Version 1.6.19 Game Update Now Available (Updated from 1.6.17)

[Sebastian Palkowski]

And you can edit stuff in FHM as well (like player ratings, bio stuff, ...). Maybe it is not as complex as the one from OOTP (which grew over the years) and FM (which has many, many people working on it) but it is a beginning.

Originally Posted by julius

Sorry for the double post, but I saw the response from Smetana after posting above. You are almost entirely incorrect in this statement. I have played PC sports simulations for several decades now and I have always been able to edit their databases. It is one reason I have no interest in console games. The list of titles is too numerous but since it is also a hockey simulation I note the Wayne Gretzky hockey series which was fully editable (and had nice graphics) in the 1990s. The OOTP, and almost every baseball simulator, has an editor. Front Page Sports football had an editor 20 years ago. Football Manager 15, the biggest sports simulation series in the world, and released 3 weeks ago, has an editor (both database and in-game). In fact, apart from console games (?), I can't recall any sports simulation that I was unable to edit. Perhaps I have completely misunderstood your point.

[Anton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4

[Mordrehl]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

I don't know what an editor has to do with it. I don't believe many people will create 2014/15 updates for FM 14 just because FM 15 is released 2 1/2 month after most seasons started. They wait for FM 15, buy it and play.
.

This statement here just shows your complete lack of understanding of your target market. Most people who buy and play these kind of games are very passionate about their simulations. It's a reason that EHM is still being run today and has fans develop roster updates for it ... there's a roster update for the 2014/2015 season for EHM already. 2.5 months into the NHL season and FHM15 is nowhere in sight and FHM14 has the old rosters.

If a product fails to deliver a new version or new roster before the start of the season for the sport I like and has no easy manner for me to edit the database to match the starting rosters ... well ....

I continue to post here for the simple reason that I remain hopeful that someday FHM can be as comprehensive and functional as OOTP (as far as fantasy, historical and current/real leagues are concerned). I'll be honest though, you guys sure don't make it easy to stick around and put faith in you.

[julius]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

And you can edit stuff in FHM as well (like player ratings, bio stuff, ...). Maybe it is not as complex as the one from OOTP (which grew over the years) and FM (which has many, many people working on it) but it is a beginning.

I agree, Sebastian. I have used the editing function extensively and, apart from the glitches that have been noted in these forums, it works fine. I have mostly responded to the recent suggestion or speculation (perhaps I was mistaken) that the editing function, such as it is, would be removed or curtailed in the next version, which I think would be a mistake.

I also agreed with the decision not to circulate updated rosters (which is a different issue as you noted). Personally, I would rather see resources deployed to complete the match engine update for us to enjoy rather than squeeze more life out of the current version, which is mostly sitting unused on our hard drives I expect and won't be saved by a roster update..Hopefully we will see this new version from you shortly..

[dave1927p]

We can't forget that fm has created 15 versions. Ehm has three versions and they did not have an official editor. Limited time and resources, the devs can only do so much. I would love to see a pre game editor and dynamic editing but to me there are higher priorities for now. FOF, which has had a few versions over many years, also leaves his customers in the dark for a year without any comments.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

I'm not allowed to talk sale numbers but all late releases of OOTP had no better or worse total sales then the ones released on Opening Day. Same for iOOTP by the way (even if the audience here is different). FM just released 2 1/2 month after season start, seems not to be a problem for them.

Of course we want to release in time for Opening Day (which was early October, so 1 1/2 month ago) but different reasons did not allow it. We are not EA Sports, we don't have dozens of people work on the game, we are in fact just 2 coder and share 1 graphics person between 4 projects. We did no pre-orders, nobody paid anything so far, so there is no reason to be angry.

Again, we try to learn our lesson, no rushed releases, don't do anything at once. Keep it simple, improve on a working basis and over time the game will become better and better (much like OOTP from version 1 to 15 or FM from CM 97/98? to today). Thats how it works now and and if someone does not like it I'm really sorry but can't change it.

Originally Posted by Mordrehl

This statement here just shows your complete lack of understanding of your target market. Most people who buy and play these kind of games are very passionate about their simulations. It's a reason that EHM is still being run today and has fans develop roster updates for it ... there's a roster update for the 2014/2015 season for EHM already. 2.5 months into the NHL season and FHM15 is nowhere in sight and FHM14 has the old rosters.

If a product fails to deliver a new version or new roster before the start of the season for the sport I like and has no easy manner for me to edit the database to match the starting rosters ... well ....

