Competitive balance discussion

[One Post Wonder]

I'll go out on a limb and say he's got an offensively-minded ballpark?

Edit* I'll save some of you the trouble of looking back. His ballpark isn't THAT bad. He's got a stacked team and seems to be really really good at PT.

[scott1964]

Originally Posted by Thalion

Who are the Kentucky Crowns?

I lost to him in the finals

[uschi_baerchen]

[QUOTE=One Post Wonder;4387785]

My best performer is Jose Oquendo, rated 76 or something, and he's clearly better than both of the second basemen listed on there.


Oquendo is about 3 WAR and Cano about 2 WAR, so you are right.

[Ty Cobb]

It's Day 2 of PT and the first place team in my league has 4 perfects, 7 diamonds, and the rest gold. One wonders if, after all that spending, he's just too tired to sell off the 78 mere bronzes on his reserve roster. Why do I even need to bother playing out the season?

We were told that this would not devolve into a plutocracy. It already has. I don't care how much you want to spend...or how little—it's not my business. I'm only suggesting that we should have different realms for those who do and don't want to turn this into an arms race. Guys who want to spend zero should have a place to do so. Guys who want to spend a minimal amount as well. Also, guys who want to bankroll a team of gods should.

That's my suggestion...that we all take a look and realize that not everyone has the inclination or ability to compete if this is only about money. Money requires zero skill and zero thought, but is frequently used as a substitute for both. If PT is allowed to turn into a spending contest, there'll be an initial influx of cash...but after a bit most of us won't give a **** anymore. I fear we'll all be thinking, "Welcome to Tap Sports Baseball"

I'd love to hear civil and constructive ideas about this. I think it's an important discussion to have.

[George_Bell]

They have different tiers for teams that will balance out over time. Have more then a day of patience....

This kind of thing has been discussed alot on here in the last three weeks. The developers have said, the winners will keep moving up in their tiers, and the leagues will remain competitive. It just won't happen overnight....

What I don't understand is what pleasure there is from acquiring that kind of team right away. What are these people gonna be doing 2 months from now. There is no more chase....

I don't love perfect team, but i think it's kind of neat for what it is, but i fully expect to not care about it at some point. Once the chase is over....

[BusterKing]

I suggested it also but all threads like this one are closed very quickly.

[Ty Cobb]

I was suggesting that the tiering be economic as well as success based. I absolutely agree with you as far as the godlike team. That would also get old quickly.

[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

I suggested it also but all threads like this one are closed very quickly.

God made Reddit, isn't it?

[Maddox]

Yep the first few weeks will be the worst because everybody, big spenders and no spenders are all in the league. That league is currently just the entry pool but that same thing will happen the next week when we are all in the Bronze league.

I definitely saw a difference in Beta. The week after they opened up the ability to purchase points every division was a laugher with stacked teams winning by large margins. I had my worst record that season. Then the season after that, when those teams were promoted the divisions were competitive again. I had my best season and ended up with 90 wins and snuck into the wildcard game that season. several divisions went down to the last day and one even went to a one game playoff.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

God made Reddit, isn't it?

If only Markus was on Reddit. But there is no changing their minds. This mode will die quickly because people will get tired real fast. Maybe their tournaments will be setup differently.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by Maddox

Yep the first few weeks will be the worst because everybody, big spenders and no spenders are all in the league. That league is currently just the entry pool but that same thing will happen the next week when we are all in the Bronze league.

I definitely saw a difference in Beta. The week after they opened up the ability to purchase points every division was a laugher with stacked teams winning by large margins. I had my worst record that season. Then the season after that, when those teams were promoted the divisions were competitive again. I had my best season and ended up with 90 wins and snuck into the wildcard game that season.

The purpose of competing is to reach the top, being relegated to an inferior League is not my idea of being the best but to be the best of the best the way it is setup will only be possible with $$$

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

The purpose of competing is to reach the top, being relegated to an inferior League is not my idea of being the best but to be the best of the best the way it is setup will only be possible with $$$

Maybe I am strange because the league I am in does not make that much of a difference to me.


