Time Warp Baseball

[canadiancreed]

Doesnt hurt to ask

[Carlton]

Believe me, I know...I was gonna throw in Sisk to get Smith, but I couldn't...it be like today's ball...and I'd be even more despised as the Evil Empire and Smith would be know as a great sell out.

[canadiancreed]

I'd look at it as more saving the last sailor on a sinking ship but that analogy works too

[DamnYankees]

Ok, is this a first? My two ancestors being traded for each other? Alter for Irving?

metsgeek, I must say I'm a tad saddened as a died in the wool Nation lifer. Alter was the man, about to break out. Let's hope you didn't just pull a Pedro/DeLino.

[canadiancreed]

It is different for sure

I just realized that I've got three ancestors on my team.....geeze didnt even realize that I was collecting them.

*starts calling the Pirates, Dodgers, and Sens for the rest of the half dozen*

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

Ok, is this a first? My two ancestors being traded for each other? Alter for Irving?

I think it may be a first. That's weird

metsgeek, I must say I'm a tad saddened as a died in the wool Nation lifer. Alter was the man, about to break out. Let's hope you didn't just pull a Pedro/DeLino.

I apologize, but I wanted to plug some holes, and I always have been more of a fan of batting prospects rather than pitching prospects. On the flip side, St. Louis should hope they didn't just pull a Bagwell/Andersen

I'm hoping both sides work out.

[DamnYankees]

Well, it would be cool to have my two grandfathers in the same infield, for sure. Irving is a liittle raw though, and his talent in contact has already dropped from a 9 (when drafted) to a 7. Dunno what to do about him. I'll just root root root.

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by metsgeek

I think it may be a first. That's weird

I apologize, but I wanted to plug some holes, and I always have been more of a fan of batting prospects rather than pitching prospects. On the flip side, St. Louis should hope they didn't just pull a Bagwell/Andersen

I'm hoping both sides work out.

LMAO

That is so eerie...he just mentioned the reason for the REAL Red Sox Curse....all batting no pitching

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by Carlton

LMAO

That is so eerie...he just mentioned the reason for the REAL Red Sox Curse....all batting no pitching

Never heard that explanation before. And I didn't say that I like batting over pitching....I said like batting prospects over pitching prospects. The game seems to treat them better in my experience. I prefer trading for established pitchers.

[Carlton]

Really?

That's a given...the reason the Sox never won in 86 years was not Babe Ruth (although what a GREAT story...baseball has wonderful tales, reason why I love it) but because the ownership always went for a Ted WIlliams, Pesky, Yaz, Rice, Evans and usually just threw pitchers as an afterthought...and with Fenway...that was a formula for failure. Pitching and defense wins championships. Offense gets the front page of the sports pages

[Matt from TN]

I guess you like playing in hitter-friendly Fenway then mets?

And speaking of stories, we have a few curses of our own.

The A's haven't won a WS since 1906, despite several pennants. Call that the Phillie curse though, because their city-mates took it to them a few times.

Then we have the loveable Pirates who haven't even won a pennant since that great 1908-12 run with new HOF'ers Scott Podlasek & "Ray of Light" Brown.

But I imagine the biggest curse of all could come down on the White Sox after the scandal of 1919.

[pat]

Originally Posted by metsgeek

On the flip side, St. Louis should hope they didn't just pull a Bagwell/Andersen

Hopefully not. *knocks on wood*, *crossed fingers*, *prays*.

[jdw]

> Pitching and defense wins championships.

Offense wins championships just as much as pitching and defense. The Reds in 1976 beat a trio of teams with better pitching and defense - the Dodgers for the division, the Phils for the NL, and the Yanks for the WS. The offense was staggeringly good. In 1975, the pitching and defense was in the same range as the Dodgers, Pirates and Red Sox they beat for the same honors. The offense was vastly superior.

The 75-76 Reds are hardly unique.

I think you'd also find that most methods the crunches offense would show the Red Sox offenses that you're pointing to really weren't as great as they appeared to be - the park made them look like that. In contrast, their pitching and defense wasn't as bad as one would think. It's a little ironic that James crunches both the 1949 and 1978 Yanks offenses to be better than the Sox teams they beat, and in contrast crunches the Sox to have better pitching+defense.

In real life, there isn't any magic formula to winning. Teams have won championships in more different ways that we could count with varying degress of balance or extremes, and also flat out flukey nonsense like the 1973 Mets or 1987 Twins.


John

[jdw]

> But I imagine the biggest curse
> of all could come down on the
> White Sox after the scandal of
> 1919.

