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#221 |
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Hey Joe (or anyone else with the knowledge), once the info is gathered in one format or another for a historical minor league schedule, is there a process or tool to turn that into an OOTP schedule file? I mean other than keying it in line by line
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#222 |
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I convert schedules directly from the newspapers into OOTP format. I don't know if there is an interim step where you transfer that raw data into a different format and then into OOTP format.
Le Grand Orange (LGO) had a bunch of minor-league schedules that he put into his own format and then Outlaw Jim converted those into OOTP schedules. How he did it, though, I have no idea, and Outlaw Jim hasn't been around these boards since April 2020. His schedules are in this thread if you want to see them. I trust that doesn't answer your question ![]() |
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#223 | ||
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Edit: I thought you were referring to the bunches of schedules that are in the stickied thread. However, I think I now realize you are referring to the fact that there are many other non-OOTP-formatted (yet) schedules that can be plucked from this thread, and then converted to OOTP format by a willing chap, such as myself (as I might be doing for some PCL schedules, perhaps starting with 1931 ![]() Last edited by thehef; 01-27-2022 at 03:20 PM. |
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#224 | ||
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Quote:
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![]() If there's any particular schedule you want, I can work on it. Old PCL schedules are actually fairly easy to find, although not always in good condition. |
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#225 | |
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At any rate, I had been cobbling info together, starting with the PCL 1931 schedule, by going through day to day old newspapers (also with the goal of finding PCL player transactions). But then I saw LGO's stuff, so I guess I can work on some from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's... over time of course. If you want to pick any of those off, that'd be great! |
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#226 | |
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#227 |
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You asked specifically about the 1931 PCL schedule. As far as I'm aware, Outlaw Jim never got around to that one. If it's in LGO's files, then that's as equally accessible to you as it is to me. Have at it! If you're looking for something that's not in their collections, then you can always come to me.
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#228 | |
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#229 | |
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The SABR access is a great added benefit, but it doesn't include all the papers, just the "World Collection" which is a little more than about half the total, so papers from some of the class C & D leagues and any schedules in them, probably aren't included.
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#230 | ||
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For 1931, I have the start times for nearly all games played at Wrigley Field in LA (so these would be the home games for the Angels and Stars). I don't know if those were standard start times throughout the league, or just in LA. My hunch is that they were standard for some of the other teams, but not all. At any rate, here's what I have for Wrigley games, and what I'm choosing to go with league-wide: Weekday & Saturday afternoon games: 2:15 pm start time at Wrigley; using using 2 pm for the entire league (including Wrigley) Weeknight & Saturday night games: 8:15 pm start thru 5/16/31, 8:30 pm start after 5/16/31; using 8 pm for the league Saturday & Sunday doubleheaders: 1:30 pm for first game, with 2nd game start time not specified; using 1:30 pm for first game, 4 pm for 2nd game for the league In addition, night games became the standard for weeknights & Saturdays as follows: Hollywood - first night game was on 5/7/31 (originally scheduled for 5/5 but changed several days prior) LA - first night game was 5/12 Mission - 5/5 Oakland - 5/6 Portland - 5/26 (continued to play some weekday games in the afternoon thru mid-June) Sacramento - 5/12 San Fran - 4/24 (continued to play some day games thru the end of April) Seattle - 5/26 The difference in when teams started playing games at night is partially due to some teams being on the road. For example, it's highly likely that LA and Hwd were ready to begin home night games at the same time. But LA was on the road at that time so their first home night game was the following week. Night games became the standard for all home teams after their initial night game (as per above), but of course there were exceptions and for the most part I'm able to identify those. LGO's 1931 PCL schedule (the data is not in OOTP schedule format) indicates that all games were played during the day (except for a some - the Sacramento team's games played at