Time Warp Baseball

[jdw]

More Woody notes.

He was plonked a staggering 250 times. In MLB history, only four players have been plonked more:

287 - Hughie Jennings
272 - Tommy Tucker
267 - Don Baylor
256 - Craig Biggio

Woody was plonked early and often. He got hit a career high 21 times that rookie year in 1904, and would get hit in the double digits every full season for his career.

He got hit more times than he *struck out* in 1912, 1915, and 1917-1919. Even in his last season as a player in 1921, he got plonked twice an struck out once. For his career, he struck out 415 times to those 250 plonkings.


John

[jdw]

One more add to Woody Notes before I get to bed.

All long time readers of TWB know that after Woody won his 5th BOY award in 1914, and third straight, that the voters just decided not to give it to him anymore. I don't think newer readers of the Big Thread might realize just how hosed Woody was in 1915 and 1916. Here's a refresher...

In 1915, Edward Brantsag of the Pirates won the award. Here's what the two did:

103-51 Cards 1st (second straight title)
69-85 Pirates 7th (51.0 games behind)

BA
1 - .391 - Woodson
2 - .370 - Brantsag

OBP
1 - .490 - Woodson
3 - .420 - Brantsag

SLG
1 - .571 - Woodson
2 - .507 - Brantsag

OPS
1 - 1.061 - Woodson
2 - .927 - Brantsag

RC
1 - 141.2 - Woodson
2 - 119.3 - Brantsag

RC/27
1 - 12.22 - Woodson
2 - 8.41 - Brantsag

H
1 - 207 - Brantsag
4 - 185 - Woodson

2B
6 - 31 - Woodson
x - 18 - Brantsag

3B
2 - 24 - Woodson
x - 16 - Brantsag

HR
1 - 9 - Brantsag
x - 2 - Woodson

RBI
5 - 83 - Brantsag
x - 66 - Woodson

R
2 - 91 - Woodson
3 - 90 - Brantsag

BB
1 - 80 - Woodson
x - 47 - Brantsag

EBH
2 - 57 - Brantsag
x - 43 - Woodson

TB
1 - 284 - Brantsag
2 - 270 - Woodson

Gold Glove 2B:
Woodson over all NL 2B for the 7th straight year.

Gold Glove 1B:
Sam Gardner over Brantsag.


In 1916, Campbell Ditty of the Pirates won the award. Here's what the two did:

89-65 Cards 1st (third straight title)
78-76 Giants 3rd (11.0 games behind)

BA
1 - .386 - Woodson
3 - .347 - Ditty

OBP
1 - .487 - Woodson
9 - .393 - Ditty

SLG
1 - .557 - Woodson
2 - .521 - Ditty

OPS
1 - 1.044 - Woodson
2 - .914 - Ditty

RC
1 - 152.2 - Woodson
4 - 109.6 - Ditty

RC/27
1 - 11.71 - Woodson
6 - 7.49 - Ditty

H
1 - 204 - Woodson
2 - 192 - Ditty

2B
1 - 46 - Ditty
2 - 40 - Woodson

3B
x - 16 - Woodson
x - 4 - Ditty

HR
1 - 14 - Ditty
5 - 6 - Woodson

RBI
3 - 91 - Ditty
10 - 72 - Woodson

R
1 - 109 - Woodson
6 - 85 - Ditty

BB
1 - 95 - Woodson
x - 43 - Ditty

EBH
2 - 64 - Ditty
3 - 62 - Woodson

TB
1 - 294 - Woodson
2 - 288 - Ditty

Gold Glove 2B:
Woodson over all NL 2B for the 8th straight year.

Gold Glove CF:
Ray Brown over Ditty for the seventh straight year.

The voters by 1915 felt that five BOY Awards were enough for Woody and went in another direction. Unlike 1911 with Ray Brown was a very worthy winner of the BOY, in 1915 and 1916, Woody clearly was still the best player in the NL. Brantsag was the second best hitter in 1915, but there was a sizeable gap _and_ Woody's team put on one of the greatest regular season performances of all-time while Brantsag's Pirates were 51 games in their dust. In 1916, one has a tough time arguing that Ditty was the best player on his own team instead of Kohse. The best player in the league yet again, playing for the best team in the league yet again, was Woody Woodson.


