Time Warp Baseball - Page 163

canadiancreed · 01-03-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

1.54 Hal Lepre, CIN

What deal with the devil did he make this year!

fhomess · 01-03-2005, 04:42 PM

I've been away for awhile, so I'm going to comment on several things:

Cleveland was the worst AL team in the 1940's. Hopefully, that will not be the case in the '50's, but I'm still waiting for my young pitching to come around. It's starting to, but slowly!

I seriously doubt Dietrich would look good in a Red Sox uni or a Reds uni.

As for a call up to the majors, there's a good chance he will given the current play in the Cleveland outfield. It'll probably require an injury, though. I'd still prefer to hold him back till September at the earliest.

As for the Hall of Fame tally by team, the Tribe had Whiskey and Patrick Seifried. They traded away Otto Kahle early in his career for a couple of decent players who helped the team get absolutely nowhere. As I remember it, the AI made this trade only a few days after I chose to take the team when the league went live. Argh! Then again, Otto retired before that actually happened, so my current crop of minor leaguers can be attributed to the fact that the team stunk ever since the '42 championship.

canadiancreed · 01-03-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

I seriously doubt Dietrich would look good in a Red Sox uni or a Reds uni.

Well the Red Sox I'd understand, but the Reds he'd look great

You just gotta give it a chance :d

Vris · 01-03-2005, 05:58 PM

Braves have 5, all from the '31 team. How disappointing things didn't turn around that decade.

pat · 01-03-2005, 07:08 PM

Quote:

.402 Cy Helbig, BOS

Looks like he'll be missed in St. Louis.

jdw · 01-03-2005, 07:59 PM

Carlton wrote:

> A debate I can actually WIN with John!
> I am so happy...finally..lol

> 1st my park factors must be taken
> into account... I have slightly better
> offensive park than the cards,

Cool. So your slightly better hitters park really hard little to do with the fact that the 1949 Phils out scored their closest rivals by 98 runs, and allowed just 9 runs less. I'm not trying to say that the Phils didn't have better pitching and defense than the Cards. They did. What I'm trying to say is that they had Much Better offense than the Cards. You finished 17 games ahead of the Cards. Offense accounted for more of that gap than pitching and defense.

> and ten fold moreso then the
> Braves... so my defense was
> spot on

The Braves has a brutal park for dingers and 2B, and a bit below average for BA. I'm willing to concede that their pitching and defense wasn't as good as their raw Runs Allowed would indicate, and that their offense was better than their raw runs scored. Perhaps 50% of the gap with the Braves was offense, and 50% was pitching&defense.

> 2nd Pokey was excellent at SS
> before his range went to 1 (shocked
> me...I was hoping 5 at least) and
> then Billy Alexander (who is the
> BEST defensive SS in TWB) started
> the last 2 months at SS for us.

Odd...

Range Factor at SS:
5.71 - Pokey (50 starts)
5.13 - Perly (37 starts)
5.08 - Alexander (50 starts)

I'm guessing that Alexander started all the games where your Flyball pitchers started. For reference, the Tigers' Castaneda was 5.33 and Howard in NY was a 5.35.

Pokey was an exceptional SS before that 1 range cut in. It clearly is a flaw in the engine of OOTP that allows a Gold Glove 2B to move over and play SS *better* than not only the two Gold Glove winners, but also better than a player his own GM believes is the best in the game.

Of course you also ignore the fact that you team had a better record with the Offense Intense line up rather than the Defense Intense line-up. I mean this is a club that played .724 ball through June, then cruised in with .624 ball the second half.

> and pitching and defense doesn't
> win championships?
>
> This is where I can play dirty to
> win an arguement with John

>
> 1946 World Series Winner
>
> St. Louis (A) def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 2

You did beat a team with better offense, and worse pitching & defense (the Reds) to win the NL. Of course that ignores the fact that the best pitching&defense in the Frank Smith & Remmy Paul led Dodgers who allowed 58 fewer runs than the Phils. I don't think the difference in parks makes that gap go away. The Dodgers finished 8 games back. Why?

738 - Phils
687 - Dodgers

Among the teams over .500 in the NL that year (Phils, Reds, Cards and Dodgers), the Dodgers had by far the best pitching&defense, while giving it up with by far the worst offense. They finished *4th* out of those four teams.

The Reds had by far the best offense, but probably the worst pitching&defense when the park is factored in.

The Phils combined the balance of good offense with good pitching and won.

The Browns were pretty much the same thing - good offense (18 more runs scored than the Phils and #2 in the AL) and strong pitching (amazingly 55 less runs allowed than the Phils and also #2 in the AL).

The Phils won games 2-0, 2-1 and 2-1, losing one 2-1 as well. The also won one blow out 9-1, and dropped a blow out 8-0. It's pretty much impossible to see that great pitching&defense beat great offense, since the two teams were evenly matched up in both counts. The mirror image of the scores tends to confirm that.

> 1948 World Series Winner
>
> Detroit def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 3

In the NL, the Phils and Cards were neck-and-neck in runs scored - 835 to 833. No one else in the NL was within 100 runs of them. As you say, the Phils and Cards parks are fairly close. We could correctly say that the Cards offense was a bit better if you factor it in.

The Cards and the Phils were neck-and-neck for *second place* in runs allowed - 657 to 671, behind the Reds 637. The Reds were in a good pitchers park, while the Cards and Phils were in hitters parks. Toss the Reds *behind* the Cards & Phils because of that, but probably not a mile behind. The Braves were close behind with 692. Toss them out due to their pitchers park. The Cubs are interesting back at 725 runs allowed given their park. Probably a better combo of pitching&defense than the Braves, but probably not enough to catch the other three. The Phils and Cards (along with the Reds close by) had the best pitching&defense in the NL.

The Phils and Cards were pretty interchangeable, but *both* combined the one of the two best offenses with one of the two (or three) best pitching&defense in the league, fought it down to the wire. But the gap between those two clubs and the rest of the best clubs in pitching&defense was less than the gap in offense. I suspect that would even be the case when the numbers are total crunched. Pitching&defense? Nah. Very strong balanced teams those two were.

In the AL, the Tigers were #2 to the Red Sox in runs allowed, and then the next cluster of teams (Browns and Senators) were 39 runs back. Ironically, the Tigers and Red Sox also play in hitters parks. Ironically, the Tigers allowed one less run that the Phils. Perhaps the Phils have a better hitters park, and that would have made their staff slightly better. But not really much better. These were both among the better staffs in baseball.