Stockton - that were indicated as morning games; he has no night games indicated. My hunch is that his source indicated all games as being day games because at the time of publishing the schedule, it was not known when each team would begin hosting night games, that it would be determined by each team at a later day, and likely influenced by weather. Finally, the season was a split-season format schedule, but that was not announced until 7/1/31, with the first half ending on Sunday 7/5/31 (with the teams playing an average of 89 or 90 games. However, OOTP will decide when to split the schedule; probably after 94 games (of a 187-schedule). So based upon all of the above - including the fact that some details of the schedule weren't finalized until the season was underway - will make this some sort of hybrid between an "as scheduled" (dates) schedule and and "as played" (times) one. If you have any suggestions, etc., before I finalize the file, please let me know ![]() |
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#231 | |||
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I'm not sure why that happened. The 3:00 start time was to accommodate white-collar workers, whose workdays often ended at 3:00 during the summer. During the McGraw era, NY Giants used to start their games at 4:00 - the rationale being that workers in the financial district who got out of work at 3:00 would have to take the subway to the Polo Grounds, which was at the northern end of Manhattan (you can take a look at this thread for more information on that). I can only guess that ballclubs stopped trying to grab the after-work crowd and started looking at the after-school crowd as a way to boost attendance. Of course, as Lee Elia pointed out, the only adults who could regularly attend Cubs day games were the chronically unemployed (although he put it in a much more colorful way). Quote:
Sounds great! I look forward to the finished product. |
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#232 |
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1931 PACIFIC COAST LEAGUE
Teams: Hollywood Stars Los Angeles Angels Mission (San Francisco) Reds Oakland Oaks Portland Beavers Sacramento Senators San Francisco Seals Seattle Indians Schedule Characteristics: SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G187_T8_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="187" start_month="4" start_day="7" start_day_of_week="3" Each team plays 187 games. Teams play between 92 and 95 home/away games, and teams play each other between 24 and 30 times during the season. Season starts on April 7th and ends on October 4th. Teams typically play every day, Tuesday through Sunday (with doubleheaders on Sundays). The PCL had a split schedule in 1931, however, this wasn't decided until the week before the split occured. The first half of the season ended after the games on July 6th. OOTP will split the schedule after games of Tuesday, July 7th, which (if no rainouts) is after each team has played 93 games. -No games scheduled on Mondays (typically a travel day) except for doubleheaders on Labor Day, Sept 7th. -Double-headers on Sundays and holidays - Memorial Day (5/30), Independence Day (7/4), Labor Day (9/7), and Admission Day (9/9). -Weekday afternoon and Saturday afternoon games typically start at 1:30 pm or 2:00 pm. Double-header games start at 1:30 pm noon and 4:00 pm. -Weekday evening and Saturday evening games typically start at 8pm. Sacramento scheduled to host games - primarily on Sundays - at Stockton on 4/12, 4/19, 5/17, 5/24, 6/14, 7/4, 7/5, 7/12, 7/19, 8/16, 9/6, 9/7, 9/9, 9/13, 9/20, 10/4 (Morning games of a doubleheaders, with the 2nd game to be played in Sacramento in the afternoon.) Note, however, that Stockton's park suffered significant fire damage on 6/13. Therefore Sacramento did not play games in Stockton in June, July or August, but returned to Stockton on 9/6. Notes on start times: 1) Actual start times for most teams not known; times (above) are based upon start times used at Wrigley Field for games hosted by Stars and Angels. Day vs Night games are fairly accurate, though, based upon newspaper accounts. 2) All teams started the season with weekday afternoon games being the norm. However, the plan was to switch primarily to night games as soon as possible. Each team's first hosted night games were as follows (and reflected in this schedule file): HWD - 5/7 LAL - 5/12 MIS - 5/5 OAK - 5/6 POR - 5/26 SAC - 5/12 SFO - 4/24 SEA - 5/26 NOTE: To get correct time zone & start times to appear in OOTP, it may be needed to edit Mission's city to San Francisco (and not Mission, Texas) and Hollywood's city to Los Angeles (and not Hollywood, Florida). As info-only, the schedule for the PCL championship series was as follows: Tue 10/6: HWD @ SFS, night Wed 10/7: HWD @ SFS, night Thu 10/8: HWD @ SFS, night Fri 10/9: travel-by-train (HWD departed in the morning, SFS departed in the evening) Sat 10/10: SFS @ HWD, 8 pm *Sun 10/11: SFS @ HWD, probably 1:30 pm *Mon 10/12: SFS @ HWD, probably 8 pm or 8:15 pm *Tue 10/13: SFS @ HWD, probably 8 pm or 8:15 pm *games were not necessary due to HWD's 4-game sweep |
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#233 |
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Fantastic stuff! And really impressive research. Thanks for posting that, thehef.