Ironically, the Black Sox won the World Series the *following season*. Even more ironic, they did it with all the soon-to-be-banned players being allowed to play. The ultimate irony was that the biggest cheat in TWB history, Eddie "The Fixer" Whelan, was given the ball to start Game 9 of the 1920 Series:

A Look At Eddie The Fixer's WS Career


John

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by jdw

> Pitching and defense wins championships.

Offense wins championships just as much as pitching and defense. The Reds in 1976 beat a trio of teams with better pitching and defense - the Dodgers for the division, the Phils for the NL, and the Yanks for the WS. The offense was staggeringly good. In 1975, the pitching and defense was in the same range as the Dodgers, Pirates and Red Sox they beat for the same honors. The offense was vastly superior.

The 75-76 Reds are hardly unique.

I think you'd also find that most methods the crunches offense would show the Red Sox offenses that you're pointing to really weren't as great as they appeared to be - the park made them look like that. In contrast, their pitching and defense wasn't as bad as one would think. It's a little ironic that James crunches both the 1949 and 1978 Yanks offenses to be better than the Sox teams they beat, and in contrast crunches the Sox to have better pitching+defense.

In real life, there isn't any magic formula to winning. Teams have won championships in more different ways that we could count with varying degress of balance or extremes, and also flat out flukey nonsense like the 1973 Mets or 1987 Twins.

John

Thanks, John

Even if unintended, I feel it was a defense of my strategy. Everyone else, here's your chance to mock the BoSox....I'll be offline until Tues. night.

[jdw]

> Thanks, John
>
> Even if unintended, I feel it was a defense of
> my strategy.

Your start probably would work in real life, to some degree. In OOTP... who knows. It's a SIM, so stacking things in certain ways can expliot it. For example, playing in the Astro Dome an stacking the team with a core of extreme flyball pitchers, backing them with off the charts range in the OF, etc. In Real Life, you would get a bump that way. But in a SIM, you could get an extreme bump.

I think we've all played SIM that have real "splits" for pitchers and hitters, and found spots in the line-up to platoon at, and ended up with hitters far exceeding their real life numbers because they get that triple bonus:

* Righties hit LHP better
* RH Player X hits LHP much better
* LHP Pitcher Y throws to RH batters much worse

When I replay 1993 in some SIM games, I can get 31 HR out of Brian Jordan in about 238 PA, almost all against RHP, by exploiting his real life .365/.412/.825 split in about 70 PAs against lefites. Dittos on Lou Whitaker the same year against righties.

So I don't doubt there are ways to expliot blind spots in the game engine of OOTP, and they're probably well known by those of you who play it a lot. We all know the AI GM is horrid in most any "standard" setting, and it can be exploited worse than the KC A's were by the Yanks in the 50s.

So "pitching and defense" may be one are to do it. When I look at the Phils last year, I see a team that allowed just 9 less runs than the Cards last year, and 24 less than the Braves. On the other hand, they scored 98 more runs than the Cards, and 117 more than the Braves. I don't think the parks accounted for a great deal of that margin. Frankly, the Phils didn't field a great defense last season. Rossi had poor range at 1B. Perly was unacceptable at SS, and moved over to 2B where he was just average. Pokey was a great 2B playing out of position at SS where his range ended up being a 1. Crocitto was a mediocre SS/2B playing out of position as a back up 3B. Moe was of limited range at 3B. I don't want to say it was the worst IF in TWB, but it's wasn't so hot. Rhino was an above average LF, Baker is a brutal RF with no range and a wet noddle for an arm. When Pokey was out of position, the team had exactly two good fielders - Rauch who was exceptional behind the plate and Artie in CF who combined good range with an average arm.

Now the Phils *did* have some great pitching to go with their strong offense.


John

[Carlton]

A debate I can actually WIN with John! I am so happy...finally..lol

1st my park factors must be taken into account...I have slightly better offensive park than the cards, and ten fold moreso then the Braves...so my defense was spot on

2nd Pokey was excellent at SS before his range went to 1 (shocked me...I was hoping 5 at least) and then Billy Alexander (who is the BEST defensive SS in TWB) started the last 2 months at SS for us.

and pitching and defense doesn't win championships?

This is where I can play dirty to win an arguement with John

1946 World Series Winner

St. Louis (A) def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 2

1948 World Series Winner

Detroit def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 3

1949 World Series Winner

Boston (A) def by Philadelphia (N) 4 to 3


Yea, I know, but I am 0-10 against John...so this one win as dirty as it was won...is the best I can do

[Matt from TN]

1950 Offseason News

Only one managerial change took place this offseason. The Browns quietly hired former Dodgers manager Moose Mosley to take over the helm. St. Louis then went out and acquired former A's pitcher Chubby Allen from the Cubs. They later traded the well-liked Cy Helbig and prospects (including their top offensive prospect Irving Korr) to the Red Sox for centerfielder Al Arsenault, top-notch pitching prospect Alter Sennelnekoff, outfielder Mason Longhan and a minor leaguer.