The Tigers scored 864 runs, most in the majors. It was 57 more than the Red Sox, with the next club 118 runs behind the Tigers. Cleary the Tigers won the AL on hitting a bit more than pitching. But the Red Sox and the Tigers were the best hitting *and* pitching teams in the AL. Very similar to the Phils and Cards in the NL, but more so.

The Tigers were a better hitting team, but not by a great deal. The Phils were a better pitching&defense team, but probably by and even smaller margin.

Did the alleged Great Pitching&Defense shut down the Tigers alleged Great Hitting?

The Tigers averaged 5 runs a game against the Phils, which was considerably more than the Phils averaged giving up during the year. They outscored the Phils 35-33, which pretty much reflect how tight the series was - 6-9, 2-5, 8-9, 2-1, 5-3, 6-5 and 4-3. Did the Phils beat the Tigers on pitching&defense? Not really. Errors were costly to the Tigers in the last two games, but they also had been costly to the Phils earlier in the series.

> 1949 World Series Winner
>
> Boston (A) def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 3

The Phils line-up in the World Series included the brutal Baker in RF, the stone gloved Rossi at 1B, the average at best Perly at 2B, and Dorsey (3B) and Crocitto (LF) totally out of position. This was a great defense? The Phils committed 9 errors in the series.

Pitching&defense? Behind 5-4, 6-5, 13-7 wins prior to the 3-2 final? Or perhaps you're confusing the Phils with the Red Sox who shut down the Phils offense no less than three times in the series (3-2, 8-2, 5-1) _in addition_ to allowing just three runs in Game 7?

Come on, everyone watching the series knows that the Phils brought offense to the table.

> Yea, I know, but I am 0-10 against
> John...so this one win as dirty as it
> was won...is the best I can do

Fighty dirty would be okay with me. I just wish it matched up with reality.

John

jdw · 01-03-2005, 08:23 PM

> It's still hard to imagine the
> Cards and Yanks so far down
> this list, and despite the great
> Yankees dynasty, they have a
> relatively weak representation.
> Although Booth & Riley are likely
> to go in soon.

I suspect over time more Yanks will go in, if not in the BWAA then by the VC. They had a lot of very good players in that era, and many of them had Great Years. But for the most part they had things that kept them from having those Long Careers that so many of out HOFers had. I suspect that if Willard goes in, along with Dale Reneau already being in, that a wave of Yanks will go in. Moonlight Graham was a better player than Willard, and that's not even talking about the pitchers and Ditty and the Swervin and a bunch of others.

> The Dodgers have just one,
> but players from their dynasty
> are just becoming eligible, and
> they have two no-doubters in
> Vancini & Smith.

Speedy will go in with the steals record. Wright's candidacy has been helped by his strong post war play (two more batting titles pop out), and the addition of another title last year where he was terrific prior to the end of the season injury. Remy Paul is our Hal Newhouser, except that he was actually a excellent pitcher leading into the War. I think he's going to go in.

Fellner wasn't part of the Great Dodgers teams of Oscar and Smith like the rest, but he played with all of those five players, was a starter on the last championship team, and I'm pretty confident that he'll end up in the HOF.

John

Carlton · 01-03-2005, 11:07 PM

I didn't say no offense...but defense is what got me there

You cite small sample size and forget the intangibles for my offensive 1st half of '49

In the second half...I let Mike Walker, Bill Risner pitch, basically because I had the pennant sewn up...much like the Colts not starting Payton Manning this week...I let rookies play

September, I had many young guys taking ALOT of starts from my main guys to avoid injuries (didn't work)

As for Billy Alexander...don't just look at range factor...look at his F% as well...yes Pokey had better range...but he couldn't match up to Alexander's F%...which in 1950 is .981...cleary better then anyone else...and add his 5.04 RF...that is the BEST SS in the game...he is not Ted Stuart, (especially with the bat) but he isn't far off defensive wise

jdw · 01-04-2005, 01:38 AM

Carlton wrote:

> I didn't say no offense...
> but defense is what got
> me there

Such as when the Dodgers had better pitching&defense than the Phils? Or when there really was no difference between the Phils and Cards in 1948?

> You cite small sample size

Actually, in each year I take a look at the *entire* sample size in the NL to see how the Phils won it.

You are the one who cite the small sample size of winning World Series. I don't think even you would claim that coming from a 0-3 deficit in one series and going to Game 7 the following year in another tight series is any indication that your teams were clearly better *in those series* than the Tigers and Red Sox.

I'll grant you that over the course of the 1949 *season* the Phils were clearly the best team in TWB. But offense would have had every bit as much to do with that as pitching&defense.

> and forget the intangibles for
> my offensive 1st half of '49

Intangibles? I thought I mentioned that you offense was exceptional last season. How much stronger would you like me to put it over?

> In the second half...I let Mike Walker, Bill
> Risner pitch, basically because I had the
> pennant sewn up...

Walker started 5 games, Risner started 11. 16 out of 154. They went a combined 9-4.

> much like the Colts not starting Payton
> Manning this week...I let rookies play

No doubt. When you rolled out your B-Pitchers, and you Top Defenders, your team played less well. With your Top Pitchers, Frontline Offense and Weaker Defense running wild earlier in the year, you beat the snot out of the league.

As far as one ignoring, you seem to be ignoring my comments on the various *poor* defenders you rolled out while winning - Rosi, Perly (at SS), Moe, Baker, etc.

> As for Billy Alexander...don't just look at
> range factor...look at his F% as well...
> yes Pokey had better range...but he couldn't
> match up to Alexander's F%...which in 1950
> is .981...cleary better then anyone else...and
> add his 5.04 RF...that is the BEST SS in the
> game...he is not Ted Stuart, (especially with
> the bat) but he isn't far off defensive wise

You're ****ting, right?

