Historical database issues go here. - Page 15

BaseballMan · 08-31-2024, 10:56 AM

Another problem is that the transaction team ids don't always match the players and ids.
For example.in 1878 the team id in the historical transaction uses In1 for Indianapolis.
Fred Warner's team id for 1878 is IN3.
Indianapolis's team id is IN3.
The game will skip this transaction because the team ids don't match.
If you change the team id for Indianapolis to IN1 before proceeding to next season then the players that have IN3 in their real life stats wiill not import to Indianapolis.
So its either choose import correct players or have historical transactions work.
It would really help if the game allowed players to change the historical transactions if they choose too.
Say they don't want Babe Ruth traded to the Yankees.
They could set all the transactions they want without having to do it manually.

BaseballMan · 08-31-2024, 11:11 AM

I did find that i could proceed to the next season to get the imported players. Then i s could sim to dec 31st and change Indys abbreviation to IN1 and so the game will process the Fred Warner signing with Indy on Jan 1 1878.
My only concern is that if its not a 1 year team then it might mess up the team history.

LansdowneSt · 08-31-2024, 12:25 PM

The trouble is that the team you are seeking to assign them to may not exist in that year within the game. At that point assigning them to the team will result in no Real Stats tab and just a player husk coming in. Assigning them to another literal team (and it can be same name different year for appearance) was the only way for the game to import their real stats. It was a band-aid that works because all 19th c teams are part of an inaugural draft. The transactions you are trying to use exist but are not supported.

LansdowneSt · 08-31-2024, 01:22 PM

There is a csv of Transactions in the histroical.database.odb file with 279,101 rows with every ID. It looks like it goes back to 1900 in prep for the 1901- period that the game can accommodate. So, you could change/find all the NYAs that Ruth has and make them PIT or something. Or delete them. I assume that's the file to mod but I'm just guessing. The Dr. Doom tool will crack the db open for modding purposes.

BaseballMan · 08-31-2024, 06:01 PM

It would make it much easier for historical players if they just used the real team ids and abbreviations.
Allowing easy access to the historical transactions would be great.
I know Yankee haters would love to be able to see the Yankees make those trades with the A's in the 1950s. Or A's fans not seeing Charley Finley trading away all those A's stars in the 70s.
Or maybe you want to see McGwire, Sosa and Bonds all traded to the Cubs for their whole career.
Let the game import players with their real life stats but let us have the option of having them go where we would like.
Automatic historical trans action or a automatic what if historical transaction.

AESP_pres · 09-01-2024, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

My only concern is that if its not a 1 year team then it might mess up the team history.

It doesn't happen with teams who played more than one year... my advice since this is what I do is to change the historical team id at the end of the season when the team is created (or after you created it yourself since the game won't create every team who played in real life) that way the trade will be fine... btw some teams will changed their franchise id sometimes after a season (from memory it will happened with Louisville, Philadelphia (ath) and Colombus) also in 1892 change St. Louis (Browns) franchise id to STL or the trades won't work.

AESP_pres · 09-01-2024, 02:29 PM

Not that big of a deal and maybe you corrected it this summer but George Sharrot (sharro001geo) real life stats for 1894 are incorrect. He was the starting pitcher 3 games that season not 2...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...harrge01.shtml

BaseballMan · 09-01-2024, 05:25 PM

Even if theres no historical lineup Anson should still be in the lineup as the LF.
Why would it have a guy that started far fewer games start more than Anson?
I restarted from 1876 and used fielding by season.
This time Anson started the same as he did in real life but still not at LF. Instead it was at 2B.

It may be the historical lineup selection option.
I checked it because i want to use it for the modern era.
We could estimate for the 19th century for historical lineups but i would prefer to just use starting pitchers unless more data becomes available.

With far fewer teams and players in a season.
It might cause more problem like the one i am having.
Plus if you start sitting the best players against bad teams then those bad teams have a better chance than they should have.
Or if you sit them against all good team then the team has less chance against good teams.

I suppose you could take games started at a position and maybe average out his days off. You could keep the lineups pretty basic but i don't know if it would be much improvement.

