White Sox/Angels ALCS Thread - Page 15

JDOldSchool · 10-12-2005, 11:29 PM

Apparently the umpire didn't call AJ out. He didn't, according to Pierzynski, say anything. From my experience, an umpire will either say "strike 3" or won't say anything if he believes the ball was not caught clean.

If this is the case, Paul should've tagged AJ whether he felt he caught the ball or not. The umpire was still wrong in thinking the ball hit the ground, but if he didn't call him out then he didn't do anything misleading.

mrskippy · 10-12-2005, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sublimity

And Paul has to feel the same way, just give him a quick tag.

Which is another crucial rule. I was taught to always, always, always tag the guy in situations like that. Actually, the catchers on my teams were always told to make the tag on third strike, just to put the theory into practice, but to especially do it in situations like this.

Baseball 101

If you're the batter, run to first.
If you're the catcher, make the tag.

Erik W. · 10-12-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Apparently the umpire didn't call AJ out. He didn't, according to Pierzynski, say anything. From my experience, an umpire will either say "strike 3" or won't say anything if he believes the ball was not caught clean.

If this is the case, Paul should've tagged AJ whether he felt he caught the ball or not. The umpire was still wrong in thinking the ball hit the ground, but if he didn't call him out then he didn't do anything misleading.

Then he isn't a total ****tard. He's an indecisive idiot. He CLEARLY gave the out sign. If he gave the out sign and didn't give the verbal indicator, then he just didn't know what to call, and let the runner make the decision for him.

That's bull****.

mrskippy · 10-12-2005, 11:34 PM

OK, but what is the rule when:

You have strike three, but the ball hits the ground, and the runner reaches base.

Per rule, IIRC, it's still ruled a strikeout (which is why you can technically have four outs in an inning and more than 27 Ks in a game). But, how do you signal this?

Obviously, he swung strike three, but if the ball hits the ground, the batter can take first base (if he reaches before being tagged or forced out at first).

Erik W. · 10-12-2005, 11:36 PM

I've seen it called two ways: No signal, or just a strike signal. Usually the former. The ump tonight gave both the strike signal and the out signal.

JDOldSchool · 10-12-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien

Then he isn't a total ****tard. He's an indecisive idiot. He CLEARLY gave the out sign. If he gave the out sign and didn't give the verbal indicator, then he just didn't know what to call, and let the runner make the decision for him.

That's bull****.

But Josh Paul wouldn't have seen ANY signal. The umpire could've pulled his pants down and jiggled his junk and Paul wouldn't have known. The catcher has to go on what the umpire says there, and if the umpire didn't say anything his hand motion didn't matter much.

I think the guy made a mistake, maybe two mistakes, but it wasn't a mistake that wasn't impossible to overcome. In fact, if Paul had just done what he was supposed to do it would've been going to extra innings.

Jonzard · 10-12-2005, 11:39 PM

Have to say, they gave it to the White Sox.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 10-12-2005, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien

The ump tonight gave both the strike signal and the out signal.

Exactly.

Watch what he does. He gives the strike three sign at first, and then a second later does the raised fist for the third out. Put it this way: if I was Josh Paul standing staring at the motion he made, I'd have tossed the ball to the mound. This is entirely beside the fact that the original call was 100% wrong, as the replay shows.

sebastian0622 · 10-12-2005, 11:45 PM

That was pretty crappy...in case I didn't hate Doug Eddings enough already. Why does this guy still have a job? Why is he in the PLAYOFFS!

That being said, an ump generally points at the batter (or the catcher, I guess I can't tell) if he wants to signal that the ball was caught on a close one like that. If he signals a strikeout, but doesn't point, that is a pretty big flag to the catcher to tag the guy. If it's close, tag the guy. If it's a crucial out and the ball is anywhere within 6 inches of the ground, tag the guy. The umpire made a mistake, but the catcher made a bigger one. This wasn't the case of an umpire "giving" it away.

JDOldSchool · 10-12-2005, 11:46 PM

Crawford and Eddings (sp?) are talking to the media now. They're standing by their call, basically. Eddings says he never said a word to Paul, which means Paul was just assuming it was an out. I don't see how anybody can blame his arm movements when Paul couldn't see that anyway.

Jonzard · 10-12-2005, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

he umpire made a mistake, but the catcher made a bigger one. This wasn't the case of an umpire "giving" it away.