Here's are the actual numbers of the 1949 Gold Glover in the NL vs. Alexander:

RangeFactor
5.35 - Howard
5.08 - Alexander

Fielding Percentage
.984 - Howard
.983 - Alexander

Aw crap, since someone is going to ask, I might as well do the entire NL with everyone who played more than 300 innings at SS:

RangeFactor
5.71 - Dorsey (460.0 Inn)
5.40 - Menard (948.2 Inn)
5.35 - Howard (1255.1 Inn)
5.33 - Bass (535.0 Inn)
5.22 - Shadle (1173.0 Inn)
5.13 - Perly (319.0 Inn)
5.12 - Barton (708.2 Inn)
5.10 - Stoller (1229.1 Inn)
5.08 - Alexander (422.0 Inn)
5.00 - Fellner (1145.2 Inn)
4.80 - Mayotte (1251.1 Inn)

Fielding Percentage
.984 - Howard (1255.1 Inn)
.984 - Menard (948.2 Inn)
.983 - Alexander (422.0 Inn)
.977 - Fellner (1145.2 Inn)
.974 - Shadle (1173.0 Inn)
.973 - Barton (708.2 Inn)
.968 - Perly (319.0 Inn)
.967 - Dorsey (460.0 Inn)
.963 - Stoller (1229.1 Inn)
.960 - Mayotte (1251.1 Inn)
.943 - Bass (535.0 Inn)

Alexander may have the best Ratings as a SS in the game. He just didn't play like it last year. An oddity, much like Pokey playing out of his mind at SS despite not having the skills to do so. Call in an aberation of OOTP. Not the first, nor that last. But to claim Alexander tore it up at SS last year would be incorrect. He really didn't.

John

Carlton · 01-04-2005, 03:14 AM

He just won't let me win

Rossi, Wright and Moe had exceptional offense 1st halfs, and tailed off at year end...yet we still had a .642 winning%...you cite good pitching, I say because of slumps, I rearranged to have a better defense.

I still say defense is more important than offense, and that if you use the right pitchers when thinking defense, you'll win

canadiancreed · 01-04-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

I still say defense is more important than offense, and that if you use the right pitchers when thinking defense, you'll win

I'll have to agree with this, although I dont really knwo fo any examples right off the top of my head

jdw · 01-04-2005, 04:30 PM

> He just won't let me win

Of course not!

> Rossi, Wright and Moe had exceptional offense
> 1st halfs, and tailed off at year end... yet we
> still had a .642 winning%...

Wright:
.478/.495/.667/1.162 - Apr (half with Dodgers)
.333/.388/.505/.894 - May
.375/.434/.615/1.049 - Jun
.256/.320/.333/.653 - Jul
.324/.398/.593/.991 - Aug
.329/.395/.562/.957 - Sep

He had a bad Jul. Otherwise, his Aug and Sept were inline with his .349/.405/.547/.952 seasonal average. 8 HR and 27 RBI in August in addition to the .324 BA is pretty lusty.

Rossi hit .447/.469/.553/1.022 in September (playing full time), and was a down .311/.376/.425/.801 in August (though it was better than both his June and July. He really only was red hot in April (.407/.434/.659/1.094) before starting his slide in May (.342/.393/.474/.867 which for him is very good, though the 1 HR was telling).

Moe was interesting, because he fell apart right on schedule after his birthday, then game back strong in August and September to close the year before the injury. I did a post either here or over at TWB on it.

Rauch of course closed monsterously strong.

> you cite good pitching, I say because
> of slumps, I rearranged to have a better
> defense.

I've admitted throughout this that you had good pitching, and oddly good defense despite running out a brutal 1B (Rossi), an aging slowing 3B of medicore range (Moe), a brutal wing OF, and guys out of position all over the place.

What I'm also saying is that perhaps the best and deepest team in TWB also had an exceptionally good offense.

> I still say defense is more important
> than offense, and that if you use
> the right pitchers when thinking
> defense, you'll win

It depends on how we define "defense". If Defense = Pitching & Fielding, then I'd come close to agree - it's exactly as important as Offense.

I do entirely agree with the notion of using the right pitchers and thinking fielding and what you also imply beneath it - the park.

I think you also use the right positional players and think defense in that as well.

Moe wasn't a great fielder. He wasn't horrible, but he wasn't great. His bat was awfully good, and his arm was strong, so if he got to them, he was pretty decent at throwing them out. You were willing to take a certain level of defense from him in return for the bat.

Gold Gloves notwithstanding, Lonny was a horrible 1B other than catching the ball. No range, and no arm. But (i) he knocked the crap out of the ball, and (ii) you had Ted and Pokey up the middle. You were willing to accept subpar defense out of Lonny and Moe because they brought the bats, and Pokey and Ted brought the gloves.

Baker can't field a lick. Horribly range and wet noodle arm. But in 1946-48, he brought a solid bat to the table, especially in his career year in 1948. You clearly took his bad defense along with his bat. Given your pitchers, the park, the defense around him and his own bat, you were willing to make the sacrifice.

I think all of those weights are important in winning. The White Sox have a poor infield defense. They have a pretty darn good OF defense. Lord knows I wouldn't want a rotation full of GB pitchers with that IF. I also wouldn't want to add *another* bad defended to that IF unless (i) he brought a big bat, and (ii) looking at replacing one of the middle IFs with a much better glove.

The Red Sox have a staggeringly bad infield defensively. Mets weighs that with the offense they bring to the table. In his place, I would do it slightly differently, even while admitting I love Skeeter (who's batter more than makes up for the glove, but is a problem up the middle next to another poor fielding guy like Morris).

John

canadiancreed · 01-04-2005, 04:35 PM

and jsut an update on Moe

April - .267/.303/.400
May - .500/.500/.917

Not too shabby for soomeone that's "washed-up"

IO thikn he's even imspiring Jones to finally get his ass in gear

canadiancreed · 01-04-2005, 05:49 PM

Since no-one seemed to notice this, and it's ironic twist:

Quote:

Friday 5/13/1950: Jonny Perly stars with 2000th career hit
BROOKLYN - Philadelphia (N)'s Jonny Perly showed a smile on his face after he got his 2000th career hit against Brooklyn on Friday. His hit in the 5th inning was a single off J.D. Allen. In 16 years of big league action so far, Jonny has compiled a batting average of .279, along with 95 homeruns and 795 RBI. 'Baseball is a great game, and adding something to it's history is smething I've always wanted. What a great day!'

jdw · 01-05-2005, 04:18 AM

One quick add on the SS fielding percentage discussion. The Jewler has a F% rating of .992 compared to Alexander's .983. Alexander of course has the 10 range and 9 arm, while Menard is 7/7. I'm willing to concede that Alexander is the better *rated* defensive SS, but of course I put less weight in F% than range... unless the F% is downright horrific.

