Pete Rose sycophants

[Orcin]

I have no problem with Pete Rose being permanently banned from participating in the business of baseball as a player, manager, coach, owner, bat boy, clubhouse guy, trainer, or whatever other position you might imagine.

My point is that he should be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. It could be done.

[Orcin]

Let him in!

[Jason Moyer]

I still don't see how you can give someone baseball's highest honor while simultaneously saying they're not allowed to be associated with baseball in any way*.

*which is a joke, because obviously they don't follow the ban when it suits their marketing plans

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I still don't see how you can give someone baseball's highest honor while simultaneously saying they're not allowed to be associated with baseball in any way*.

*which is a joke, because obviously they don't follow the ban when it suits their marketing plans

Because it is two different entities. The Hall of Fame is not run by MLB.

[canadiancreed]

But as stated before, they won't elect anyone banned by MLB. It's been that way for a while now...

Board Says Rose Is Ineligible for Hall of Fame - NYTimes.com

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

But as stated before, they won't elect anyone banned by MLB. It's been that way for a while now...

Board Says Rose Is Ineligible for Hall of Fame - NYTimes.com

And it can be changed today by the same people that changed it before... the MLB ban does not have to be lifted.

[Jason Moyer]

"The directors felt that it would be incongruous to have a person who has been declared ineligible by baseball to be eligible for baseball's highest honor," Stack read from a statement after the meeting.

It's good that the HoF board has displayed common sense on occasion.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I have no problem with Pete Rose being permanently banned from participating in the business of baseball as a player, manager, coach, owner, bat boy, clubhouse guy, trainer, or whatever other position you might imagine.

My point is that he should be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. It could be done.

My view is basically the mirror image of this. I don't mind Rose being in the Hall of Fame - it's a museum that teaches us about baseball and baseball history. Rose is an important part of that.

But no way, no how do I want him back in the business of baseball. It's offensive to me that they let him on a baseball field - as far as I'm concerned, he shouldn't be allowed on a major league field, a minor league field or a Little League field.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

It's good that the HoF board has displayed common sense on occasion.

Common sense? NO sense is more like it.

[chucksabr]

The Hall of Fame will never extend the middle finger to MLB and enshrine Pete Rose against Baseball's wishes. If they did that, it would start a war between MLB and the Hall of Fame which would essentially put the Hall of Fame out of business, since they rely on their relationship with MLB to maintain their ongoing concern.

There is nothing in it for the Hall of Fame to flip off MLB in such a way. The ghost is gone.

[Cobra Mgr]

I'm sure these points have been made already in this tread. But seeing as I'm too lazy to read 15 pages.........

People don't understand just how serious Pete Rose's gambling is. Baseball, football, hockey, tennis, sumo wrestling, whatever are all selling the same biz: Fair competition at its highest level. They are selling the public that everyone involved in the game is trying their hardest to end up the winner and care is being taken to make sure everyone follows the rules equally & fairly. Once a breach happens in that regard, there is no business. As it is, their is a significant portion of the fan base (myself included) who already believes that not everything is on the up & up in major team sports. Now imagine if it is proven without a doubt that multiple players were not trying to win? In order to make some extra change on a side bet? What would happen to that sport? Once fans doubt that the participants are giving their all love of the sports will diminish, Congress will get involved, the tax breaks & antitrust injunctions they enjoy now will disappear. The major leagues cannot allow even a momentary spark in that regard to catch fire.

Imagine if the Mitchell report wasn't on steroids, but on gambling. Think of it. Hundreds of players on every team except the BoSox (I still lol at that) has players on it betting on the outcome of the game. What kind of scandal do you think would erupt? For a commissioner, to compare betting to PED's, even murder, is like saying the local general store is comparable to Wal-Mart. It is something you just can't tolerate. W/PED's you at least know the player is trying to put his best out their on the field. In some cases, just trying to get onto the field. W/betting you will always question every decision made. "Did he miss that payoff pitch low on purpose? Did the catcher call for that pitch knowing that was the hitter's favorite to swing at? Did the batter really get confused on that hit & run signal?"

There is a reason why PED's, domestic violence, marijuana etc continues to invade sport's locker rooms. Cause getting in trouble for those things isn't necessarily a death sentence for their career. Gambling? Comparably, hardly a peep is heard about it in the major leagues. That's because once caught, players, coaches, mgrs. execs etc know that that's the end. Death sentence. There is no coming back. That's how seriously the majors view it & have to view it.

And that's why MLB & the HOF can't adjust their position just to let Pete in. You can't give out any hope that you can bet on the sport you play and be forgiven. For sports, it is truly an unforgivable sin.

And please don't excuse Pete Rose's betting by saying he only bet on his team to win. Did he bet on them everyday? What was he telling the mob when he didn't bet on the Reds that night? Was that a way for him to get some of his bets forgiven? And what about his former teammates who have gone to bat for him? The ones who wanted him forgiven cause he had fully admitted to what he did? The ones who thought he should be in the HOF cause he didn't gamble as a player? The ones who despite Rose's constant lies & deceptions still believed in him?

Rose is a low life scum concerned with only one thing: Pete Rose. Pete Rose would never step up to the plate for anybody. But he has fans, teammates, and media defending him & acting as his advocates. Save it for the souls who actually deserve someone in their corner but have nobody. Not a lying, narcissistic, self-promoting, snake of a man addicted to attention but allergic to responsibility & culpability.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I'm sure these points have been made already in this tread. But seeing as I'm too lazy to read 15 pages.........

