2005, 03:52 PM

Interesting question. Who is the worst hitter in the history of TWB? I guess we should narrow it to pitchers, since the other bad hitters wouldn't have been given a shot for long enough.

Joe Lutske is having an excellent first season as a full starter, but the guy can't hit worth ****. He's 1/40, for a .025 batting average. It's pathetic. Is he the worst?

BPS · 01-06-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

Who is the worst hitter in the history of TWB?

In the running is the A's Sammie Torbert as worst hitting position player with a long career.

According to the history books, "Sammie Torbert stroked over 1,000 hits in his 15-year career. But he also had a dismal career batting average of .216. No one in America League history had been both so productive and so futile at the plate during the same career."

Link See third post down.

jdw · 01-06-2005, 06:36 PM

Looks like that Emberling deal came at the right time for the Cards:

"Wednesday 6/8/1950: St. Louis (N)'s Charnley out for 5-6 weeks"

Rock was having his typical solid year for the Cards, while Ingram and Keyes have been inconsistent (and Shipley spot on).

It looks like Moon picked up Rock's next start - a 6-5 win over the Braves where he went 7 IP and allowed only 3 runs. I would imagine that Emberling and his great control go into the rotation instead. I don't know how the park will for for him - he can give up a lot of dingers, even in parks that were HR unfriendly. His flyball proclivity means it could be a lotta dingers in a good HR park. His control helps keep runners low, which means he's not giving up a lot of three run dingers. But the lack of stuff also means he could use a good defense behind him.

The Cards have an exceptionally fleet OF:

7/4 LF Wing
10/4 CF Chamblee
9/9 RF Rarick

In the IF, Stoller is an exception 9/9 at both SS and 2B, playing 2B because of Fellner who's a 6/9 SS and 2B. One would think their defense might be a little better with Fellner at 2B, but he played SS in Brooklyn that the Cards management probably didn't want to rock his boat with a position move right now. Cook at 3B has average range, but a strong arm. Tito Jr. is slightly below average at 1B.

Overall, it's a very good defense behind Emberling. So it will largely be on his ability to not give up too many dingers with runners on that determines his results.

A good trade for the Cards if he works out. Losing Rock could have been a disaster, but give it up to Frank for pull the trigger on a deal to give them coverage for exactly this type of thing.

John

canadiancreed · 01-06-2005, 06:40 PM

Myself I see Emberling returning to his glory years with the Reds. The Cards defense is better than what Abraham had in Cicny for quite a few years (especialyl the outfield). He shoudl do fine unless Sportsman park is a launcing pad.

As for Rarick, he's doing what I figured he would.....unfortuenatly jsut with another team :roll:

metsgeek · 01-06-2005, 07:25 PM

This year looks like it's in the toilet for the Red Sox... 2-12 in the last sim!!.

We'll probably do better when Lutske comes back, but my pitching won't help us go more than .500, even with my offense clicking all at once. Too bad because it looks like Cy Helbig might be having an MVP-caliber season.

Matt from TN · 01-06-2005, 07:33 PM

Man that Red Sox iptching is horrendous!! A team ERA over 6.00! Now we fully understand the -12 pythag last year!

metsgeek · 01-06-2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt from TN

Man that Red Sox pitching is horrendous!! A team ERA over 6.00! Now we fully understand the -12 pythag last year!

+12, not -12

Vris · 01-06-2005, 07:56 PM

Adding to the worst hitter argument, Hackin' Jack has to get consideration. Even though he puts up an OBP over .330 with that sub-.200 average. He's at 626 hits for his career, all leading up to a .216 average (.319 OBP). Quick question: Who has the largest disparity in their career between the two?

And congrats on 2,000 posts Matt.

canadiancreed · 01-06-2005, 08:36 PM

holy crap how the hell did the Sox implode that badly?!

That shoudl be.......my ERA, not yours.

OOTP is weird this year

tward13 · 01-06-2005, 08:46 PM

You want bad hitters? I've got bad hitters.

Went through the retired players in the Almanac and found these gems.