Pittsburgh made some waves by acquiring three pitchers from Brooklyn, and the Dodgers then traded 1949 ROTY Matt Keyes Jr. and slugging infielder Mike Fellner to the Cardinals.

The Phillies shipped pitcher Garland Sisk and outfielder Artie Albrecht to the Giants for long-time pitcher Randall Bray, who started his career with the Phils, third baseman Ken Pazik, and two minor leaguers - pitcher Danny Mau and an incredible 1B talent in Paul Lett.

The Cubs made headlines by acquiring shortstop Doc Barton and pitchers Ernie Janke and Schoolboy Emberling from the Reds and then catcher Gus Tioni from the Browns.

In The News

The 1940s is the only decade in ML baseball history in which no new stadiums are built. The 1940s ended with a few black player on major league rosters, but not all teams have yet integrated. Most teams set attendance records in the 1940s. There were 81 scheduled night games in 1940 and 384 in 1949. The change to playing under the lights was underscored by the release of the 1950 schedule. The Cardinals were given permission to open the season with the Dodgers in a night game.

Nov 1: Gillette bought the World Series television rights for $1.37 million. The money is to be dedicated to the players pension fund.

Dec 1: Attendance in the ML was down by 700,000 from 1948. The Browns season attendance plummeted to 270,000.

Dec 12: By a 7-1 vote, the American League rejected a proposal to bring back the legal spitball. The rules committee also altered the strike zone to the space between the armpits and the top of the knees. The new rule eliminates the batter's shoulders being within the strike zone.

Hall of Fame

The following players were elected to the HOF in 1950:

Jethro "Dodge" Lee, SP
Cap: Senators
Inducted: BBWAA 95.0%
Teams: Washington A.L. 1926-1944
Plaque: Lee was a hard-nosed pitcher who dominated the AL for most of his 19-year career. He won 20+ games an amazing 14 times, threw 2 no-hitters, won 6 POY's and 2 World Series. He set a still-standing AL record with 220 K's in 1938. He became the 1st pitcher to ever reach 400 wins or 3000 K's. He retired with a 400-207 record (Most Wins All-Time), 2.85 ERA (15th All-Time), 1421 BB, 3231 K's (1st All-Time), 523 CG (3rd All-Time), 58 SHO (8th All-Time) and a 1.14 WHIP. His dominance of the AL is further evident by the fact that he led the league in ERA 7 times, in WHIP 5 times, in wins 3 times and in K's a staggering 11 times.


Kid Fite, 2B
Cap: Tigers
Inducted: BBWAA 95.0%
Teams: Detroit A.L. 1922-1933, Boston A.L. 1933-1938, Philadelphia N.L. 1938-1942, Cleveland A.L. 1942-1944
Plaque: Fite had a marvelous 23-year career in which he retired with the 2nd most hits and runs of all-time. He won a WS with Detroit in 1928 and went on to win another with the Indians in 1942, hitting .415 in those two WS. He also won 2 batting titles and holds the AL record with a .427 average in 1926. He retired with a .329 average (20th all-time), 3699 hits (2nd all-time), 472 doubles, 243 homeruns (16th all-time and most ever for a 2B), 1683 RBI (7th all-time), 1962 runs scored (2nd all-time), 1487 walks (7th all-time) and 472 steals.


George "The General" Ward, RF
Cap: Braves
Inducted: BBWAA 75.0%
Teams: Boston N.L. 1923-1944
Plaque: Ward was a big hit early on in Boston. Upon becoming an everyday player in 1926, he won his first of three straight NL batting titles and won 5 overall. He won 2 GG's, had 2 hitting streaks of 25 or more games and won the 1931 WS with the Braves. He retired with a .327 average (22nd all-time), 3374 hits (6th all-time), 456 doubles, 120 homeruns, 1392 RBI, 1572 runs scored (16th all-time) and 1171 walks.