John

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by jdw

In 1916, one has a tough time arguing that Ditty was the best player on his own team instead of Kohse. The best player in the league yet again, playing for the best team in the league yet again, was Woody Woodson.

Still trying to get my goat about Campbell Ditty, John?

You'll be surprised to hear that I agree that Woody was hosed both years. In my opinion, the loss to Brantsag was even more shocking.

Debates like this are what makes OOTP and TWB great. Who knows what intangibles go into the BOTY voting? Perhaps it takes into account Market Size and Fan Interest. Or perhaps it tallies up GWRBI and POTG. We just don't know.

In the real world, many great players are overlooked because of small markets, or even personality conflicts. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd want the top statistical player to ALWAYS win the award....most of the time, yes, but the hint of uncertainty is what makes baseball the undisputed best sport in the world.

[jdw]

metsgeek wrote:

> Still trying to get my goat about Campbell
> Ditty, John?

It wouldn't be TWB if I wasn't knocking Campbell... or sobbing about Jimmy's HOF career getting hosed by WWII.


> You'll be surprised to hear that I
> agree that Woody was hosed both
> years. In my opinion, the loss to
> Brantsag was even more shocking.

Yeah, that one would almost certainly *not* have happened in RL with the Cards having such a monster year.


> Who knows what intangibles go into
> the BOTY voting? Perhaps it takes
> into account Market Size and Fan
> Interest.

Not likely.

HR and RBI, as we've discussed a bunch, are high on the list of things considered. And it tends to screw things up in the Deadball era from time to time when not many HR are hit.

Brantsag and Ditty had more HR and RBI than Woody while being one of the top hitters in the NL. Brantsag appears to have been the #2 hitter in the league. Combine that with the HR and RBI lead... *bingo*.


> In the real world, many great players
> are overlooked because of small
> markets, or even personality conflicts.

That doesn't seem to be the case with Woody since he won 5 by that point, an all-time TWB record at the time. He also was the first player to win three straight. The "voter code" didn't have a problem picking because he played in STL.

Market size seems to have no impact in the code. Team success also doesn't seem to have a great impact code. How can I say this?

1903 AL BOY: Austen Daschke (NYA)
1935 AL BOY: Ervin Skjerly (NYA)
1938 AL BOY: Jimmy Ditty (NYA)
1942 AL BOY: Ping Hung (NYA)

The Yanks are by far the most successful team in TWB AL history, and rank with the Phils as the most successful team overall. They play in the biggest market.

Yet they've won just *4* BOY awards.

The Giants have won 5.

The Dodgers have won 13, but that's an aberation due to one Oscar Vancini winning 8 of them. And Oscar lead the NL in HR in 7 of those seasons and in RBI 6 of those seasons (and was runner up a seventh).

Of the five non-Oscar BOY for the Dodgers, Charlie Matthews (1919), Jesse Passwater (1924) and Jeff Bundy (1940) also led the league in RBI in years they won. Jonathan Wright (1935) led the league in BA and was second in RBI.

Looking at the traditional Triple Crown categories(BA/HR/RBI) and the percentage Grand Slam categories (BA/OBP/SLG/OPS), you'll find this among the winners (missing the last two won by Holt who doesn't have a profile):

1st/2nd - Stat
-----------------
55/19 - SLG
49/20 - OPS
35/10 - RBI
30/07 - HR
26/09 - OBP
25/12 - BA

SLG and OPS dominate. RBI among the traditional stats comes in #1, followed by HR a bit over BA. OBP brings up the rear.

Brantsag was #2 in BA, SLG and OPS to Woody. He was #1 in HR with Woody down the list, and high on the RBI list would Woody off.

Ditty was #2 in SLG and OPS to Woody, with a high BA, #1 in HR, smacked Woody in RBI.


> To be honest, I'm not sure I'd
> want the top statistical player
> to ALWAYS win the award....
> most of the time, yes, but
> the hint of uncertainty is
>what makes baseball the
> undisputed best sport in
> the world.