Ernie Boice - C 1901-1909 Braves and Dodgers 351-1918 .183
Sean McMaster - RF 1938-1946 Indians 257-1401 .183

And of course there are the inept pitchers

Phil Rottenbacker - 1909-1916 Cards 26-532 .049

Wayne Exton a reliever for the Browns (mostly) from 1921-1941. Yes in a 22 year career Wayne managed ONE hit. 1-45 .022

canadiancreed · 01-06-2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Wayne Exton a reliever for the Browns (mostly) from 1921-1941. Yes in a 22 year career Wayne managed ONE hit. 1-45 .022

bet there was a party when that happened

01-05-2005, 05:57 PM	#3261
Vris Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 3,251	I'm tellin' ya. Mitch is just having a bad season all around. He turned it around last sim though, so maybe the gestures kinda prompted him to do something. And, look out, but Scottie Allen has to be the early POTY fave. Last season he had a great year despite the 17-9 record, and this year he is already at 9 wins! I think his first 20 win season is in sight. __________________ None Blog it. Last edited by Vris; 01-05-2005 at 05:58 PM. Reason: pulled a creed

01-05-2005, 06:00 PM	#3262
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	Go Cotton Simson, nice to see how much better he is with a GM getting him help in the rotation __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

01-06-2005, 06:40 PM	#3273
canadiancreed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,660	Myself I see Emberling returning to his glory years with the Reds. The Cards defense is better than what Abraham had in Cicny for quite a few years (especialyl the outfield). He shoudl do fine unless Sportsman park is a launcing pad. As for Rarick, he's doing what I figured he would.....unfortuenatly jsut with another team :roll: __________________ PT21 PT22

01-06-2005, 07:25 PM	#3274
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	This year looks like it's in the toilet for the Red Sox... 2-12 in the last sim!!. We'll probably do better when Lutske comes back, but my pitching won't help us go more than .500, even with my offense clicking all at once. Too bad because it looks like Cy Helbig might be having an MVP-caliber season. __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!

01-06-2005, 07:33 PM	#3275
Matt from TN Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a funk.... Posts: 3,413	Man that Red Sox iptching is horrendous!! A team ERA over 6.00! Now we fully understand the -12 pythag last year! __________________ Set in Stone... Players Remain with Original Franchise

01-05-2005, 06:04 PM	#3263
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	How good is Cotton Simpson? 11-1, and he's only failed to record 7 outs in all his starts. That's crazy. He's started 13 games, and has only failed to record 7 outs. Morris...Morris...this sucks. He can't keep getting hurt. What a damn shame.

01-06-2005, 03:33 AM	#3266
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	DamnYankees wrote: > How good is Cotton Simpson? 11-1, and he's > only failed to record 7 outs in all his starts. > That's crazy. He's started 13 games, and has > only failed to record 7 outs. Despite eating so many innings, hit pitch counts aren't off the charts for the era. In the 10 game sample ending with 5/31, he had just one game over 120 pitches, and it was under 130. The rest were pretty evenly distributed between the 110-119 range and the 100-109 range. He had at least one that was under 100. He's walking an amazingly low number of hitters realtive to most everyone else in TWB. In addition, he's giving up hits at an amazingly low number relative to everyone else. The WHIP is off the charts low. I mentioned over on the TWB boards that 1950 was the high water mark of offense in the AL from the post war all the way up to 1994. If he keeps this up, he could push aside Murph and Frank Smith's claims to the greatest season in TWB history. John

01-06-2005, 03:54 AM	#3267
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	While we're talking about Cotton's season, here are the pitchers who've won 27+ games in a season: 1914 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 33-5 & 1.78 ERA 1914 - Cecil Tan (Cincinnati), 31-7 & 1.72 ERA 1917 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 31-12 & 2.23 ERA 1920 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 31-5 & 1.57 ERA 1925 - Ahrend Nagel (Philadelphia (A)), 31-6 & 2.83 ERA 1948 - John Nolting (Philadelphia (N)), 31-6 & 2.99 ERA 1919 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 30-4 & 1.31 ERA 1921 - Dan Twitty (Cleveland), 30-6 & 3.16 ERA 1935 - Luke Riley (New York (A)), 30-7 & 2.77 ERA 1935 - Frank Smith (Brooklyn), 30-10 & 2.67 ERA 1904 - Dave McBean (Washington), 29-10 & 2.26 ERA 1907 - Patrick De Leon (Cleveland), 29-7 & 2.33 ERA 1910 - Allan Gilbrech (Boston (N)), 29-8 & 2.32 ERA 1915 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 29-7 & 1.33 ERA 1923 - David Duncan (New York (A)), 29-8 & 2.69 ERA 1934 - Cliff Umbaugh (New York (N)), 29-8 & 2.56 ERA 1913 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 28-9 & 1.63 ERA 1916 - Andrew Murphy (Chicago (A)), 28-7 & 1.58 ERA 1916 - Cecil Tan (Cincinnati), 28-9 & 2.03 ERA 1927 - Ned Fargo (St. Louis (A)), 28-12 & 3.68 ERA 1934 - Luke Riley (New York (A)), 28-10 & 3.08 ERA 1945 - Remmy Paul (Brooklyn), 28-9 & 2.75 ERA 1903 - Mark Krosser (Philadelphia (N)), 27-8 & 1.96 ERA 1904 - Jassen Nelson (Detroit), 27-8 & 2.33 ERA 1910 - Patrick De Leon (Cleveland), 27-10 & 2.94 ERA 1922 - Tim Lopresto (St. Louis (N)), 27-6 & 1.87 ERA 1924 - Johnny Swinson (Brooklyn), 27-10 & 2.64 ERA 1928 - Bourbon Allen (Boston (N)), 27-7 & 2.28 ERA 1931 - Jethro Lee (Washington), 27-6 & 2.14 ERA 1943 - Remmy Paul (Brooklyn), 27-7 & 2.37 ERA 1944 - Mark Ponfick (Boston (A)), 27-8 & 2.81 ERA A lot of really good pitchers on that list, and a lot of memorable seasons. Murph of course is the only pitcher to win 30+ in consecutive season: the Black Sox years of 1919-20. Presto followed up his 33 win season in 1914 with 29 in 1915, while Luke Riley won 28 and 30 in consecutive years. Presto's 62 win in consecutive years is the record. It's interesting that the first two 30 wins came in the same season, and the win totals of the two pitchers have never been topped. John