I continue to post here for the simple reason that I remain hopeful that someday FHM can be as comprehensive and functional as OOTP (as far as fantasy, historical and current/real leagues are concerned). I'll be honest though, you guys sure don't make it easy to stick around and put faith in you.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Again, we try to learn our lesson, no rushed releases, don't do anything at once. Keep it simple, improve on a working basis and over time the game will become better and better (much like OOTP from version 1 to 15 or FM from CM 97/98? to today). Thats how it works now and and if someone does not like it I'm really sorry but can't change it.

100% agree with this. Much better to have an excellent game that is limited in scope than one that tries to include too much and then fails -- which is precisely what happened with the first version.

Of course I'd love to have a full editor, fully customizable fictional leagues, regularly updated rosters and a dozen other features -- but not at the expense of a rock solid core. The reality is that this is a new game and they have limited resources. Spend those resources getting the basics right and add other features in subsequent editions.

[dumbrabbit]

Originally Posted by Mordrehl

This statement here just shows your complete lack of understanding of your target market. Most people who buy and play these kind of games are very passionate about their simulations. It's a reason that EHM is still being run today and has fans develop roster updates for it ... there's a roster update for the 2014/2015 season for EHM already. 2.5 months into the NHL season and FHM15 is nowhere in sight and FHM14 has the old rosters.

If a product fails to deliver a new version or new roster before the start of the season for the sport I like and has no easy manner for me to edit the database to match the starting rosters ... well ....

I continue to post here for the simple reason that I remain hopeful that someday FHM can be as comprehensive and functional as OOTP (as far as fantasy, historical and current/real leagues are concerned). I'll be honest though, you guys sure don't make it easy to stick around and put faith in you.

I find it hilarious that a guy with 173 posts thinks he knows more about being a game developer and knows more about managing a game development business than the actual developers of FHM.


I tried FHM(hockey really isn't my thing) for a little bit It was great the demo that I played in. It has a lot of potential. Why are we even comparing FHM to OOTP?

[Jeep91]

Originally Posted by dumbrabbit

I find it hilarious that a guy with 173 posts thinks he knows more about being a game developer and knows more about managing a game development business than the actual developers of FHM.


I tried FHM(hockey really isn't my thing) for a little bit It was great the demo that I played in. It has a lot of potential. Why are we even comparing FHM to OOTP?

I find it funny that you try so hard to defend the game/developers when the guy your bashing is 100% right.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Before this get out of control again, please keep it civil! Everyone is entitled to his own opinion of the game, some like it and some not. Can we please go back talk FHM and/or hockey, I think all the database update and best release date debate is clear now.

Thanks!

[GlennN]

While an editor is important to me in a game like this (including an ability to edit injury status, I might add), I don't understand the major issues with an updated roster. I don't mean to be sarcastic - I am seriously asking - Do folks just replay the one current season over and over? I play this game (and OOTP, FOF and any other text sim) because it has a career mode and I can lose myself in my universe over many years. An updated roster is meaningless to me, since I am quickly past the current roster anyway. I thought most folks played that way in a career-type text sim, no?

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by GlennN

While an editor is important to me in a game like this (including an ability to edit injury status, I might add), I don't understand the major issues with an updated roster. I don't mean to be sarcastic - I am seriously asking - Do folks just replay the one current season over and over? I play this game (and OOTP, FOF and any other text sim) because it has a career mode and I can lose myself in my universe over many years. An updated roster is meaningless to me, since I am quickly past the current roster anyway. I thought most folks played that way in a career-type text sim, no?

Yes, that is the way most people play (at least OOTP, iOOTP and FHM, thats of course the games I have the correct numbers for. I'm pretty sure it is the same with FM). With that said, we don't want to ignore all the other modes or wishes for an editor or online leagues, we just need to decide on our priorities to use our limited resources best.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Sebmono

Football Manager. Front Office Football. Some of the Wolverine Studios games.

Also, while not pure sports management games, all the EA titles offer pre-game roster editors and the ability to share just rosters.

Although it is not out of game, the editing capabilities of OOTPB is pretty robust as well.. Players.. Teams.. Stadiums.. Uniforms.. etc

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by dumbrabbit

I Why are we even comparing FHM to OOTP?

The comparison comes from the mere association of within the company.. Same publisher and all.. Much like one would compare the development over time of Madden and the NHL games for example.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

The comparison comes from the mere association of within the company.. Same publisher and all.. Much like one would compare the development over time of Madden and the NHL games for example.

