Spritze/Garlon DB

[thehef]

Spritze wrote:

"The 750 version of the db is included in the game, it is known as neutralized stats."

Are there any differences between the 750 version and the neutralized stats version that is included in the game? From the above quote, it would appear as though they are one and the same. However, this earlier quote calls that into question:

Spritze wrote:

"The original neutralized db submitted to Marcus contained a few Negro and Japanese players. They were dropped from the neutralized db included in the game. Most of the rest of Garlons adaptations like gap seasons and missing war years are in the game version... So the Mod Garlon/Spritze neutralized db is the same as the game one with the addition of the Negro and Japanese players and it has Garlons fielding neutralizations included as well. It also includes any other items dropped from the originally submitted version, of which I think there are none."

Also, with regards to the 750 version, other than in the game, where can those files be found? Would that be the one that's on allsimbaseball.com, under OOTP v8, named Garlon/Spritze Historical DBVer 2.1? If so, does the readme file in this version apply to the in-game neutralized version?

And with regards to the negro league players that are in the 750 version and may or may not be in the neutralized in-game version, are they the ones that Garlon modeled after other major-leaguers (Gibson=Foxx, Leonard=Mize, etc.) or are they the ones that Spritze based on real Negro League stats?

Finally, does the in-game neutralized version base OF ratings on fielding.csv, or fieldingOF.csv?

[Spritze]

Are there any differences between the 750 version and the neutralized stats version that is included in the game? = No

Also, with regards to the 750 version, other than in the game, where can those files be found? Would that be the one that's on allsimbaseball.com, under OOTP v8, named Garlon/Spritze Historical DBVer 2.1? = Yes

And with regards to the negro league players that are in the 750 version and may or may not be in the neutralized in-game version, are they the ones that Garlon modeled after other major-leaguers (Gibson=Foxx, Leonard=Mize, etc.) or are they the ones that Spritze based on real Negro League stats? = Batting and Pitching are Real, Fielding is modeled.

Finally, does the in-game neutralized version base OF ratings on fielding.csv, or fieldingOF.csv? = OF Positions played based on FieldingOF, Ratings based on Fielding.

[thehef]

Thanks very much for the clarifications!

[Milo]

I am using ootp 9 starting in 1916, recalc off. now in 1927
Every negro league position player has imported as a 1st baseman with a contact rating between 4 and 6 none have ever improved, what settings should I be using to have negro league players playing in the majors?

thanks

Milo

[thehef]

Hey Spritze, a few more follow-up questions in my quest to understand the db's in the game...

Selecting the historical_database.odb when setting up a historical league will give you either the standard Lahman db, or the Spritze-Garlon db (if you choose neutralized stats). Correct?

Assuming so, the inclusion of the various csv files in C:\Documents and Settings\[yourname]\My Documents\Out of the Park Developments\OOTP Baseball 9\stats folder is simply a representation of the data in the odb file, with the batting2, fielding2, and pitching2 csv files representing the neutralized data. Correct?

If the above is true, then... I see the 750 file readme:

9. Fixed low AB or IP totals for players who had at least one full season of career stats but may have only had a few AB or IP in a given season.
We pro-rated any missing AB to give a player 251 AB on the season based on his career average.
We pro-rated any missing IP to give a pitcher 40 IP on the season based on his career average.
This was done so that OOTP can provide better ratings in these instances.
All players in the DB who had at least 550 AB career or 162 IP career, will have at least 251 AB and 40 IP in any season in which they played.

When I query the pitching2.csv file, I see that, for example, this is true for Orel Hershiser, whose IP for 1983, 1990, and 2000 - the seasons where he pitched less than 40 innings - were brought up to 40 IP. However, when I look at Fernando Valenzuela's data in the pitching2.csv file, his 1980 and 1991 seasons were not adjusted up to 40 IP. Is this by design, and if so, why?

Thanks in advance.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Milo

I am using ootp 9 starting in 1916, recalc off. now in 1927
Every negro league position player has imported as a 1st baseman with a contact rating between 4 and 6 none have ever improved, what settings should I be using to have negro league players playing in the majors?

thanks

Milo

Looks like the fielding file is messed up for one, maybe redownload it?

For the other recalc is expected to be on. With recalc off the game controls improvements.

[Spritze]

The ODB file is a compiled version of the Lahman so complete history will load.

I'll look into your pitching Q as I have no clue what might be up with this instance.

[thehef]

Also, although I see stats for Negro-Leaguers in batting2.csv, I do not see stats for them in pitching2.csv...

And, in the 750 readme, it shows the career spans of Negro-Leaguers. For examples:

c - Josh Gibson (1933-1949)
1b - Buck Leonard (1929-1945)

However, in the batting2.csv file, the career spans are different:

Josh Gibson = 1929-1946
1b - Buck Leonard = 1933-1955

I don't necessarily see a problem, but I'm just wondering at what the years in the readme represent (maybe actual career?) and how the career spans in the database were determined.

And re my previous post, am I correct in the that the pitching2, batting2, etc., files represent the neutralized data in the odb file?

Thanks

[thehef]

Just to follow up on my previous posts...

Fernando Valenzuela does appear to have his innings brought up to 40 (for 1980 & 1991, seasons IRL where he did not pitch 40 or more innings) in the 750 pitching.csv file. His innings were not brought up to 40 in the 715 file, or the pitching2.csv file that comes with the game (and is supposed (?) to represent the nuetralized db that comes w the game).

Negro-league pitching stats are included in the pitching.csv 750 and 715 files, but they are not included in the pitching2.csv file that comes with the game.

I'm not sure if Negro-leaguers are included in the game when using the historical.odb file. In a historical sim that I started in 1901, I would've expected Negro-leaguers whose career spanned the turn of the century (such as Clarence Wlliams, Frank Grant, and Sol White) to appear in the Free Agent pool, but they did not.