John

Carlton · 01-05-2005, 05:22 AM

you also have to take into account PO+A+DP per TC

Looking at my defense, and my GB% pitching staff, my defense is better then it looks

canadiancreed · 01-05-2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Looking at my defense, and my GB% pitching staff, my defense is better then it looks

Couldnt be any worse

Matt from TN · 01-05-2005, 01:34 PM

May 1950

This was a very interesting month for the AL. First off, the Athletics surprised everyone by going 20-8 and rocketing into first. They hold a steady 3-game lead over the White Sox and Browns. The two preseason favorites, Boston and Detroit, are both limping.

Last season's AL ROTY Bud Ulrich of the Tigers suffered an elbow strain, but has been pitching through it. He is currently 3-3 with a 3.96 ERA, but he has gone past the 7th inning only once this month (and only twice past the 6th). Then the team lost slugging 3B Luther Ormiston (.306, 11 HR, 41 RBI) until late June with a torn groin muscle.

In the top of the 8th inning during a 5-5 tie against the Indians in Cleveland, Boston lost two of their top players. During the first at-bat of the inning, shortstop Morris Lutske threw out a runner but ruptured a tendon in his arm, which will put him out until late July. During the very next at-bat, starting pitcher Bill Finley struck out Victor Estevez but Finley complained of serious elbow pain. Doctors later discovered that he tore a ligament and will be out for the rest of the season. That certainly puts a damper on the 37-year-old's quest for 300 wins, since he currently has a 260-201 career record.

Several more trades went down over the past month, but perhaps the most surprising one saw last season's AL POTY Corky Stell delt to Cincinnati for closer extraordinaire Gene Masarech. The Sox obviously believe a strong closer was a key missing element for them to get to that coveted pennant. The open rotation spot was filled by 23-year-old Bourbon Allen Jr., son of the HOF'er with the same name. After spending the past two seasons in the bullpen, Allen made his first career start on May 24th against the Yankees, then shutout the AL-leading A's on May 28th and was promptly named POTW on May 30th. The White Sox also saw slugging 1B Lonny Arrendale hit a homerun in 7 straight games this month! He now leads the majors with 15 longballs, despite playing in one of the least homer-friendly home parks in baseball.

Despite all the trades, the Phillies have moved into 1st place by 2.5 games over the Cardinals. Philly went 18-9 this month, while St. Louis went 15-13. Meanwhile, Boston went on a 9-game winning streak and finished 16-10 on the month and in 3rd place. The Braves took 4 of 6 from the Phils this month and started their winning streak with 2 wins against the Cards. They also swept the Pirates and Dodgers.

In The News

May 3: The Browns' Dennis Smith, troubled by the new rule that requires a one-second stop before delivery with men on base, balked four times in one game, a club record and two fewer than the single-season record. He allowed 10 runs (9 earned) in 5.1 innings in a 10-1 rout by Cleveland.

May 12: Airplane travel is still a baseball rarity, but a railroad strike forced five clubs—the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Giants and Reds—to fly home or away to play their next scheduled games. The Senators, with shorter distances to travel, took the bus.

May 13: Braves outfielder Mitch Leibowitz apologized to the hometown fans for "insulting gestures" he made in response to catcalls prompted by his 3rd inning error against St. Louis yesterday. After a solo homerun tied the game 1-1, Leibowitz's error allowed Cards SS Mike Fellner to advance to 2nd. Fellner was later thrown out at home and Boston went on to win 2-1, but Leibowitz still heard the jeers from fans. Mitch currently has nearly twice as many errors (9) as any other outfielder in the majors.

American League-Pitcher of the Month:
Cotton Simson (SLA)!
He had a record of 6-1 in 7 games started, with an ERA of 2.48 and 1 shutouts.

American League-Batter of the Month:
Howard "Bud" Ayers (PHA)!
He batted .472 in 72 AB, with 8 homers and 27 RBI.

National League-Pitcher of the Month:
Scottie Allen (BSN)!
He had a record of 6-1 in 7 games started, with an ERA of 1.68 and 3 shutouts.

National League-Batter of the Month:
Tom Howard (NYG)!
He batted .423 in 97 AB, with 6 homers and 18 RBI.

Code:

American League Standings 
  
Philadelphia (A) 32 19 .627 - 
Chicago (A)      29 22 .569 3.0 
St. Louis (A)    29 22 .569 3.0 
Detroit          27 23 .540 4.5
Boston (A)       24 28 .462 8.5
New York (A)     24 29 .453 9.0
Cleveland        21 29 .420 10.5 
Washington       18 32 .360 13.5
 
National League Standings 
 
Philadelphia (N) 33 17 .660 - 
St. Louis (N)    31 20 .608 2.5
Boston (N)       28 21 .571 4.5
New York (N)     26 25 .510 7.5
Cincinnati       23 28 .451 10.5
Chicago (N)      22 28 .440 11.0
Pittsburgh       20 30 .400 13.0
Brooklyn         19 33 .365 15.0

AL AVG
.396 Cy Helbig, BOS
.389 Peaches Badeau, PHA
.375 Jimmy Ditty, NYA

NL AVG
.403 Tom Howard, NYG
.386 Ogden Wing, STL
.372 Ed Rossi, CHN

AL HOMERUNS
15 Lonny Arrendale, CHA
14 Ray Kress, DET
12 Cy Helbig, BOS

NL HOMERUNS
14 Ken Chaucer, BSN
13 Ervin Thompson, NYG
12 Four Players Tied

AL RBI
51 Cy Helbig, BOS
46 Matt Perly, DET
46 Ray Kress, DET

NL RBI
49 Joe Rodabaugh, NYG
40 Ervin Thompson, NYG
38 Vince Thimpson, CHN

AL STEALS
15 Hershel Cooley, PHA
14 Hans habermehl, PHA
13 David Oram, CHA
13 Homer Jewell, CHA

NL STEALS
27 Ben Cook, STL
18 Jonny Perly, PHI
14 Jack Zenisek, BSN

AL ERA
2.12 Cotton Simson, SLA
3.27 Ellis Weeks, PHA
3.61 Carpenter Erickson, NYA

NL ERA
1.97 Willard Carte, PHI
2.48 Scottie Allen, BSN
2.58 Hal Lepre, CIN

AL WINS
11 Cotton Simson, SLA
8 Hal Andrew, DET
8 Johnny Gordley, CHA

NL WINS
9 Scottie Allen, BSN
8 Willard Carte, PHI
8 Bob Bussmann, PHI

AL STRIKEOUTS
91 Carpenter Erickson, NYA
81 Cotton Simson, SLA
71 Chubby Allen, SLA

NL STRIKEOUTS
72 Scottie Allen, BSN
67 John Nolting, PHI
61 Ron Fleischmann, PIT

AL SAVES
9 Lloyd Wyman, DET
9 Tim Knapp, CHA
8 Cal Granger, PHA

NL SAVES
9 John Quinney, STL
7 Sam Fontana, BKN
7 George Curd, CHN

ifspuds · 01-05-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt from TN

May 13: Braves outfielder Mitch Leibowitz apologized to the hometown fans for "insulting gestures" he made in response to catcalls prompted by his 3rd inning error against St. Louis yesterday. After a solo homerun tied the game 1-1, Leibowitz's error allowed Cards SS Mike Fellner advance to 2nd. Fellner was later thrown out at home and Boston went on to win 2-1, but Leibowitz still heard the jeers from fans. Mitch currently has nearly twice as many errors (9) as any other outfielder in the majors.

