Pete Rose sycophants

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I don't know who believes it. But you said there are many people that believe it, and I asked you to produce one. You apparently cannot do that.

There are plenty of people that believe it. I know plenty of people that support Rose but not Bonds. Just go by the people that support these players. A lot more support Rose than Bonds. That alone will give you a healthy number of what he's talking about.

[Orcin]

Names? Links?

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

There are plenty of people that believe it. I know plenty of people that support Rose but not Bonds. Just go by the people that support these players. A lot more support Rose than Bonds. That alone will give you a healthy number of what he's talking about.

Well, I would support Pete for the Hall and not Bonds.

But that does not mean that I am for giving Pete a free ride (the original premise). He has spent 25 years in purgatory and what he did was wrong, but had absolutely no lasting impact on the game of baseball. What Bonds and the other HGH and steroid cheaters did changed the game forever.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Well, I would support Pete for the Hall and not Bonds.

But that does not mean that I am for giving Pete a free ride (the original premise). He has spent 25 years in purgatory and what he did was wrong, but had absolutely no lasting impact on the game of baseball. What Bonds and the other HGH and steroid cheaters did changed the game forever.

I am sure people like yourself number in the thousands for the reason you just stated. I have no problem with that. But to suggest your opinion is rare or does not exist is like denying it is cooler in the shade.

I personally do not support either of them. I hope the day Rose dies he does so not a member of the HOF, and with no hope of ever becoming a member.

I do not agree with your opinion on Rose. He put himself in a position that could have led the game itself to be compromised. Whether he actually did or did not isn't the issue. We cannot have others thinking it's ok as long as you don't go too far.

[magnet 2.0]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Well, I would support Pete for the Hall and not Bonds.

But that does not mean that I am for giving Pete a free ride (the original premise). He has spent 25 years in purgatory and what he did was wrong, but had absolutely no lasting impact on the game of baseball. What Bonds and the other HGH and steroid cheaters did changed the game forever.

Well, right. The Black Sox changed it forever, making it a lifetime ban, not a 25 year ban. Rose was too late for that party. Don't see how that changes his guilt or gets him off his punishment early. In fact, it makes it worse; he knew EXACTLY what would happen and did it anyway.

And steroids didn't change the game forever. Offense has plummeted since testing started. Do you know what "forever' means?

[Orcin]

Mantle and May were permanently banned also. Yet, they are in the Hall of Fame and they were reinstated. The same thing could, and should, happen for Rose while he is alive to bask in the glory.

In fact, the right thing to do would be to announce it tomorrow and invite Rose to the All-Star Game to receive the ovation from the Cincinnati fans.

[magnet 2.0]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Mantle and May were permanently banned also. Yet, they are in the Hall of Fame and they were reinstated. The same thing could, and should, happen for Rose while he is alive to bask in the glory.

In fact, the right thing to do would be to announce it tomorrow and invite Rose to the All-Star Game to receive the ovation from the Cincinnati fans.

So you're comparing Pete Rose actively betting on the team he was playing for/managing to working the front door at a casino with the contract hinging on them following strict "no gambling" rules? You are really stretching these comparisons to defend Rose. And frankly, Rose doesn't deserve to bask in any glory.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by magnet 2.0

So you're comparing Pete Rose actively betting on the team he was playing for/managing to working the front door at a casino with the contract hinging on them following strict "no gambling" rules? You are really stretching these comparisons to defend Rose. And frankly, Rose doesn't deserve to bask in any glory.

No worse than comparing a fella who bet on his team to win with people who threw a World Series......

What Pete did, did not affect ANYONE, other than himself. It merely gave the appearance of impropriety, which is bad, but gee whiz.....I hope if I am ever accused of anything that none of you haters are on my jury......

To those that say that Pete maybe manipulated his bullpen to win the games he bet on, I say that that is an utterly ridiculous argument. Back in those days ALL the managers were trying to win every game, even the ones they did not bet on and NO ONE ever gave a thought to tomorrow's game when trying to win today's. Leo Durocher had a famous saying that you never save a pitcher for tomorrow, because it might rain tomorrow. And besides, in those days, if your bullpen got a little tired, you had a good shot at getting a complete game from you starter.