I want to be somewhat competitive and slowly build my team up. I see buying a team as a shortcut to the top levels but I think it takes a lot of the fun of the mode away. I would get bored with the mode in a matter of days if I didn't feel like my team could be continuously improved. It would be like reading the last page of a book first. you skipped all the good stuff to jump to the end.


Smart players can reach those top levels without spending but it will take patience as it will be a marathon for them and not a sprint. I was bumped to AA "Gold" level after my third season in beta with only two golds on my entire roster. I didn't have a pitcher above silver level.

[Bisbo]

Well said, Ty Cobb.

While I enjoyed the beta, I have no interest in spending $$ for points, or in being in a league which requires you to do so in order to succeed.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

I was suggesting that the tiering be economic as well as success based. I absolutely agree with you as far as the godlike team. That would also get old quickly.

Think about it from OOTP's point of view. A no-money league would prevent every single owner in that league from spending money when they may have come across some extra to spend on the game. Why would they do that?

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Maddox

Maybe I am strange because the league I am in does not make that much of a difference to me.


I want to be somewhat competitive and slowly build my team up. I see buying a team as a shortcut to the top levels but I think it takes a lot of the fun of the mode away. I would get bored with the mode in a matter of days if I didn't feel like my team could be continuously improved. It would be like reading the last page of a book first. you skipped all the good stuff to jump to the end.


Smart players can reach those top levels without spending but it will take patience as it will be a marathon for them and not a sprint. I was bumped to AA "Gold" level after my third season in beta with only two golds on my entire roster. I didn't have a pitcher above silver level.

My free to play team is better in one day than all of beta because of a little luck and whales buying my cards. My interest will wane fast.

I liked the game a lot more the first week in beta, when points were scarce and building a team up was a longer process, and the playing field was much more level.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Think about it from OOTP's point of view. A no-money league would prevent every single owner in that league from spending money when they may have come across some extra to spend on the game. Why would they do that?

Because then they can join the money league

[Kris Jardine]

We have addressed this many, many times. The answer is the same.

The relegation/promotion system was built to ensure that you are playing against teams of similar results. It will take a few season cycles to sort itself out. There will be no separation of teams based on amount of money spent.

We listen to the concerns. We monitored this throughout the beta and will continue to monitor it during the full release. We firmly believe the promo/relegation system will work

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Because then they can join the money league

Not in the middle of the season.

[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Think about it from OOTP's point of view. A no-money league would prevent every single owner in that league from spending money when they may have come across some extra to spend on the game. Why would they do that?

Some people are purists and want it that way. Others want to throw money at the problem. What's wrong with having a system that allows for more than one option for strategy?

I'm not saying all of us should run to a no $$$ league. That would be foolish. I'm saying that if possible, options might be explored so that the only option for success isn't throwing money at the problem. You'll notice I also suggested a high rollers division. My feeling is that both are needed, as well as one or more tiers in between. It's discussion. I'm a big believer in this program and its developers. I'm not a big believer in economic stratification...so I've raised the discussion, and hopefully it'll stay on a big enough road that Markus et al will find some good ideas. I don't want to see this turn into a whine-fest. That would defeat the purpose of talking.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

Some people are purists and want it that way. Others want to throw money at the problem. What's wrong with having a system that allows for more than one option for strategy?

I'm not saying all of us should run to a no $$$ league. That would be foolish. I'm saying that if possible, options might be explored so that the only option for success isn't throwing money at the problem. You'll notice I also suggested a high rollers division. My feeling is that both are needed, as well as one or more tiers in between. It's discussion. I'm a big believer in this program and its developers. I'm not a big believer in economic stratification...so I've raised the discussion, and hopefully it'll stay on a big enough road that Markus et al will find some good ideas. I don't want to see this turn into a whine-fest. That would defeat the purpose of talking.

Plus there's also a huge difference between teams that may be throwing hundreds of dollars at their team to buy all the perfects, with the people who throw 5 or 10 bucks here or there to buy a few extra card packs. Figuring out which teams "belong" in each division would be an extra nightmare.

I do think that next year, when we bring in tournaments, that will go a long way to ease concerns. I don't know exactly how we will run them yet, but competing in, say, an "all-bronze" tournament (or we may need an "all-bronze without Ichiro" tournament to balance it better ) is definitely one where everyone will essentially be on an even playing field.