I bet "Immobile Ed" Monchak would give Leibowitz a run for his money if the Monster could actually *get* to balls in the outfield.

canadiancreed · 01-05-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

May 13: Braves outfielder Mitch Leibowitz apologized to the hometown fans for "insulting gestures" he made in response to catcalls prompted by his 3rd inning error against St. Louis yesterday. After a solo homerun tied the game 1-1, Leibowitz's error allowed Cards SS Mike Fellner advance to 2nd. Fellner was later thrown out at home and Boston went on to win 2-1, but Leibowitz still heard the jeers from fans. Mitch currently has nearly twice as many errors (9) as any other outfielder in the majors.

For some reason this brings a smile to my face

01-03-2005, 04:42 PM	#3242
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,693	I've been away for awhile, so I'm going to comment on several things: Cleveland was the worst AL team in the 1940's. Hopefully, that will not be the case in the '50's, but I'm still waiting for my young pitching to come around. It's starting to, but slowly! I seriously doubt Dietrich would look good in a Red Sox uni or a Reds uni. As for a call up to the majors, there's a good chance he will given the current play in the Cleveland outfield. It'll probably require an injury, though. I'd still prefer to hold him back till September at the earliest. As for the Hall of Fame tally by team, the Tribe had Whiskey and Patrick Seifried. They traded away Otto Kahle early in his career for a couple of decent players who helped the team get absolutely nowhere. As I remember it, the AI made this trade only a few days after I chose to take the team when the league went live. Argh! Then again, Otto retired before that actually happened, so my current crop of minor leaguers can be attributed to the fact that the team stunk ever since the '42 championship. __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development.

01-03-2005, 05:58 PM	#3244
Vris Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 3,251	Braves have 5, all from the '31 team. How disappointing things didn't turn around that decade. __________________ None Blog it.

01-03-2005, 11:07 PM	#3248
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	I didn't say no offense...but defense is what got me there You cite small sample size and forget the intangibles for my offensive 1st half of '49 In the second half...I let Mike Walker, Bill Risner pitch, basically because I had the pennant sewn up...much like the Colts not starting Payton Manning this week...I let rookies play September, I had many young guys taking ALOT of starts from my main guys to avoid injuries (didn't work) As for Billy Alexander...don't just look at range factor...look at his F% as well...yes Pokey had better range...but he couldn't match up to Alexander's F%...which in 1950 is .981...cleary better then anyone else...and add his 5.04 RF...that is the BEST SS in the game...he is not Ted Stuart, (especially with the bat) but he isn't far off defensive wise __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

01-04-2005, 03:14 AM	#3250
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	He just won't let me win Rossi, Wright and Moe had exceptional offense 1st halfs, and tailed off at year end...yet we still had a .642 winning%...you cite good pitching, I say because of slumps, I rearranged to have a better defense. I still say defense is more important than offense, and that if you use the right pitchers when thinking defense, you'll win __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

01-04-2005, 04:35 PM	#3253
canadiancreed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,660	and jsut an update on Moe April - .267/.303/.400 May - .500/.500/.917 Not too shabby for soomeone that's "washed-up" IO thikn he's even imspiring Jones to finally get his ass in gear __________________ PT21 PT22 Last edited by canadiancreed; 01-04-2005 at 04:37 PM.