Just going by OPS (which I wouldn't, but it's the easiest Q&D we have from the profiles), the Best OPS player wins almost exactly half the time. About 72% of the times, either the #1 or #2 OPS man wins. Ormiston and Dunkel were #2 in their leagues this past year, for example.

One last add. Here are how the BOY do as far as Pennants and 2nd Place finishes:

32 - Pennant
24 - 2nd Place

BOY's tend to play on a champ about a third of the time, and on a 1st or 2nd place team a little over half the time. Less than SLG and OPS.

That's one place where I wouldn't mind seeing the Code taking more of a factor in. That gets it closer to Real Life.


John

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by jdw

One more add to Woody Notes before I get to bed.

All long time readers of TWB know that after Woody won his 5th BOY award in 1914, and third straight, that the voters just decided not to give it to him anymore. I don't think newer readers of the Big Thread might realize just how hosed Woody was in 1915 and 1916. Here's a refresher...


John

That was a terrible algothorim (sp?) for the MVP in OOTP5, in which I was an adamant supporter of diluting the HR/RBI boost players got.

As you can see Woody lost both BOY based on losing just two categories to the eventual winners...HR/RBI

This has been fixed slighty in version 6...of which I was quite glad...and now you see a player with high OPS etc. win MVP instead of HR/RBI being the main criteria.

HR/RBI guys still win close races as you can see from Dunkel's win this year over Wing and Howard.

I do wish that steal success, fielding and bb/k ratio got a small irkling of recognition

In my latest replay...which will probably crash as always in 1930...Ty Cobb has won 11 of 13 BOY awards, some of which I think Tris Speaker should have won 2...and Joe Jackson another, due to their fielding, steal success and Speaker is/was a much better bb/k guy than Cobb

[Vris]

Wouldn't have thought that this would almost fall off the front.

Just impatient for '49. Don't mind this bump.

[Matt from TN]

If I weren't out of town for a few days on business after just spending a week on vacation, it wouldn't have. Now that the ammy, HOF and managers are done, I'll get some offseason updates done soon, but likely not until Thurs. We'll see.

[canadiancreed]

ya same here, kinda disturbing what a week off can do

On to 1949

[Vris]

It was nothing against you Matt, I just can't stand looking at the Dynasty Forums and Time Warp isn't around. Makes me feel all dirty inside.

[jdw]

Vris wrote:

> Wouldn't have thought that this would almost fall off the front.

I did my share to keep up the "Off Season Posting" with all those Woody posts. Very few cared to join in. :P


John

[canadiancreed]

myself I didnt even have any idea who you were talking about......*cues JT to kick my uninformed ass*

not if it was 1940's on, then I can help

speaking of which 1949 shoudl be very intresting, I cant wait to see how things are going to work out

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by Vris

It was nothing against you Matt, I just can't stand looking at the Dynasty Forums and Time Warp isn't around. Makes me feel all dirty inside.

My only solace was the fact that the TWB HOF thread was there. That was enough for me under the circumstances.

[jdw]

And I'm STILL getting NO LUV from Matt over all my Super Cool~! Woody posts despite a certain Beloved Commissioner having this picture as their Avatar:



It's enough to drive a StatBoy nuts!!!




John

[Vris]

Well if it's good enough for the Commish, then it should be good enough for the rest of us!

creed, go back and read this whole damn thread please. You don't know who Woody Woodson is? Possibly the greatest player in Time Warp history? How did he get in on this?!!?!?

And sorry John. I would've got involved, but you start pulling all those stats out and I just get to reading them and....well, it's just so damn interesting I don't even know what to say. You're a very persuasive statistician, John. Someday, I hope to be that good.

[Matt from TN]

Key Retirees:


Leonard "Sonny" Davie, C/1B Ancestor
Chicago White Sox 1927-48



Davie was the top AL catcher for a generation. He made it to 13 all-star games, including 10 in a row from 1935-44. He was also the first slugging catcher in the AL. The only catchers with more homeruns are both National Leaguers - Willard Schwarz and Davie's contemporary Lloyd Johnson. Over a 22-year career, Davie made it to the World Series just once, but the White Sox lost that 1938 series to the Cubs. Davie retired with a .285 average, 2639 hits, 533 doubles (16th All-Time), 254 homeruns (17th All-Time), 1368 RBI, 1592 runs scored (19th All-Time), 1534 walks (7th All-Time), 285 steals and a .832 OPS.