AESP_pres · 09-01-2024, 05:49 PM

I think you replied in the wrong thread... but I will reply here because that would make no sense to do it in the other one.

I use real lineup even if they don't work in my simulation so it's not the problem (I think). You didn't say but do you set recalc to one season only (because it's what I use and not 3 or 5 years).

You're right the only reliable line-up option is the starting pitcher (at least for the NL since it doesn't work for the American Association, the National Association, the Player League and the Union Association). I only changed what the game does if it doesn't make sense like a player playing every games when he wasn't in real life... I suspend a player when he reached the ammount of game he played in a season (TBH I only started doing this a couple of season ago) and like I said before I only put a player on a team when he played his first game in real life.

PS: this is why my replay thread is on hold since I wait to reach 1901 to post again since almost everything will be as in real life.

AESP_pres · 09-02-2024, 09:56 AM

Another small error in the 1894 real stats... Fritz Clausen started two games that year for Chicago not one as written in the game.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...lausfr01.shtml

LansdowneSt · 09-02-2024, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Another small error in the 1894 real stats... Fritz Clausen started two games that year for Chicago not one as written in the game.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...lausfr01.shtml

Fixed. Pitching line had 2, Fielding had 2 but Batting had 1 GS. All are set to 2 now.

BaseballMan · 09-02-2024, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

I think you replied in the wrong thread... but I will reply here because that would make no sense to do it in the other one.

I use real lineup even if they don't work in my simulation so it's not the problem (I think). You didn't say but do you set recalc to one season only (because it's what I use and not 3 or 5 years).

You're right the only reliable line-up option is the starting pitcher (at least for the NL since it doesn't work for the American Association, the National Association, the Player League and the Union Association). I only changed what the game does if it doesn't make sense like a player playing every games when he wasn't in real life... I suspend a player when he reached the ammount of game he played in a season (TBH I only started doing this a couple of season ago) and like I said before I only put a player on a team when he played his first game in real life.

PS: this is why my replay thread is on hold since I wait to reach 1901 to post again since almost everything will be as in real life.

I have recalc potential ratings based on 1 year. Don't remember exact settings from creation of league.
I thought about suspending players but i don't want to to handicap a team.

Some players are signed in a year but never play for their new team in that year.
If its in offseason it doesn't matter.
If it happens in the regular season you could suspend the player.
I will just look at as a player was available but just didn't play.

AESP_pres · 09-02-2024, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I thought about suspending players but i don't want to to handicap a team.

The game kind of force me to do it because the teams almost never changed the starting line-up from day one... so a lot of players are just used as pinch hitter when they played some games in real life. This is why even if I love to play 19th century I can't wait to reach 1901 since the real line-up works so the players start games as they did in real life and it goes faster because I don't have to micro manage everything.

AESP_pres · 09-03-2024, 10:30 AM

Jesse Tanehill have the same error than Fritz Clausen in 1894... only one game started is his real life pitching stats (he had two in real life) but correct in the real fielding (2 games started).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...anneje01.shtml

LansdowneSt · 09-03-2024, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Jesse Tanehill have the same error than Fritz Clausen in 1894... only one game started is his real life pitching stats (he had two in real life) but correct in the real fielding (2 games started).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...anneje01.shtml

Fixed his batting and pitching lines in 1894. Be sure to say the year you are citing too so it saves me time. thx

BaseballMan · 09-03-2024, 11:11 AM

The problem with just taking transaction dates is that some players are traded the same day
they played a game.

Take Eddie Fusselback.
He was released by St.Louis on 8/23/1882.
However that was after he started a game against Pittsburgh on 8/23/1882.

I think there are three ways ootp could handle cases like that.
Ootp could just move the trade date to the day before or after the actual date.
Depending on if he was making a start for his old team or new team.
Or ootp could designate transactions involving those time of cases to be traded after
completion of the day's games and before proceeding to next day.

Would or does this happen when you use historical lineups?

BaseballMan · 09-03-2024, 11:53 AM

1882 Baltimore's Bill Geiss is listed as released on 9/1/1882 in the historical transactions.
He was the starting pitcher for Baltimore on 9/3/1882.
So he could not have been released on 9/1/1882.