01-03-2005, 07:59 PM	#3246
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Carlton wrote: > A debate I can actually WIN with John! > I am so happy...finally..lol > 1st my park factors must be taken > into account... I have slightly better > offensive park than the cards, Cool. So your slightly better hitters park really hard little to do with the fact that the 1949 Phils out scored their closest rivals by 98 runs, and allowed just 9 runs less. I'm not trying to say that the Phils didn't have better pitching and defense than the Cards. They did. What I'm trying to say is that they had Much Better offense than the Cards. You finished 17 games ahead of the Cards. Offense accounted for more of that gap than pitching and defense. > and ten fold moreso then the > Braves... so my defense was > spot on The Braves has a brutal park for dingers and 2B, and a bit below average for BA. I'm willing to concede that their pitching and defense wasn't as good as their raw Runs Allowed would indicate, and that their offense was better than their raw runs scored. Perhaps 50% of the gap with the Braves was offense, and 50% was pitching&defense. > 2nd Pokey was excellent at SS > before his range went to 1 (shocked > me...I was hoping 5 at least) and > then Billy Alexander (who is the > BEST defensive SS in TWB) started > the last 2 months at SS for us. Odd... Range Factor at SS: 5.71 - Pokey (50 starts) 5.13 - Perly (37 starts) 5.08 - Alexander (50 starts) I'm guessing that Alexander started all the games where your Flyball pitchers started. For reference, the Tigers' Castaneda was 5.33 and Howard in NY was a 5.35. Pokey was an exceptional SS before that 1 range cut in. It clearly is a flaw in the engine of OOTP that allows a Gold Glove 2B to move over and play SS better than not only the two Gold Glove winners, but also better than a player his own GM believes is the best in the game. Of course you also ignore the fact that you team had a better record with the Offense Intense line up rather than the Defense Intense line-up. I mean this is a club that played .724 ball through June, then cruised in with .624 ball the second half. > and pitching and defense doesn't > win championships? > > This is where I can play dirty to > win an arguement with John > > 1946 World Series Winner > > St. Louis (A) def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 2 You did beat a team with better offense, and worse pitching & defense (the Reds) to win the NL. Of course that ignores the fact that the best pitching&defense in the Frank Smith & Remmy Paul led Dodgers who allowed 58 fewer runs than the Phils. I don't think the difference in parks makes that gap go away. The Dodgers finished 8 games back. Why? 738 - Phils 687 - Dodgers Among the teams over .500 in the NL that year (Phils, Reds, Cards and Dodgers), the Dodgers had by far the best pitching&defense, while giving it up with by far the worst offense. They finished 4th out of those four teams. The Reds had by far the best offense, but probably the worst pitching&defense when the park is factored in. The Phils combined the balance of good offense with good pitching and won. The Browns were pretty much the same thing - good offense (18 more runs scored than the Phils and #2 in the AL) and strong pitching (amazingly 55 less runs allowed than the Phils and also #2 in the AL). The Phils won games 2-0, 2-1 and 2-1, losing one 2-1 as well. The also won one blow out 9-1, and dropped a blow out 8-0. It's pretty much impossible to see that great pitching&defense beat great offense, since the two teams were evenly matched up in both counts. The mirror image of the scores tends to confirm that. > 1948 World Series Winner > > Detroit def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 3 In the NL, the Phils and Cards were neck-and-neck in runs scored - 835 to 833. No one else in the NL was within 100 runs of them. As you say, the Phils and Cards parks are fairly close. We could correctly say that the Cards offense was a bit better if you factor it in. The Cards and the Phils were neck-and-neck for second place in runs allowed - 657 to 671, behind the Reds 637. The Reds were in a good pitchers park, while the Cards and Phils were in hitters parks. Toss the Reds behind the Cards & Phils because of that, but probably not a mile behind. The Braves were close behind with 692. Toss them out due to their pitchers park. The Cubs are interesting back at 725 runs allowed given their park. Probably a better combo of pitching&defense than the Braves, but probably not enough to catch the other three. The Phils and Cards (along with the Reds close by) had the best pitching&defense in the NL. The Phils and Cards were pretty interchangeable, but both combined the one of the two best offenses with one of the two (or three) best pitching&defense in the league, fought it down to the wire. But the gap between those two clubs and the rest of the best clubs in pitching&defense was less than the gap in offense. I suspect that would even be the case when the numbers are total crunched. Pitching&defense? Nah. Very strong balanced teams those two were. In the AL, the Tigers were #2 to the Red Sox in runs allowed, and then the next cluster of teams (Browns and Senators) were 39 runs back. Ironically, the Tigers and Red Sox also play in hitters parks. Ironically, the Tigers allowed one less run that the Phils. Perhaps the Phils have a better hitters park, and that would have made their staff slightly better. But not really much better. These were both among the better staffs in baseball. The Tigers scored 864 runs, most in the majors. It was 57 more than the Red Sox, with the next club 118 runs behind the Tigers. Cleary the Tigers won the AL on hitting a bit more than pitching. But the Red Sox and the Tigers were the best hitting and pitching teams in the AL. Very similar to the Phils and Cards in the NL, but more so. The Tigers were a better hitting team, but not by a great deal. The Phils were a better pitching&defense team, but probably by and even smaller margin. Did the alleged Great Pitching&Defense shut down the Tigers alleged Great Hitting? The Tigers averaged 5 runs a game against the Phils, which was considerably more than the Phils averaged giving up during the year. They outscored the Phils 35-33, which pretty much reflect how tight the series was - 6-9, 2-5, 8-9, 2-1, 5-3, 6-5 and 4-3. Did the Phils beat the Tigers on pitching&defense? Not really. Errors were costly to the Tigers in the last two games, but they also had been costly to the Phils earlier in the series. > 1949 World Series Winner > > Boston (A) def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 3 The Phils line-up in the World Series included the brutal Baker in RF, the stone gloved Rossi at 1B, the average at best Perly at 2B, and Dorsey (3B) and Crocitto (LF) totally out of position. This was a great defense? The Phils committed 9 errors in the series. Pitching&defense? Behind 5-4, 6-5, 13-7 wins prior to the 3-2 final? Or perhaps you're confusing the Phils with the Red Sox who shut down the Phils offense no less than three times in the series (3-2, 8-2, 5-1) _in addition_ to allowing just three runs in Game 7? Come on, everyone watching the series knows that the Phils brought offense to the table. > Yea, I know, but I am 0-10 against > John...so this one win as dirty as it > was won...is the best I can do Fighty dirty would be okay with me. I just wish it matched up with reality. John

01-03-2005, 08:23 PM	#3247
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	> It's still hard to imagine the > Cards and Yanks so far down > this list, and despite the great > Yankees dynasty, they have a > relatively weak representation. > Although Booth & Riley are likely > to go in soon. I suspect over time more Yanks will go in, if not in the BWAA then by the VC. They had a lot of very good players in that era, and many of them had Great Years. But for the most part they had things that kept them from having those Long Careers that so many of out HOFers had. I suspect that if Willard goes in, along with Dale Reneau already being in, that a wave of Yanks will go in. Moonlight Graham was a better player than Willard, and that's not even talking about the pitchers and Ditty and the Swervin and a bunch of others. > The Dodgers have just one, > but players from their dynasty > are just becoming eligible, and > they have two no-doubters in > Vancini & Smith. Speedy will go in with the steals record. Wright's candidacy has been helped by his strong post war play (two more batting titles pop out), and the addition of another title last year where he was terrific prior to the end of the season injury. Remy Paul is our Hal Newhouser, except that he was actually a excellent pitcher leading into the War. I think he's going to go in. Fellner wasn't part of the Great Dodgers teams of Oscar and Smith like the rest, but he played with all of those five players, was a starter on the last championship team, and I'm pretty confident that he'll end up in the HOF. John