"Swervin' Ervin" Skjerly, 2B/CF Ancestor
New York Yankees 1927-43, 1948
Philadelphia Phillies 1943-48



Ervin is the winningest player in baseball history. He was part of 8 AL pennant-winning Yankees teams and 2 NL pennant-winning Phillies teams. Between them, he won 6 World Series. His stats don't jump out at you, but he was certainly a catalyst for many great teams. He was the 1935 AL BOTY, and he retired with a .308 average, 2819 hits, 388 doubles, 1199 RBI, 1402 runs, 1203 walks, 284 steals and a .795 OPS.


Carl "Dutch" Kahle, 3B/C Ancestor
Washington Senators 1926-48



With both his brothers, Gus and Otto, being elected to the HOF together this winter, Carl joined them by retiring as a player. Unlike either of them however, Carl has decided to stay on as manager of his beloved Senators. He was part of the franchise's best period, winning 3 pennants and two World Series. He won 3 BOY's in a four year period from 1936-39. He retired with a .301 average, 3169 hits (13th All-Time), 591 doubles (8th All-Time), 322 homeruns (7th All-Time), 1847 RBI (2nd All-Time), 1724 runs (5th All-Time), 1506 walks (9th All-Time) and a .854 OPS.



Honorable Mentions:

Ray Dimeo, 2B
Tigers 1931-47
Yankees 1947-48

.300, 2218 Hits, 285 DBL, 114 TPL, 822 RBI, 1145 R, 940 BB, 302 SB, .785 OPS


Gordon Meadows, C
Tigers 1933-41
A's 1941-47
Yankees 1948

.272, 1678 H, 232 DBL, 748 RBI, 790 R, 458 BB, 110 SB, .687 OPS


Zolly Schoeter, SP
Cardinals 1933-34
Indians 1934-46
Senators 1946-48

167-173, 4.04 ERA, 955 BB, 1253 K, 220 CG, 15 SHO, 1.36 WHIP


Ted Stuart, SS
Cubs 1933-37
Browns 1937-41
A's 1941-44
Phillies 1944-48

.296, 1800 H, 258 DBL, 104 TPL, 757 RBI, 797 R, 547 BB, .749 OPS

One of the finest fielders ever with 9 GG's. Also played in 4 WS, winning 2.


Reggie Woodson, C
Giants 1933-37
Pirates 1937-47

.302, 1354 H, 230 DBL, 576 RBI, 692 R, 511 BB, .781 OPS

Won 1942 NL Batting Title

[canadiancreed]

wow staurt really got around. quite a field retiring this year

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by jdw

And I'm STILL getting NO LUV from Matt over all my Super Cool~! Woody posts despite a certain Beloved Commissioner having this picture as their Avatar:



It's enough to drive a StatBoy nuts!!!




John

LOL nice. Should get one of those done up for mine......whenever I find a fav player

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by jdw

And I'm STILL getting NO LUV from Matt over all my Super Cool~! Woody posts despite a certain Beloved Commissioner having this picture as their Avatar:



It's enough to drive a StatBoy nuts!!!

Sorry John... LOVE, LOVE, LOVE... and more LOVE

If I hadn't been away so much I would've commented then.

I always figured Murphy was your favorite TWB player from the 10's-20's era. Was Woody your favorite from the early years then? I was also shocked to see no one voted for Murphy as their all-time favorite in TWB. I expected you to.

Originally Posted by jdw

He got hit more times than he *struck out* in 1912, 1915, and 1917-1919.

That really is staggering.

Unfortunately, I can't edit his html report to insert those leaderboards. Something fishy must've been going on at that time. Wasn't that when the GG's went missing too? Anyway, I need to get around to adding in those GG's.

[Matt from TN]

Ancestors Added in 1949:

Arnie Stewart, 1B, Yankees



Arnie is a great all-around hitter. He hts for average and power, and he has a great eye for the strikezone. He fills a big need for the Yankees at 1B, but if one of the team's other 1B's pans out, he could even move into the outfield. He should begin the season at AA Binghamton, but he could move up quickly.