So, tell me exactly what it is that Pete could do to try to win a game that any other manager would not have done? It's just a stupid argument and only made by people who do not understand what the game was like back then.

Corporate lawyers making recommendations to baby the arms of young pitchers and shutting them down after 175 innings and such hooey were no where to be found (thankfully). Everyone played to win and everything else was secondary. Today winning is secondary to health and happiness, but it wasn't always that way and it had nothing to do with any wagers Pete had out.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by magnet 2.0

So you're comparing Pete Rose actively betting on the team he was playing for/managing to working the front door at a casino with the contract hinging on them following strict "no gambling" rules?

Yes, and I think it is a fair comparison. We don't know that Pete Rose ever influenced the outcome of a game because of gambling. We don't know what acts Mantle may have committed or caused to happen because of his association with gamblers.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by magnet 2.0

And frankly, Rose doesn't deserve to bask in any glory.

When Rose is introduced Tuesday night as one of the Reds' franchise greats, I will be standing and applauding in my living room.

[swampdragon]

If Rose were reinstated tomorrow and made eligible for the BBWAA HOF vote, he wouldn't have a prayer of getting in.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

If Rose were reinstated tomorrow and made eligible for the BBWAA HOF vote, he wouldn't have a prayer of getting in.

Not sure if he would go into the regular pool or be under the auspices of the old-timers committee. The committee would certainly put him in.

And why do you think the writers would not vote him in? Has there been a pole of this?

P.S. Looked it up and Pete would not be eligible for the writers to vote on as a player has to have been active within the last 15 years. So his fate would go to a committee where he would be a slam dunk, I would think.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Not sure if he would go into the regular pool or be under the auspices of the old-timers committee. The committee would certainly put him in.

And why do you think the writers would not vote him in? Has there been a pole of this?

P.S. Looked it up and Pete would not be eligible for the writers to vote on as a player has to have been active within the last 15 years. So his fate would go to a committee where he would be a slam dunk, I would think.

Shoeless Joe, Hal Chase, and Jim Devlin's exclusion among others refutes your assumption.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Orcin

We don't know that Pete Rose ever influenced the outcome of a game because of gambling.

That doesn't matter as far as the rule is concerned. The rule is crystal clear. Rose broke it. In the words of the old saying, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Rose could have avoided it all by simply restraining his betting to everything else other than baseball. He could have bet on horses, football, basketball, hockey. He could have gone to Vegas and dropped money on craps, blackjack, roulette, poker. But instead he stupidly—stupidly—bet on the one thing he couldn't: baseball.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That doesn't matter as far as the rule is concerned. The rule is crystal clear. Rose broke it. In the words of the old saying, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

He has done enough time.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Orcin

He has done enough time.

The rule disagrees; I've bolded the relevant word.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The rule disagrees; I've bolded the relevant word.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

I disagree with the rule. Rules are made to be broken.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I disagree with the rule.

Great. Now convince MLB and the MLBPA to rewrite the rule, and convince them to get Rose's breaking of it retroactively overturned. Until then, he's guilty, and serving the punishment prescribed by the rule.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Great. Now convince MLB and the MLBPA to rewrite the rule, and convince them to get Rose's breaking of it retroactively overturned. Until then, he's guilty, and serving the punishment prescribed by the rule.

I am working on it. Until then, he is serving an unjust sentence.

FREE PETE!!!!

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That doesn't matter as far as the rule is concerned. The rule is crystal clear. Rose broke it. In the words of the old saying, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Rose could have avoided it all by simply restraining his betting to everything else other than baseball. He could have bet on horses, football, basketball, hockey. He could have gone to Vegas and dropped money on craps, blackjack, roulette, poker. But instead he stupidly—stupidly—bet on the one thing he couldn't: baseball.

to be a little more accurate, Rose could have bet on all the baseball games he wanted as long as his team wasn't involved. The rule specifically states that the bettor can't bet on games in which they have a duty to perform (or be permanently banned). If he bet on other games and got caught, it would have just been a 1 year ban.