01-04-2005, 01:38 AM	#3249
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Carlton wrote: > I didn't say no offense... > but defense is what got > me there Such as when the Dodgers had better pitching&defense than the Phils? Or when there really was no difference between the Phils and Cards in 1948? > You cite small sample size Actually, in each year I take a look at the entire sample size in the NL to see how the Phils won it. You are the one who cite the small sample size of winning World Series. I don't think even you would claim that coming from a 0-3 deficit in one series and going to Game 7 the following year in another tight series is any indication that your teams were clearly better in those series than the Tigers and Red Sox. I'll grant you that over the course of the 1949 season the Phils were clearly the best team in TWB. But offense would have had every bit as much to do with that as pitching&defense. > and forget the intangibles for > my offensive 1st half of '49 Intangibles? I thought I mentioned that you offense was exceptional last season. How much stronger would you like me to put it over? > In the second half...I let Mike Walker, Bill > Risner pitch, basically because I had the > pennant sewn up... Walker started 5 games, Risner started 11. 16 out of 154. They went a combined 9-4. > much like the Colts not starting Payton > Manning this week...I let rookies play No doubt. When you rolled out your B-Pitchers, and you Top Defenders, your team played less well. With your Top Pitchers, Frontline Offense and Weaker Defense running wild earlier in the year, you beat the snot out of the league. As far as one ignoring, you seem to be ignoring my comments on the various poor defenders you rolled out while winning - Rosi, Perly (at SS), Moe, Baker, etc. > As for Billy Alexander...don't just look at > range factor...look at his F% as well... > yes Pokey had better range...but he couldn't > match up to Alexander's F%...which in 1950 > is .981...cleary better then anyone else...and > add his 5.04 RF...that is the BEST SS in the > game...he is not Ted Stuart, (especially with > the bat) but he isn't far off defensive wise You're ****ting, right? Here's are the actual numbers of the 1949 Gold Glover in the NL vs. Alexander: RangeFactor 5.35 - Howard 5.08 - Alexander Fielding Percentage .984 - Howard .983 - Alexander Aw crap, since someone is going to ask, I might as well do the entire NL with everyone who played more than 300 innings at SS: RangeFactor 5.71 - Dorsey (460.0 Inn) 5.40 - Menard (948.2 Inn) 5.35 - Howard (1255.1 Inn) 5.33 - Bass (535.0 Inn) 5.22 - Shadle (1173.0 Inn) 5.13 - Perly (319.0 Inn) 5.12 - Barton (708.2 Inn) 5.10 - Stoller (1229.1 Inn) 5.08 - Alexander (422.0 Inn) 5.00 - Fellner (1145.2 Inn) 4.80 - Mayotte (1251.1 Inn) Fielding Percentage .984 - Howard (1255.1 Inn) .984 - Menard (948.2 Inn) .983 - Alexander (422.0 Inn) .977 - Fellner (1145.2 Inn) .974 - Shadle (1173.0 Inn) .973 - Barton (708.2 Inn) .968 - Perly (319.0 Inn) .967 - Dorsey (460.0 Inn) .963 - Stoller (1229.1 Inn) .960 - Mayotte (1251.1 Inn) .943 - Bass (535.0 Inn) Alexander may have the best Ratings as a SS in the game. He just didn't play like it last year. An oddity, much like Pokey playing out of his mind at SS despite not having the skills to do so. Call in an aberation of OOTP. Not the first, nor that last. But to claim Alexander tore it up at SS last year would be incorrect. He really didn't. John

01-04-2005, 04:30 PM	#3252
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	> He just won't let me win Of course not! > Rossi, Wright and Moe had exceptional offense > 1st halfs, and tailed off at year end... yet we > still had a .642 winning%... Wright: .478/.495/.667/1.162 - Apr (half with Dodgers) .333/.388/.505/.894 - May .375/.434/.615/1.049 - Jun .256/.320/.333/.653 - Jul .324/.398/.593/.991 - Aug .329/.395/.562/.957 - Sep He had a bad Jul. Otherwise, his Aug and Sept were inline with his .349/.405/.547/.952 seasonal average. 8 HR and 27 RBI in August in addition to the .324 BA is pretty lusty. Rossi hit .447/.469/.553/1.022 in September (playing full time), and was a down .311/.376/.425/.801 in August (though it was better than both his June and July. He really only was red hot in April (.407/.434/.659/1.094) before starting his slide in May (.342/.393/.474/.867 which for him is very good, though the 1 HR was telling). Moe was interesting, because he fell apart right on schedule after his birthday, then game back strong in August and September to close the year before the injury. I did a post either here or over at TWB on it. Rauch of course closed monsterously strong. > you cite good pitching, I say because > of slumps, I rearranged to have a better > defense. I've admitted throughout this that you had good pitching, and oddly good defense despite running out a brutal 1B (Rossi), an aging slowing 3B of medicore range (Moe), a brutal wing OF, and guys out of position all over the place. What I'm also saying is that perhaps the best and deepest team in TWB also had an exceptionally good offense. > I still say defense is more important > than offense, and that if you use > the right pitchers when thinking > defense, you'll win It depends on how we define "defense". If Defense = Pitching & Fielding, then I'd come close to agree - it's exactly as important as Offense. I do entirely agree with the notion of using the right pitchers and thinking fielding and what you also imply beneath it - the park. I think you also use the right positional players and think defense in that as well. Moe wasn't a great fielder. He wasn't horrible, but he wasn't great. His bat was awfully good, and his arm was strong, so if he got to them, he was pretty decent at throwing them out. You were willing to take a certain level of defense from him in return for the bat. Gold Gloves notwithstanding, Lonny was a horrible 1B other than catching the ball. No range, and no arm. But (i) he knocked the crap out of the ball, and (ii) you had Ted and Pokey up the middle. You were willing to accept subpar defense out of Lonny and Moe because they brought the bats, and Pokey and Ted brought the gloves. Baker can't field a lick. Horribly range and wet noodle arm. But in 1946-48, he brought a solid bat to the table, especially in his career year in 1948. You clearly took his bad defense along with his bat. Given your pitchers, the park, the defense around him and his own bat, you were willing to make the sacrifice. I think all of those weights are important in winning. The White Sox have a poor infield defense. They have a pretty darn good OF defense. Lord knows I wouldn't want a rotation full of GB pitchers with that IF. I also wouldn't want to add another bad defended to that IF unless (i) he brought a big bat, and (ii) looking at replacing one of the middle IFs with a much better glove. The Red Sox have a staggeringly bad infield defensively. Mets weighs that with the offense they bring to the table. In his place, I would do it slightly differently, even while admitting I love Skeeter (who's batter more than makes up for the glove, but is a problem up the middle next to another poor fielding guy like Morris). John

01-05-2005, 04:18 AM	#3255
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	One quick add on the SS fielding percentage discussion. The Jewler has a F% rating of .992 compared to Alexander's .983. Alexander of course has the 10 range and 9 arm, while Menard is 7/7. I'm willing to concede that Alexander is the better rated defensive SS, but of course I put less weight in F% than range... unless the F% is downright horrific. John

01-05-2005, 05:22 AM	#3256
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	you also have to take into account PO+A+DP per TC Looking at my defense, and my GB% pitching staff, my defense is better then it looks __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

