The NLCS: Mets vs Cardinals - Page 15

cephasjames · 10-16-2006, 12:29 PM

Okay, I'm an AL guy. I know the Mets had a great record this year, but they were in a sucky division. And I know St. Louis barely scooted into the play-offs. So, after watching both of these teams just beat up on each other, are they both that good that they pummel each other or are they both that bad? I can't really tell.

ctorg · 10-16-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Okay, I'm an AL guy. I know the Mets had a great record this year, but they were in a sucky division. And I know St. Louis barely scooted into the play-offs. So, after watching both of these teams just beat up on each other, are they both that good that they pummel each other or are they both that bad? I can't really tell.

They are both good but flawed teams. Over the course of the season, the Mets were definitely better. Which team is better now is questionable after the Mets lost two starting pitchers to injury, but I still think the Mets are a better overall team. I think the Mets really were the best team in the NL this year.

But neither team is as good as the Tigers, IMO.

darkhorse · 10-16-2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cephasjames

I know the Mets had a great record this year, but they were in a sucky league.

Glad to of assistance.

GForce · 10-16-2006, 06:42 PM

Game 5 rained out tonight. To be played tomorrow.

GH

kq76 · 10-16-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Game 5 rained out tonight. To be played tomorrow.

GH

Boooo!! I so hope the Tigers don't cool off by the time the WS starts. This sucks.

GForce · 10-16-2006, 06:50 PM

Glavine on full rest. Do the Cardinals go to Carpenter in Game 5, or still hold him off until game 6?

GH

dsvitak · 10-16-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Glavine on full rest. Do the Cardinals go to Carpenter in Game 5, or still hold him off until game 6?

GH

Carpenter, for sure...then win one of two with Weaver/Suppan.

Weaver/Suppan gave up 2 runs in about 14 innings or so.

GForce · 10-16-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Carpenter, for sure...then win one of two with Weaver/Suppan.

Weaver/Suppan gave up 2 runs in about 14 innings or so.

True, but if you're going to base Weaver/Suppan's likely performance based on what they did last time out, you need to do so with Glavine and Carpenter as well. Glavine was great, Carpenter was bad, which would send the Mets back to NY up 3-2.

Note that I think that logic is silly all the way around, but if we're going to go that route then it can't just be for the equation that works in the Cards favor.

GH

The Professor · 10-16-2006, 07:20 PM

I think you send a fully rested Weaver out for the one-up game. No matter what happens there you've got Carpenter rested and ready to save or clinch the series in Game Six and then, fingers crossed, Suppan in Game Seven if necessary.

It seems to me that is how the Cards would want to set it up. I can't see them wanting the deciding two games in the hands of Weaver and Suppan (who struggles on the road). Despite his rough outing last time, I'd think you'd throw Carp where he can do the most good. I'd hold him for Game Six because Game Five isn't going to be decisive either way.

GForce · 10-16-2006, 07:27 PM

I suppose to counter argument to that Prof is to put your best guy out there in Carpenter (who has been dynamite in St. Louis), against the Mets best in Glavine, try and top him, and then bet on Weaver/Suppan to outpitch Maine/whoever at Shea one time.

It's an interesting scenario. I think I'd go with Carpenter in 5, put your best guy out there and try to force the Mets to win both at home. If St. Louis loses game 5, they will not win both games in New York. But they can absolutely win one there, as they've shown.

GH

The Professor · 10-16-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

I suppose to counter argument to that Prof is to put your best guy out there in Carpenter (who has been dynamite in St. Louis), against the Mets best in Glavine, try and top him, and then bet on Weaver/Suppan to outpitch Maine/whoever at Shea one time.

It's an interesting scenario. I think I'd go with Carpenter in 5, put your best guy out there and try to force the Mets to win both at home. If St. Louis loses game 5, they will not win both games in New York. But they can absolutely win one there, as they've shown.

GH

Yeah, that is a good counterpoint and I didn't really think about Carp's pitching performance at Busch. Yeah, I'd buy that.

I guess my angle was that if Game Five's starter falters, you'd want your strongest two arms on the mound in New York. If you get a gem and a win from Weaver, having Carp and Suppan ready to go is pretty fair odds in your favor. If Weaver were to blow it, you've still got your best arms going in games you've got to win. Barring the assumption that the Cards cannot win two games at Shea (if they can win one, why not two more?) a part of me would rather see them take their chances in Game Five with the assumption that Games Six and Seven are the critical matchups. If Carp were to go in Game Five and somehow lose it, I don't like the team's chances with Weaver having to save the season at Shea (despite his Game One performance). I'd rather have Carp in that situation.

GForce · 10-16-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Professor

Yeah, that is a good counterpoint and I didn't really think about Carp's pitching performance at Busch. Yeah, I'd buy that.

I guess my angle was that if Game Five's starter falters, you'd want your strongest two arms on the mound in New York. If you get a gem and a win from Weaver, having Carp and Suppan ready to go is pretty fair odds in your favor. If Weaver were to blow it, you've still got your best arms going in games you've got to win. Barring the assumption that the Cards cannot win two games at Shea (if they can win one, why not two more?) a part of me would rather see them take their chances in Game Five with the assumption that Games Six and Seven are the critical matchups. If Carp were to go in Game Five and somehow lose it, I don't like the team's chances with Weaver having to save the season at Shea (despite his Game One performance). I'd rather have Carp in that situation.