Scott Podlasek, RF
Cap: Pirates
Inducted: VC
Teams: Pittsburgh N.L. 1901-1915
Plaque: Podlasek was the top power hitter of his generation. In 1911, he became the first player in baseball history to hit 100 career homeruns. Five years later, he was still the only player to have surpassed that total. He finished his career with a .305 average (25th Best All-Time), 2354 hits (4th Most All-Time), 117 home runs (Most All-Time), 461 doubles (Most All Time), 960 RBI (4th Most All-Time), 1006 Runs (8th Most All-Time) and 878 walks (3rd Most All-Time). He and Dark Horse Allen were easily the best hitters in baseball's first generation (those who were age 24+ in 1901). He won 6 Gold Gloves and was a major part of the Pirates only World Champion team in 1909.


"Ray of Light" Brown, CF
Cap: Pirates
Inducted: VC
Teams: Pittsburgh N.L. 1908-1926
Plaque: Brown's nickname fit him well. When his career started, he was a "ray of light" for a Pittsburgh franchise that had struggled in its infancy. In his rookie season, the Pirates went worst-to-first and captured the first pennant in team history. They went on to win 4 pennants in 5 years - also winning the 1911 World Series - and formed one of the best teams in NL history. Brown was at the core of that team. Over his career, he won the 1911 and 1917 BOY Awards and 11 Gold Gloves. To this day (1950) he is still considered the best fielding outfielder to have ever played. He finished his career with a .300 average, 2526 hits (22nd All Time), 339 doubles, 368 triples (7th All Time), 130 home runs (4th All Time), 1155 RBI (14th All Time), 1314 runs scored (13th All Time), 828 walks and 167 stolen bases.

*Note that all rankings (i.e. 2nd All-Time) were at the time of the players retirement. What happened after they retired does not reflect on their plaque.

[Matt from TN]

April 1950

Welcome to the Fifties, all!

The White Sox jumped out to a 2.5-game lead in the AL after some national publications claimed they would be a big disappointment this season. Meanwhile, the Red Sox pitching is costing them games this year, and the Tigers were playing very well before losing their last four games. The team many people are beginning to talk about are the Browns, who find themselves in 2nd place. They are statistically the best team in the AL so far, thanks largely to the presence of Chubby Allen in the rotation and Al Arsenault batting 3rd. Allen is providing the first significant pitching help outside of Cotton Simson since the 1946 pennant-winning team got a 22-10 record and 2.93 ERA out of Eugene Sprecher. Arsenault recently blasted the Red Sox for trading him after spending 20 years with the organization. "I'm going to go out and prove they were wrong in trading me," said Arsenault. "I'm going to do everything I can to help take the Browns to the World Series. And I hope the Sox never win another pennant as long as I'm alive."

The Cardinals ended a heated month with a 1-game lead over the Phillies and a 1.5-game lead over the Giants.

The Cubs continued to build a contender by acquiring popular slugging catcher Chuck Rauch, 1B Ed Rossi, pitcher Dan Volpe and a minor leaguer from the Phillies for five young players, including bonus player Walter Davis. Unfortunately, on April 28th, outfielder Cliff Wynne tore a thigh muscle and is expected to miss the rest of the season.

Philadelphia then shipped rightfielder Nicky Barker, 3B Ken Pazik and pitcher Ed Lacivita to the Braves for RF James Lewis and 2B Joe Bardo. Many Phillies fans have been outspoken over the appearance of their team trading away most of their good players instead of working for yet another pennant. "If we don't win the pennant this year," one fan said, "that GM should be run outta town."

In The News

April 5: President Harry Truman threw out two balls at the Washington opener—one left-handed and the other right-handed—then watched the Senators lose to Cleveland 8-1. When rain started falling in the 6th, he put on a raincoat and remained to the end of the game.



American League-Pitcher of the Month:
Cotton Simson (SLA)!
He had a record of 5-0 in 6 games started, with an ERA of 1.70 and 1 shutouts.

American League-Batter of the Month:
Cy Helbig (BOS)!
He batted .402 in 87 AB, with 3 homers and 24 RBI.

National League-Pitcher of the Month:
Willard Carte (PHI)!
He had a record of 4-0 in 5 games started, with an ERA of 1.48 and 1 shutouts.

National League-Batter of the Month:
Ogden Wing (STL)!
He batted .469 in 96 AB, with 5 homers and 24 RBI.