01-05-2005, 01:34 PM	#3258
Matt from TN Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a funk.... Posts: 3,413	May 1950 This was a very interesting month for the AL. First off, the Athletics surprised everyone by going 20-8 and rocketing into first. They hold a steady 3-game lead over the White Sox and Browns. The two preseason favorites, Boston and Detroit, are both limping. Last season's AL ROTY Bud Ulrich of the Tigers suffered an elbow strain, but has been pitching through it. He is currently 3-3 with a 3.96 ERA, but he has gone past the 7th inning only once this month (and only twice past the 6th). Then the team lost slugging 3B Luther Ormiston (.306, 11 HR, 41 RBI) until late June with a torn groin muscle. In the top of the 8th inning during a 5-5 tie against the Indians in Cleveland, Boston lost two of their top players. During the first at-bat of the inning, shortstop Morris Lutske threw out a runner but ruptured a tendon in his arm, which will put him out until late July. During the very next at-bat, starting pitcher Bill Finley struck out Victor Estevez but Finley complained of serious elbow pain. Doctors later discovered that he tore a ligament and will be out for the rest of the season. That certainly puts a damper on the 37-year-old's quest for 300 wins, since he currently has a 260-201 career record. Several more trades went down over the past month, but perhaps the most surprising one saw last season's AL POTY Corky Stell delt to Cincinnati for closer extraordinaire Gene Masarech. The Sox obviously believe a strong closer was a key missing element for them to get to that coveted pennant. The open rotation spot was filled by 23-year-old Bourbon Allen Jr., son of the HOF'er with the same name. After spending the past two seasons in the bullpen, Allen made his first career start on May 24th against the Yankees, then shutout the AL-leading A's on May 28th and was promptly named POTW on May 30th. The White Sox also saw slugging 1B Lonny Arrendale hit a homerun in 7 straight games this month! He now leads the majors with 15 longballs, despite playing in one of the least homer-friendly home parks in baseball. Despite all the trades, the Phillies have moved into 1st place by 2.5 games over the Cardinals. Philly went 18-9 this month, while St. Louis went 15-13. Meanwhile, Boston went on a 9-game winning streak and finished 16-10 on the month and in 3rd place. The Braves took 4 of 6 from the Phils this month and started their winning streak with 2 wins against the Cards. They also swept the Pirates and Dodgers. In The News May 3: The Browns' Dennis Smith, troubled by the new rule that requires a one-second stop before delivery with men on base, balked four times in one game, a club record and two fewer than the single-season record. He allowed 10 runs (9 earned) in 5.1 innings in a 10-1 rout by Cleveland. May 12: Airplane travel is still a baseball rarity, but a railroad strike forced five clubs—the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Giants and Reds—to fly home or away to play their next scheduled games. The Senators, with shorter distances to travel, took the bus. May 13: Braves outfielder Mitch Leibowitz apologized to the hometown fans for "insulting gestures" he made in response to catcalls prompted by his 3rd inning error against St. Louis yesterday. After a solo homerun tied the game 1-1, Leibowitz's error allowed Cards SS Mike Fellner to advance to 2nd. Fellner was later thrown out at home and Boston went on to win 2-1, but Leibowitz still heard the jeers from fans. Mitch currently has nearly twice as many errors (9) as any other outfielder in the majors. American League-Pitcher of the Month: Cotton Simson (SLA)! He had a record of 6-1 in 7 games started, with an ERA of 2.48 and 1 shutouts. American League-Batter of the Month: Howard "Bud" Ayers (PHA)! He batted .472 in 72 AB, with 8 homers and 27 RBI. National League-Pitcher of the Month: Scottie Allen (BSN)! He had a record of 6-1 in 7 games started, with an ERA of 1.68 and 3 shutouts. National League-Batter of the Month: Tom Howard (NYG)! He batted .423 in 97 AB, with 6 homers and 18 RBI. Code: American League Standings Philadelphia (A) 32 19 .627 - Chicago (A) 29 22 .569 3.0 St. Louis (A) 29 22 .569 3.0 Detroit 27 23 .540 4.5 Boston (A) 24 28 .462 8.5 New York (A) 24 29 .453 9.0 Cleveland 21 29 .420 10.5 Washington 18 32 .360 13.5 National League Standings Philadelphia (N) 33 17 .660 - St. Louis (N) 31 20 .608 2.5 Boston (N) 28 21 .571 4.5 New York (N) 26 25 .510 7.5 Cincinnati 23 28 .451 10.5 Chicago (N) 22 28 .440 11.0 Pittsburgh 20 30 .400 13.0 Brooklyn 19 33 .365 15.0 AL AVG .396 Cy Helbig, BOS .389 Peaches Badeau, PHA .375 Jimmy Ditty, NYA NL AVG .403 Tom Howard, NYG .386 Ogden Wing, STL .372 Ed Rossi, CHN AL HOMERUNS 15 Lonny Arrendale, CHA 14 Ray Kress, DET 12 Cy Helbig, BOS NL HOMERUNS 14 Ken Chaucer, BSN 13 Ervin Thompson, NYG 12 Four Players Tied AL RBI 51 Cy Helbig, BOS 46 Matt Perly, DET 46 Ray Kress, DET NL RBI 49 Joe Rodabaugh, NYG 40 Ervin Thompson, NYG 38 Vince Thimpson, CHN AL STEALS 15 Hershel Cooley, PHA 14 Hans habermehl, PHA 13 David Oram, CHA 13 Homer Jewell, CHA NL STEALS 27 Ben Cook, STL 18 Jonny Perly, PHI 14 Jack Zenisek, BSN AL ERA 2.12 Cotton Simson, SLA 3.27 Ellis Weeks, PHA 3.61 Carpenter Erickson, NYA NL ERA 1.97 Willard Carte, PHI 2.48 Scottie Allen, BSN 2.58 Hal Lepre, CIN AL WINS 11 Cotton Simson, SLA 8 Hal Andrew, DET 8 Johnny Gordley, CHA NL WINS 9 Scottie Allen, BSN 8 Willard Carte, PHI 8 Bob Bussmann, PHI AL STRIKEOUTS 91 Carpenter Erickson, NYA 81 Cotton Simson, SLA 71 Chubby Allen, SLA NL STRIKEOUTS 72 Scottie Allen, BSN 67 John Nolting, PHI 61 Ron Fleischmann, PIT AL SAVES 9 Lloyd Wyman, DET 9 Tim Knapp, CHA 8 Cal Granger, PHA NL SAVES 9 John Quinney, STL 7 Sam Fontana, BKN 7 George Curd, CHN Last edited by Matt from TN; 01-05-2005 at 02:55 PM.