The umpire made the initial mistake... err mistakes. That matters.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 10-12-2005, 11:48 PM

You know, I could probably actually forgive this if he would've just admitted the mistake. But this is just un****ingbelievable.

Jonzard · 10-12-2005, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Crawford and Eddings (sp?) are talking to the media now. They're standing by their call, basically. Eddings says he never said a word to Paul, which means Paul was just assuming it was an out. I don't see how anybody can blame his arm movements when Paul couldn't see that anyway.

They also say they saw the replay (blown up and zoomed) and still say that the ball hit the ground before he caught it. Therefore, they lose their credibility with me.

keenejee · 10-12-2005, 11:49 PM

This post has been deleted because it did not follow the forum rules.

andymac · 10-12-2005, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keenejee

Edited by Admin.

Damn...I was hoping you had vanished into thin air or something.

Eric · 10-12-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

You know, I could probably actually forgive this if he would've just admitted the mistake. But this is just un****ingbelievable.

Have there ever been an occasion where baseball umpires admitted that they are wrong?

andymac · 10-12-2005, 11:53 PM

We may have just seen the play that gets the ball rolling on instant replay in MLB.

UngratefulDead · 10-12-2005, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keenejee

Edited by Admin.

Kenny! Long time no see! So, how about that Derek Lowe, eh?

keenejee · 10-12-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UngratefulDead

Kenny! Long time no see! So, how about that Derek Lowe, eh?

I'm a man of my word...although I don't even remember the specifics of the bet except the reward, so that'll happen. Enlighten me on what I agreed upon with the specifics?

Erik W. · 10-12-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

We may have just seen the play that gets the ball rolling on instant replay in MLB.

I'm all for it if it's used in cases like this, because there's no judgement call involved at all here. It either hits the dirt, or it doesn't. It didn't.

10-12-2005, 11:39 PM	#287
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	Have to say, they gave it to the White Sox. __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

10-12-2005, 11:48 PM	#292
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	You know, I could probably actually forgive this if he would've just admitted the mistake. But this is just un****ingbelievable. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

10-12-2005, 11:49 PM	#294
keenejee Major Leagues Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 460	DELETED BY ADMIN! This post has been deleted because it did not follow the forum rules.

10-12-2005, 11:53 PM	#297
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	We may have just seen the play that gets the ball rolling on instant replay in MLB. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

10-12-2005, 11:29 PM	#281
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	Apparently the umpire didn't call AJ out. He didn't, according to Pierzynski, say anything. From my experience, an umpire will either say "strike 3" or won't say anything if he believes the ball was not caught clean. If this is the case, Paul should've tagged AJ whether he felt he caught the ball or not. The umpire was still wrong in thinking the ball hit the ground, but if he didn't call him out then he didn't do anything misleading.

10-12-2005, 11:34 PM	#284
mrskippy All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,011	OK, but what is the rule when: You have strike three, but the ball hits the ground, and the runner reaches base. Per rule, IIRC, it's still ruled a strikeout (which is why you can technically have four outs in an inning and more than 27 Ks in a game). But, how do you signal this? Obviously, he swung strike three, but if the ball hits the ground, the batter can take first base (if he reaches before being tagged or forced out at first).

10-12-2005, 11:36 PM	#285
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	I've seen it called two ways: No signal, or just a strike signal. Usually the former. The ump tonight gave both the strike signal and the out signal.

10-12-2005, 11:45 PM	#289
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	That was pretty crappy...in case I didn't hate Doug Eddings enough already. Why does this guy still have a job? Why is he in the PLAYOFFS! That being said, an ump generally points at the batter (or the catcher, I guess I can't tell) if he wants to signal that the ball was caught on a close one like that. If he signals a strikeout, but doesn't point, that is a pretty big flag to the catcher to tag the guy. If it's close, tag the guy. If it's a crucial out and the ball is anywhere within 6 inches of the ground, tag the guy. The umpire made a mistake, but the catcher made a bigger one. This wasn't the case of an umpire "giving" it away.

10-12-2005, 11:46 PM	#290
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	Crawford and Eddings (sp?) are talking to the media now. They're standing by their call, basically. Eddings says he never said a word to Paul, which means Paul was just assuming it was an out. I don't see how anybody can blame his arm movements when Paul couldn't see that anyway.