01-06-2005, 03:52 PM	#3270
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	Interesting question. Who is the worst hitter in the history of TWB? I guess we should narrow it to pitchers, since the other bad hitters wouldn't have been given a shot for long enough. Joe Lutske is having an excellent first season as a full starter, but the guy can't hit worth ****. He's 1/40, for a .025 batting average. It's pathetic. Is he the worst?

01-06-2005, 06:36 PM	#3272
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Looks like that Emberling deal came at the right time for the Cards: "Wednesday 6/8/1950: St. Louis (N)'s Charnley out for 5-6 weeks" Rock was having his typical solid year for the Cards, while Ingram and Keyes have been inconsistent (and Shipley spot on). It looks like Moon picked up Rock's next start - a 6-5 win over the Braves where he went 7 IP and allowed only 3 runs. I would imagine that Emberling and his great control go into the rotation instead. I don't know how the park will for for him - he can give up a lot of dingers, even in parks that were HR unfriendly. His flyball proclivity means it could be a lotta dingers in a good HR park. His control helps keep runners low, which means he's not giving up a lot of three run dingers. But the lack of stuff also means he could use a good defense behind him. The Cards have an exceptionally fleet OF: 7/4 LF Wing 10/4 CF Chamblee 9/9 RF Rarick In the IF, Stoller is an exception 9/9 at both SS and 2B, playing 2B because of Fellner who's a 6/9 SS and 2B. One would think their defense might be a little better with Fellner at 2B, but he played SS in Brooklyn that the Cards management probably didn't want to rock his boat with a position move right now. Cook at 3B has average range, but a strong arm. Tito Jr. is slightly below average at 1B. Overall, it's a very good defense behind Emberling. So it will largely be on his ability to not give up too many dingers with runners on that determines his results. A good trade for the Cards if he works out. Losing Rock could have been a disaster, but give it up to Frank for pull the trigger on a deal to give them coverage for exactly this type of thing. John

01-06-2005, 07:56 PM	#3277
Vris Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 3,251	Adding to the worst hitter argument, Hackin' Jack has to get consideration. Even though he puts up an OBP over .330 with that sub-.200 average. He's at 626 hits for his career, all leading up to a .216 average (.319 OBP). Quick question: Who has the largest disparity in their career between the two? And congrats on 2,000 posts Matt. __________________ None Blog it.

01-06-2005, 08:36 PM	#3278
canadiancreed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,660	holy crap how the hell did the Sox implode that badly?! That shoudl be.......my ERA, not yours. OOTP is weird this year __________________ PT21 PT22

01-06-2005, 08:46 PM	#3279
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,965	You want bad hitters? I've got bad hitters. Went through the retired players in the Almanac and found these gems. Ernie Boice - C 1901-1909 Braves and Dodgers 351-1918 .183 Sean McMaster - RF 1938-1946 Indians 257-1401 .183 And of course there are the inept pitchers Phil Rottenbacker - 1909-1916 Cards 26-532 .049 Wayne Exton a reliever for the Browns (mostly) from 1921-1941. Yes in a 22 year career Wayne managed ONE hit. 1-45 .022