In 1882 Jimmy Say was traded from Philadelphia to Louisville and then back to Philadelphia.
The game only has him traded from Louisville to Philadelphia.

AESP_pres · 09-03-2024, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Ootp could just move the trade date to the day before or after the actual date.

This is how I do it for the rookie players... I assigned them to the team they played in real life the day before they played their first game going with BBref data, so if a guy is on my list for september 3, by exemple, I will sign him with his team september 2 before hitting "auto play untill tomorrow".

Never thought it was a problem with the real trade... guess I will have to check when I will reach 1901.

AESP_pres · 09-05-2024, 12:58 PM

Another picher real stats error for 1894... George Nicol have a missing starting game in his pitching real stat (the fielding one is correct), he started 7 games in real life that season but his real life stats list 6 (the missing one is a game with Louisville).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...icolge01.shtml

LansdowneSt · 09-05-2024, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Another picher real stats error for 1894... George Nicol have a missing starting game in his pitching real stat (the fielding one is correct), he started 7 games in real life that season but his real life stats list 6 (the missing one is a game with Louisville).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...icolge01.shtml

fixed. Batting line too.

08-31-2024, 12:25 PM	#283
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,641	The trouble is that the team you are seeking to assign them to may not exist in that year within the game. At that point assigning them to the team will result in no Real Stats tab and just a player husk coming in. Assigning them to another literal team (and it can be same name different year for appearance) was the only way for the game to import their real stats. It was a band-aid that works because all 19th c teams are part of an inaugural draft. The transactions you are trying to use exist but are not supported. __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

08-31-2024, 01:22 PM	#284
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,641	There is a csv of Transactions in the histroical.database.odb file with 279,101 rows with every ID. It looks like it goes back to 1900 in prep for the 1901- period that the game can accommodate. So, you could change/find all the NYAs that Ruth has and make them PIT or something. Or delete them. I assume that's the file to mod but I'm just guessing. The Dr. Doom tool will crack the db open for modding purposes. __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

09-01-2024, 02:29 PM	#287
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 4,102	Not that big of a deal and maybe you corrected it this summer but George Sharrot (sharro001geo) real life stats for 1894 are incorrect. He was the starting pitcher 3 games that season not 2... https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...harrge01.shtml Attached Images __________________ Here I link the FGs I did but aren't included in the pack yet untill the next updates. 1871 to 1884 (500 FGs updated) 1885 to 1888 (212 FGs updated) Last edited by AESP_pres; 09-01-2024 at 02:30 PM.

09-01-2024, 05:49 PM	#289
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 4,102	I think you replied in the wrong thread... but I will reply here because that would make no sense to do it in the other one. I use real lineup even if they don't work in my simulation so it's not the problem (I think). You didn't say but do you set recalc to one season only (because it's what I use and not 3 or 5 years). You're right the only reliable line-up option is the starting pitcher (at least for the NL since it doesn't work for the American Association, the National Association, the Player League and the Union Association). I only changed what the game does if it doesn't make sense like a player playing every games when he wasn't in real life... I suspend a player when he reached the ammount of game he played in a season (TBH I only started doing this a couple of season ago) and like I said before I only put a player on a team when he played his first game in real life. PS: this is why my replay thread is on hold since I wait to reach 1901 to post again since almost everything will be as in real life. __________________ Here I link the FGs I did but aren't included in the pack yet untill the next updates. 1871 to 1884 (500 FGs updated) 1885 to 1888 (212 FGs updated)

09-02-2024, 09:56 AM	#290
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 4,102	Another small error in the 1894 real stats... Fritz Clausen started two games that year for Chicago not one as written in the game. https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...lausfr01.shtml __________________ Here I link the FGs I did but aren't included in the pack yet untill the next updates. 1871 to 1884 (500 FGs updated) 1885 to 1888 (212 FGs updated)

08-31-2024, 10:56 AM	#281
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,550	Another problem is that the transaction team ids don't always match the players and ids. For example.in 1878 the team id in the historical transaction uses In1 for Indianapolis. Fred Warner's team id for 1878 is IN3. Indianapolis's team id is IN3. The game will skip this transaction because the team ids don't match. If you change the team id for Indianapolis to IN1 before proceeding to next season then the players that have IN3 in their real life stats wiill not import to Indianapolis. So its either choose import correct players or have historical transactions work. It would really help if the game allowed players to change the historical transactions if they choose too. Say they don't want Babe Ruth traded to the Yankees. They could set all the transactions they want without having to do it manually.