People don't understand just how serious Pete Rose's gambling is. Baseball, football, hockey, tennis, sumo wrestling, whatever are all selling the same biz: Fair competition at its highest level. They are selling the public that everyone involved in the game is trying their hardest to end up the winner and care is being taken to make sure everyone follows the rules equally & fairly. Once a breach happens in that regard, there is no business. As it is, their is a significant portion of the fan base (myself included) who already believes that not everything is on the up & up in major team sports. Now imagine if it is proven without a doubt that multiple players were not trying to win? In order to make some extra change on a side bet? What would happen to that sport? Once fans doubt that the participants are giving their all love of the sports will diminish, Congress will get involved, the tax breaks & antitrust injunctions they enjoy now will disappear. The major leagues cannot allow even a momentary spark in that regard to catch fire.

Imagine if the Mitchell report wasn't on steroids, but on gambling. Think of it. Hundreds of players on every team except the BoSox (I still lol at that) has players on it betting on the outcome of the game. What kind of scandal do you think would erupt? For a commissioner, to compare betting to PED's, even murder, is like saying the local general store is comparable to Wal-Mart. It is something you just can't tolerate. W/PED's you at least know the player is trying to put his best out their on the field. In some cases, just trying to get onto the field. W/betting you will always question every decision made. "Did he miss that payoff pitch low on purpose? Did the catcher call for that pitch knowing that was the hitter's favorite to swing at? Did the batter really get confused on that hit & run signal?"

There is a reason why PED's, domestic violence, marijuana etc continues to invade sport's locker rooms. Cause getting in trouble for those things isn't necessarily a death sentence for their career. Gambling? Comparably, hardly a peep is heard about it in the major leagues. That's because once caught, players, coaches, mgrs. execs etc know that that's the end. Death sentence. There is no coming back. That's how seriously the majors view it & have to view it.

And that's why MLB & the HOF can't adjust their position just to let Pete in. You can't give out any hope that you can bet on the sport you play and be forgiven. For sports, it is truly an unforgivable sin.

And please don't excuse Pete Rose's betting by saying he only bet on his team to win. Did he bet on them everyday? What was he telling the mob when he didn't bet on the Reds that night? Was that a way for him to get some of his bets forgiven? And what about his former teammates who have gone to bat for him? The ones who wanted him forgiven cause he had fully admitted to what he did? The ones who thought he should be in the HOF cause he didn't gamble as a player? The ones who despite Rose's constant lies & deceptions still believed in him?

Rose is a low life scum concerned with only one thing: Pete Rose. Pete Rose would never step up to the plate for anybody. But he has fans, teammates, and media defending him & acting as his advocates. Save it for the souls who actually deserve someone in their corner but have nobody. Not a lying, narcissistic, self-promoting, snake of a man addicted to attention but allergic to responsibility & culpability.

TLDR

Pete Rose is the all-time leader in hits. He should be in the Hall of Fame.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Orcin

TLDR

Hmm George Santayana was right.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Hmm George Santayana was right.

Yes, common sense in this thread is so limited. Fortunately, I am here.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Pete Rose is the all-time leader in hits. He should be in the Hall of Fame.

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are both top-10 (maybe top-5 or top-3) players of all time and should be in the Hall of Fame. Not only are both of them fully eligible to become enshired as members, neither were ever punished for doing anything and even their alleged "crimes against baseball" were not only not against the rules but also entirely ignored for half a decade. And not only were both of them better players than Pete Rose, they were better people too.

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are both top-10 (maybe top-5 or top-3) players of all time and should be in the Hall of Fame. Not only are both of them fully eligible to become enshired as members, neither were ever punished for doing anything and even their alleged "crimes against baseball" were not only not against the rules but also entirely ignored for half a decade. And not only were both of them better players than Pete Rose, they were better people too.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....no. Pete's no saint, but neither were they. Lying under oath, anyone? Just because what they did wasn't technically against the rules, doesn't make it right. I say the same thing for them - and all the steroid guys - as I say for Rose...no HOF until after they're dead.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are both top-10 (maybe top-5 or top-3) players of all time and should be in the Hall of Fame.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

And not only were both of them better players than Pete Rose, they were better people too.

And how do you judge that? Are you personally acquainted with all of them? Have you seen each at their best and their worst? How does Ty Cobb rank on your personal list of "better people"? What does any of that have to do with Pete Rose being in the Hall of Fame?

Pete Rose is the all-time leader in hits. It is absurd to exclude him from the Hall of Fame.

[Cobra Mgr]

Did MLB establish betting on the game while employed would result in banishment? Yes.

Did Pete Rose know that betting on the game while employed would result in banishment? Yes

I've never seen why this is an issue. The man has not been treated unfairly. He knew the deal from the get go. And instead of being repentant, the man has never come completely clean in an apology. Why the Pro-Rose lobby contains more than just Pete Rose as a member absolutely baffles me.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Did MLB establish betting on the game while employed would result in banishment? Yes.

Did Pete Rose know that betting on the game while employed would result in banishment? Yes

Banishment from playing and managing is not the issue. Rule 21(d) does not apply to the Hall of Fame. MLB does not run the Hall of Fame.

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame based on his playing record.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Banishment from playing and managing is not the issue. Rule 21(d) does not apply to the Hall of Fame. MLB does not run the Hall of Fame.

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame based on his playing record.

Being banned from the game is a huge issue. That cancels out his playing record.