I can see both sides. My point about them winning at Shea is, yes they won one, but if they lose game 5, you're basically banking your hopes that St. Louis can win 3 of 4 games in the Series at Shea. I just don't see that happening. They can, however, absolutely split, which is why I think game 5 is huge for them (and, thus, why I'd start Carpenter.)

We'll see what LaRussa does. As for NY, people are already going crazy that, basically, anybody but Trachsel should pitch Game 7. Oliver, Perez, Sid Fernandez...anybody but Trachsel.

I can't say I disagree. That wasn't a rough outing, that was a dismemberment. You don't ask him to pitch Game 7 on the heels of that.

GH

dsvitak · 10-16-2006, 10:28 PM

Weaver's ERA on the road was 3.63.

Carpenter's ERA at home was microscopic.

Save Suppan for game seven, if needed.

Works for me.

GForce · 10-16-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Weaver's ERA on the road was 3.63.

Carpenter's ERA at home was microscopic.

Save Suppan for game seven, if needed.

Works for me.

Jeff Weaver's road WHIP was 1.50

Suppan's road WHIP was 1.68

Maine's home WHIP was 1.16

Oliver Perez' home WHIP was 1.09

Darren Oliver's home WHIP was 1.07

Works for me, too.

GH

ctorg · 10-17-2006, 09:20 AM

How is Carpenter on short rest? I know some pitchers just don't do it well (see Tom Glavine).

If I were the Cardinals, I'd be inclined to put Weaver in game 5. That way you have a fully rested Carpenter for a game that, one way or another, will be a bigger game than game 5. If you use Carpenter first and he can't do short rest, you've wasted him.

phenom · 10-17-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Boooo!! I so hope the Tigers don't cool off by the time the WS starts. This sucks.

Uhh... Game One has been scheduled for Saturday no matter if the NLCS goes seven games or four.

The rainout doesn't affect that.

ctorg · 10-17-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenom

Uhh... Game One has been scheduled for Saturday no matter if the NLCS goes seven games or four.

The rainout doesn't affect that.

Yeah, this isn't OOTP.

Melo · 10-17-2006, 11:45 AM

Weaver in game 5 Vs Glavine
Carp in game 6 vs Maine
Suppan in 7 vs DarrenOliverPerez

ctorg · 10-17-2006, 04:17 PM

It would be interesting if the Mets started Darren Oliver in a potential game 7. He hasn't started a game all year. How often does that happen?

dsvitak · 10-17-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Jeff Weaver's road WHIP was 1.50

Suppan's road WHIP was 1.68

Maine's home WHIP was 1.16

Oliver Perez' home WHIP was 1.09

Darren Oliver's home WHIP was 1.07

Works for me, too.

GH

Nice points, all valid.

Having said that, I like Carpenter and Suppan, if I HAVE to win two games.

10-16-2006, 12:29 PM	#281
cephasjames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 8,736	Okay, I'm an AL guy. I know the Mets had a great record this year, but they were in a sucky division. And I know St. Louis barely scooted into the play-offs. So, after watching both of these teams just beat up on each other, are they both that good that they pummel each other or are they both that bad? I can't really tell. __________________ 5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys

10-16-2006, 07:20 PM	#289
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	I think you send a fully rested Weaver out for the one-up game. No matter what happens there you've got Carpenter rested and ready to save or clinch the series in Game Six and then, fingers crossed, Suppan in Game Seven if necessary. It seems to me that is how the Cards would want to set it up. I can't see them wanting the deciding two games in the hands of Weaver and Suppan (who struggles on the road). Despite his rough outing last time, I'd think you'd throw Carp where he can do the most good. I'd hold him for Game Six because Game Five isn't going to be decisive either way. __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

10-17-2006, 09:20 AM	#295
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	How is Carpenter on short rest? I know some pitchers just don't do it well (see Tom Glavine). If I were the Cardinals, I'd be inclined to put Weaver in game 5. That way you have a fully rested Carpenter for a game that, one way or another, will be a bigger game than game 5. If you use Carpenter first and he can't do short rest, you've wasted him. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-17-2006, 04:17 PM	#299
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	It would be interesting if the Mets started Darren Oliver in a potential game 7. He hasn't started a game all year. How often does that happen? __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-16-2006, 06:42 PM	#284
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Game 5 rained out tonight. To be played tomorrow. GH

10-16-2006, 06:50 PM	#286
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Glavine on full rest. Do the Cardinals go to Carpenter in Game 5, or still hold him off until game 6? GH

10-16-2006, 07:27 PM	#290
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	I suppose to counter argument to that Prof is to put your best guy out there in Carpenter (who has been dynamite in St. Louis), against the Mets best in Glavine, try and top him, and then bet on Weaver/Suppan to outpitch Maine/whoever at Shea one time. It's an interesting scenario. I think I'd go with Carpenter in 5, put your best guy out there and try to force the Mets to win both at home. If St. Louis loses game 5, they will not win both games in New York. But they can absolutely win one there, as they've shown. GH

10-16-2006, 10:28 PM	#293
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,345	Weaver's ERA on the road was 3.63. Carpenter's ERA at home was microscopic. Save Suppan for game seven, if needed. Works for me.

10-17-2006, 11:45 AM	#298
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	Weaver in game 5 Vs Glavine Carp in game 6 vs Maine Suppan in 7 vs DarrenOliverPerez