Bryce Ostrander, SP, Giants



The Giants believe Ostrander could be the finest young pitcher in their farm system in a very long time. He has fantastic stuff, and he could be in the majors soon. He begins this season at AA Jacksonville.


Charlton "Pap" Brown, 1B, A's



Scouts have marvelled at this kid's power potential. He sometimes struggles to hit for average, but the A's believe he could develop into a consistent .275 hitter. That would be more than enough if he fulfills their belief that he could be a 40-50 homerun hitter. He should begin the season at AA Savannah.


Roger Joyce, SS, Cardinals



Joyce was signed by the Dodgers then quickly shipped to the Cardinals in a deal for young pitcher Matt Keyes Jr. Joyce is a solid fielder, and he has good plate discipline, but his main strength is mking contact. The Cards think he could develop into a potential batting champ someday. This season, he is expected to start at Single-A Fresno. If he matures quickly, he could find himself in St. Louis in a few seasons with their aging shortstops.


Scotch Allen, CF, Pirates



Yet another Allen joins the fray as a professional ballplayer. However, he could be the best hitting talent since grandaddy Whiskey played. He is no Whiskey Allen, but he could be a .300 hitter. Unlike his granpa, Scotch has a lot of homerun power. That's one of the reasons Pittsburgh wanted him. He begins the season at Single-A Stockton, but with an aging outfield, the Pirates hope to groom Scotch quickly.


Jimmy Swofford, C, White Sox



Swofford makes a lot of contact and should develop into a fine major league hitter. he has a decent eye and average arm, but his defense is sometimes suspect. He needs a lot of work to make it to the majors, but he turns 18 in a few weeks, so he has time. The Sox are in no hurry with Cecil Marziani manning the plate in Chicago, so Jimmy will start out at Single-A Denver.


Alan Liao, Jr, 2B, Cubs



Like his dad, a potential HOF'er who played for the Reds, Liao is an infielder with a good batting stroke. He should hit over .300 as a big leaguer, and he has great patience at the plate. He also has displayed good power to the gaps. He is a capable fielder, and there is really no one blocking him in the big leagues. However, he is unpolished, and the team wants him to start out at Single-A Visalia.


Pete "Pretty Boy" Pugliese, CF, Senators



Pugliese is a solid hitter. He hits for good enough average and does not strike out too often, but scouts do not like how infrequently he walks. He is a powerful hitter though, who could develop into a 30-HR guy. He is a solid defender, and the team hopes he can one day team up with Chris Anderson and young Delmar Yordy in the outfield. Pete has a ways to go though, and he begins his career at Single-A Burlington.


Reggie "Shorty" Xavier, SP, Red Sox



Shorty is a quality pitcher who has good control and has displayed sharp movement on his pitches. Scouts are concerned however with his propensity for allowing fly balls. That could get him in trouble at Fenway. That's still a ways off though, as he starts his career at Single-A San Jose.


William "Long Arms" Swofford, SP, Cardinals



Swofford is a hard-throwing lefty who the Cards hope to groom for the back end of their rotation. He allows a few too many homeruns for their tastes, but he could become a solid player if he gets that under control. He begins his career at Single-A Fresno.


Donald "Chicken" Sinton, RP, Yankees



Sinton is an exciting reliever for New York. They could use some help in their bullpen, and despite not turning 18 until June 1st, Sinton could be on the fast track to the majors. The team has not yet decided if he should start his career at Single-A or Double-A, but he keeps the ball on the ground and has displayed the kind of stuff that could get him noticed soon.


Henri "Chancellor" Gallais, 3B, A's



Gallais has a great eye for the strikezone, but he often struggles to make contact. He still puts up a good OBP however by drawing a lot of walks. He also has decent power, both for homeruns and doubles. He has better-than-average speed, and he could be a major leaguer someday. However, the A's have young Bud Ayers manning the hot corner, but he could potentially move to 1B or RF if necessary.

[scprideandms]

lets hope Scotch is better than Tequila