I said it about a million times: OOTP and FHM share almost no code at all! The only re-used code is the news-engine and eSellerate and even that code needed changes.

What we get from OOTP Dev is all the administration stuff, forum, web page, Steam and so on but no code and beside Daniela not even the same people work on the game. So it makes no sense to compare the games at all (not even taking into account that about 13 years of fulltime work are between the two games).

From the beginning we did not want to make a OOTP Hockey and that did not change until now. With all the problems we had with version 1 it also showed that our direction is the right one, even if some people don't like it. With the lessons we learned we will continue this road and look forward to what the future will bring the game.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

I said it about a million times: OOTP and FHM share almost no code at all! The only re-used code is the news-engine and eSellerate and even that code needed changes.

What we get from OOTP Dev is all the administration stuff, forum, web page, Steam and so on but no code and beside Daniela not even the same people work on the game. So it makes no sense to compare the games at all (not even taking into account that about 13 years of fulltime work are between the two games).

From the beginning we did not want to make a OOTP Hockey and that did not change until now. With all the problems we had with version 1 it also showed that our direction is the right one, even if some people don't like it. With the lessons we learned we will continue this road and look forward to what the future will bring the game.

Yes.. I know. He asked where the comparison comes from, so I answered his question. I did not say the code was the same nor did I say the code should be intermingled.

Code doesn't matter.. I think most have accepted that the code is not the same. The comparison comes from the reputation established by Markus and his team.

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by Sebmono

Football Manager. Front Office Football. Some of the Wolverine Studios games.

Also, while not pure sports management games, all the EA titles offer pre-game roster editors and the ability to share just rosters.

Originally Posted by julius

Sorry for the double post, but I saw the response from Smetana after posting above. You are almost entirely incorrect in this statement. I have played PC sports simulations for several decades now and I have always been able to edit their databases. It is one reason I have no interest in console games. The list of titles is too numerous but since it is also a hockey simulation I note the Wayne Gretzky hockey series which was fully editable (and had nice graphics) in the 1990s. The OOTP, and almost every baseball simulator, has an editor. Front Page Sports football had an editor 20 years ago. Football Manager 15, the biggest sports simulation series in the world, and released 3 weeks ago, has an editor (both database and in-game). In fact, apart from console games (?), I can't recall any sports simulation that I was unable to edit. Perhaps I have completely misunderstood your point.

You did, indeed. I asked for recent games that come out-of-the-box with pre-game editing capabilities. I was not referring to third-party software created by users.

Just about any small developer will say what Sebastian has said, because it is true: they have no time for creating a pre-game editor. Just like in other games, a third party usually steps up and creates this. If somebody wishes to do this for FHM, that's great! More power to them. I'd rather this dev team spend its time on wiser pursuits...

[IvanIvanovich]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

I said it about a million times: OOTP and FHM share almost no code at all! The only re-used code is the news-engine and eSellerate and even that code needed changes.

What we get from OOTP Dev is all the administration stuff, forum, web page, Steam and so on but no code and beside Daniela not even the same people work on the game. So it makes no sense to compare the games at all (not even taking into account that about 13 years of fulltime work are between the two games).

From the beginning we did not want to make a OOTP Hockey and that did not change until now. With all the problems we had with version 1 it also showed that our direction is the right one, even if some people don't like it. With the lessons we learned we will continue this road and look forward to what the future will bring the game.

So in other words you're throwing out all accumulated knowledge the other games have given you and are starting from scratch?

I would have thought it would be a better decision to build on the knowledge that previous work had garnered you...

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

Yes.. I know. He asked where the comparison comes from, so I answered his question. I did not say the code was the same nor did I say the code should be intermingled.

Code doesn't matter.. I think most have accepted that the code is not the same. The comparison comes from the reputation established by Markus and his team.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post!

About the other thing: give us 13 more years and I'm pretty sure FHM is on one level as OOTP 15 now.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by IvanIvanovich

So in other words you're throwing out all accumulated knowledge the other games have given you and are starting from scratch?

I would have thought it would be a better decision to build on the knowledge that previous work had garnered you...

Sorry, I don't want to repeat everything over and over again, I guess most people will agree that the time is better used for coding work.

But in short: we never wanted to make a OOTP Hockey and even Markus/Andreas agreed that FHM needs to go a different road then OOTP (with Europe having a very big share of sales and a totally different understanding of the genre). Of course we look what works good in OOTP and use it in FHM but we will also look at EHM, FM and our own ideas.