08-31-2024, 11:11 AM	#282
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,550	I did find that i could proceed to the next season to get the imported players. Then i s could sim to dec 31st and change Indys abbreviation to IN1 and so the game will process the Fred Warner signing with Indy on Jan 1 1878. My only concern is that if its not a 1 year team then it might mess up the team history.

08-31-2024, 06:01 PM	#285
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,550	It would make it much easier for historical players if they just used the real team ids and abbreviations. Allowing easy access to the historical transactions would be great. I know Yankee haters would love to be able to see the Yankees make those trades with the A's in the 1950s. Or A's fans not seeing Charley Finley trading away all those A's stars in the 70s. Or maybe you want to see McGwire, Sosa and Bonds all traded to the Cubs for their whole career. Let the game import players with their real life stats but let us have the option of having them go where we would like. Automatic historical trans action or a automatic what if historical transaction.

09-01-2024, 05:25 PM	#288
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,550	Even if theres no historical lineup Anson should still be in the lineup as the LF. Why would it have a guy that started far fewer games start more than Anson? I restarted from 1876 and used fielding by season. This time Anson started the same as he did in real life but still not at LF. Instead it was at 2B. It may be the historical lineup selection option. I checked it because i want to use it for the modern era. We could estimate for the 19th century for historical lineups but i would prefer to just use starting pitchers unless more data becomes available. With far fewer teams and players in a season. It might cause more problem like the one i am having. Plus if you start sitting the best players against bad teams then those bad teams have a better chance than they should have. Or if you sit them against all good team then the team has less chance against good teams. I suppose you could take games started at a position and maybe average out his days off. You could keep the lineups pretty basic but i don't know if it would be much improvement.

09-03-2024, 10:30 AM	#294
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 4,102	Jesse Tanehill have the same error than Fritz Clausen in 1894... only one game started is his real life pitching stats (he had two in real life) but correct in the real fielding (2 games started). https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...anneje01.shtml __________________ Here I link the FGs I did but aren't included in the pack yet untill the next updates. 1871 to 1884 (500 FGs updated) 1885 to 1888 (212 FGs updated)

09-03-2024, 11:11 AM	#296
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,550	The problem with just taking transaction dates is that some players are traded the same day they played a game. Take Eddie Fusselback. He was released by St.Louis on 8/23/1882. However that was after he started a game against Pittsburgh on 8/23/1882. I think there are three ways ootp could handle cases like that. Ootp could just move the trade date to the day before or after the actual date. Depending on if he was making a start for his old team or new team. Or ootp could designate transactions involving those time of cases to be traded after completion of the day's games and before proceeding to next day. Would or does this happen when you use historical lineups?

09-03-2024, 11:53 AM	#297
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,550	1882 Baltimore's Bill Geiss is listed as released on 9/1/1882 in the historical transactions. He was the starting pitcher for Baltimore on 9/3/1882. So he could not have been released on 9/1/1882. In 1882 Jimmy Say was traded from Philadelphia to Louisville and then back to Philadelphia. The game only has him traded from Louisville to Philadelphia.

09-05-2024, 12:58 PM	#299
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 4,102	Another picher real stats error for 1894... George Nicol have a missing starting game in his pitching real stat (the fielding one is correct), he started 7 games in real life that season but his real life stats list 6 (the missing one is a game with Louisville). https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...icolge01.shtml __________________ Here I link the FGs I did but aren't included in the pack yet untill the next updates. 1871 to 1884 (500 FGs updated) 1885 to 1888 (212 FGs updated)