Gap players - like Nick Altrock, who IRL played in 1898, then 1902 and several years beyond - appear to be included with gaps filled in the 715 and 750 batting.csv files, and the batting2.csv file that comes w the game. But Altrock does not appear in the free agent list of the 1901 sim, which leads me to believe that the gaps were not filled in neutralized db (historical.odb) in the game.

So if I'm getting all of this right, it appears as though the files from the 750 database - and not the odb file in the game, nor the pitching2/batting2.csv files that come with the game, nor the 715 files - are the way to go if I want 1) neutralized stats, negro-leaguers, gaps-filled, and IP's & AB's brought up to 40 and 250, respectively.

Spritze, could you please confirm? Thanks in advance.

(Note that most of the above is based upon spot-checking a few players, not extensive querying.)

[Spritze]

As I understand it Markus made a few changes in the neutralized db. I think he removed the Negro and Japanese players as well as possibly the gap fill-ins. I know this was done for OOTPx as I was asked to do it.

I can release a neutralized db if parties are interested including all those items. They are all available in the un-neutered Spritze db. I can neuter Spritze if requested.

[golander40]

Officially requested For months your DB is the only one I use.The Negro League players are a must for me,I've learned so much about that era because of your work,its been a real pleasure.
I'm 70 yrs old and an Ex player,and long time teacher/coach.Your DB started me doing a "ton" of research on the Negro Leagues and found it extremely interesting and pleasurable.I think others might also find it so.
Thanks much for your efforts
Gil

[Spritze]

OK, I'll do it in the next week or so, this weekend my daughter is coming home for spring break.

[dcundy]

yeah I got one of those two. good thing about my daughter is i get to eat the homework she is going to culinary school. anyway i like the others are very appreciative of the work you do to make our gaming experience so fun. thnx

[jeremy7227]

Hey all,

Where's the latest version currently hosted? Can't find a recent version anywhere and I know the latest is due soon. Have we touched base with padrefan?

Thanks.

Jeremy

[PadresFan]

Originally Posted by jeremy7227

Hey all,

Where's the latest version currently hosted? Can't find a recent version anywhere and I know the latest is due soon. Have we touched base with padrefan?

Thanks.

Jeremy

Nope, I haven't been contacted to host a newer version that what I have...

[thehef]

I'm in year 1913 of a historical sim and am using the Spritze/Garlon 750 db which - among other things - excludes Federal League players who did not have 550 AB or 162 IP in the AL/NL.

I'm thinking this would be possible, but wanted to check and see if anyone knows for sure:

At the beginning of 1914 I would allow the game to import players, as usual, in the offseason. Then once that's done, I would change the path to the database - pointing it towards one that includes the Fed players - and selectively import a few. Then, I'd change the path back to the where the 750 db resides so next year's import uses the 750 db. Does that sound like it would work? Any known problems that might come up?

Thanks in advance.

[thehef]

By the way, nevermind on the previous post: The Spritze/Garlon 750 db does NOT exclude Federal Leaguers with less than 550 AB or 162 IP in the AL/NL...

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by PadresFan

Nope, I haven't been contacted to host a newer version that what I have...

The current Spritze/Garlon db has had all it's Negro and Japanese players expunged and is therefore now exactly the same as what is included in OOTPx.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Spritze

The current Spritze/Garlon db has had all it's Negro and Japanese players expunged and is therefore now exactly the same as what is included in OOTPx.

Speaking of the OOTPX Spritze/Garlon, I'm noticing some "interesting" anomalies when it comes to fielding for players with a limited amount of playing time. It may help to explain the following players being rated #1 at their positions when one starts a game in 1985 with "Base Fielding Ratings on Entire Career":

Gilberto Reyes C (a 21 on the 1-20)
Skeeter Barnes 1B ("only" a 19)
Brian Giles (no, not that Brian Giles) 2B (a 25 - "Whoa Nellie" as Keith Jackson used to say)
Craig Gerber 3B (24)
Craig Gerber SS (23)
Bobby Clark (no not the toothless thug from the Broad Street Bullies - that's Clarke) LF (21)
Kirby Puckett CF (legit, earned) with Darrin Jackson right behind him (24 for Puck)
Doug Loman RF (18 - pull up your socks man!)

With all due respect to these gentleman (Puckett belongs - RIP) and their mothers - um no. Just no. Why is this happening? I'm glad you asked. Some players in the "neutered" database (*cough - Gilberto Reyes, *cough - Ricky Adams) are receiving their proper prorated GP, TC, PO, A, E, and DP without receiving their proper prorated IP, which is resulting in gynormous, astronomical (sometimes triple digits and maybe higher, but I can't tell how much because the screen will not allow me to view it fully), other-worldly Range Factors, which if I understand the game's mechanisms properly, not only vaults them above all at the position, but results in lower ratings for the other (my game has ratings based on positions not all players, which means it compares them to other players at their position) stiffs, schlubs and mere mortals who can't keep up with these "super fielders" and their incredible, tremendous awesomeness. This bug desperately needs fixing, as it renders neutralized stats somewhat unplayable. To be fair, I think it's only a few players, but wow, do they ever standout.

Is there a place I can go in the game to fix this, while waiting hopefully for it to be included in the next patch, without encountering the dreaded "The path to the database has changed...blah, blah, blah, ha, ha, ha, you're not going to play this game again" error? Or is it a case of the IP numbers just not rounding up for a select few players in the neutered db and I must wait on Lords Garlon and Spritze to see fit to fix it? I'm perfectly willing to get in there and get my hands dirty, but not if it activates Eeyore the Evil Error Message and forces me to reload my game. Thanks for your time and efforts Spritze and Garlon, or Garlon and Spritze should you prefer.