American League Standings 
  
Chicago (A)      16  7 .696 - 
St. Louis (A)    14 10 .583 2.5
Boston (A)       13 10 .565 3.0
Detroit          13 11 .542 3.5
Philadelphia (A) 12 11 .522 4.0 
Cleveland        11 13 .458 5.5 
New York (A)      8 16 .333 8.5
Washington        7 16 .304 9.0
 
National League Standings 
 
St. Louis (N)    16  7 .696 -
Philadelphia (N) 15  8 .652 1.0 
New York (N)     15  9 .625 1.5
Boston (N)       12 11 .522 4.0
Brooklyn          9 14 .391 7.0
Cincinnati        9 14 .391 7.0
Pittsburgh        9 15 .375 7.5
Chicago (N)       8 15 .348 8.0

AL AVG
.402 Cy Helbig, BOS
.398 John Young, NYA
.387 David Castaneda, DET

NL AVG
.469 Ogden Wing, STL
.383 Tom Howard, NYG
.380 Chris Hulliberger, CHN

AL HOMERUNS
7 Ray Kress, DET
7 Luther Ormiston, DET
6 Bobby Johnson, BOS

NL HOMERUNS
7 Ken Chaucer, BSN
7 Ervin Thompson, NYG
6 Chuck Rauch, CHN
6 Herman Dunkel, STL

AL RBI
28 Don Myer, BOS
26 Bobby Johnson, BOS
24 Matt Perly, DET
24 Cy Helbig, BOS

NL RBI
24 Ogden Wing, STL
24 Nick Pursell, NYG
20 Ervin Thompson, NYG

AL STEALS
8 David Oram, CHA
8 Homer Jewell, CHA
7 Hershel Cooley, PHA

NL STEALS
12 Ben Cook, STL
11 Jonny Perly, PHI
8 Ogden Wing, STL

AL ERA
1.70 Cotton Simson, SLA
2.23 Bud Ulrich, DET
2.45 Roy Wolfe, DET

NL ERA
1.48 Willard Carte, PHI
1.54 Hal Lepre, CIN
2.38 Bob Bussmann, PHI

AL WINS
5 Cotton Simson, SLA
4 Chubby Allen, SLA
4 Bernard Homic, CLE

NL WINS
5 Jack Schoonover, NYG
4 Five Players Tied

AL STRIKEOUTS
42 Carpenter Erickson, NYA
39 George Kauffman, CLE
35 Bob Stevens, PHA
35 Cotton Simson, SLA

NL STRIKEOUTS
33 Ron Fleischmann, PIT
33 John Nolting, PHI
31 Scottie Allen, BSN

AL SAVES
6 Herman Curoe, SLA
4 Joe Koppenmeier, CLE
3 Three Players Tied

NL SAVES
5 Doyle Weaver, PHI
4 Bob Rustia, BSN
4 Jacob Walensky, NYG

[Matt from TN]

For those who might be wondering, here's how the HOF looks in 1950:

Braves (5):
Ray Hobbs, 1947
Bourbon Allen, 1947
Otto Kahle, 1949
John Schmeider, 1949
George Ward, 1950

Phillies (5):
John Falise, 1937
Scott Fenner, 1944
Mark Krosser, 1946
Dark Horse Allen, 1946
Dale Reneau, 1948

Athletics (4):
Ahrend Nagel, 1942
Ben Baum, 1945
Jerry Hertzog, 1948
Sal Rossi, 1949

Cubs (4):
Harry Cohan, 1938
Bowie Castellon, 1943
Levi Walls, 1946
Punchy Cote, 1949

Senators (4):
Tom Turley, 1940
Will Miller, 1942
Dave McBean, 1946
Jethro Lee, 1950

Pirates (3):
Sam Kass, 1947
Scott Podlasek, 1950
"Ray of Light" Brown, 1950

White Sox (3):
Andrew Murphy, 1936
Flaky Arsenault, 1941
Jed Burke, 1944

Cardinals (2):
Tim Lopresto, 1936
Woody Woodson, 1936

Giants (2):
Whitey Kohse, 1940
Campbell Ditty, 1940

Indians (2):
Whiskey Allen, 1937
Patrick Seifried, 1948

Red Sox (2):
Genaro Nunez, 1936
Tyrell Chestnut, 1946

Yankees (2):
Gus Kahle, 1949
Johnny Cakes Sutton, 1949

Browns (1):
Raymond Gindler, 1937

Dodgers (1):
Allen Albertini, 1940

Reds (1):
Cecil Tan, 1938

Tigers (1):
Kid Fite, 1950



The Tigers were the last team to get a player inducted when Fite went in this January. It's still hard to imagine the Cards and Yanks so far down this list, and despite the great Yankees dynasty, they have a relatively weak representation. Although Booth & Riley are likely to go in soon. The Dodgers have just one, but players from their dynasty are just becoming eligible, and they have two no-doubters in Vancini & Smith. Plus, more proof that the Senators have quietly been a quality franchise for some time. And with this many Braves, it's even more disappointing that they did not win more pennants (or the A's a WS).