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#234 |
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#235 | ||
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I was thinking of adding a "first_half_close" and "second_half_open" date entries in the header of the schedule file. |
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#236 |
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1953 BIG STATE LEAGUE
Teams: Austin Pioneers Longview Paris Indians Temple Eagles Texarkana Bears Tyler East Texans Waco Pirates Wichita Falls Spudders All teams located in TX Schedule Characteristics: <SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G147_T8_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="147" start_month="4" start_day="14" start_day_of_week="3"> Season starts on April 14 and ends on September 7. Teams play 73 or 74 home games. Teams play each opponent 21 times. Weekday and Saturday games start at 7:00. Sunday games start at 1:00. Holiday (Independence Day, Labor Day) double-headers start at noon and 3:00. Baseball Reference shows Waco and Longview as sharing a Pirates affiliate and Greenville/Bryan having a team called the "Majors." This schedule is based on the one printed in The Sporting News prior to the season, so some rearrangement might have occurred. No off-days for this Class B league except for July 17-18, which was the league's all-star break. The circuit could have avoided the odd number of games by simply scheduling double-headers for Memorial Day, but that didn't seem to occur to anyone. Big State 1953.lsdl For those of you who absolutely must have an even number of games, I've modded the schedule by using the two off days to add a game for each club. <SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G148_T8_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="148" start_month="4" start_day="14" start_day_of_week="3"> Teams play 148 games. Teams play 74 home games and play each opponent 21 or 22 times. Big State mod 1953.lsdl |
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#237 |
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1903 PACIFIC COAST LEAGUE
This was the inaugural season of the PCL - essentially a rebranding and expansion of the California League - with the Los Angeles, Sacramento, Oakland, and San Francisco franchise being joined by Portland from the Pacific National League, and Seattle as a new franchise. Teams: Los Angeles Angels Oakland Oaks Portland Browns Sacramento Senators San Francisco Seals Seattle Siwashes Schedule Characteristics: SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G241_T6_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="241" start_month="3" start_day="26" start_on_weekday="5" Teams play between 223 and 241 games. The 1903 PCL schedule was wildly unbalanced, as teams played each other between 25 and 58 times. Why LA & Sacramento were scheduled to play just 25 times, while nearly all other matchups were between 40 and 58 games, I have no idea. The season starts on March 26th and ends on November 29th. While this file was partially sourced from the file that SandMan posted in post #50 of this thread, it was primarily sourced from the schedule printed in the 2/15/1903 LA Times and from research found in the Los Angeles Herald and San Francisco Call. (See Note A below for summary of differences between this file and SandMan's.) The 1903 PCL schedule can be summarized as follows:
Finally, this schedule is neither the "original" schedule nor should it be considered "as played" (it does not account for rainouts). Since minor league schedules of this era were always works in progress, so-called "original" schedules were more of "initial drafts" and not just "subject to change" but expected to change. Therefore, while others may see it differently, I consider the type of schedule in this post to be the more-accurate & more-realistic type of schedule for use in OOTP. IOW, it evolved as the intended schedule. ************************************************** ************************* Add'l notes for those who feel the above wasn't long enough ![]() NOTE A - SandMan's file vs the attached file It's important to note that SandMan's work was solid, and no criticism is intended. It's just that it was based on a published schedule that turned out to not be as accurate as the published one I used for the attached file. What's interesting is that SandMan's schedule was based on LGO's schedule file that was sourced from The Sporting News, 3/7/1903; whereas the actual schedule that played out was much closer to the schedule that was printed in the 2/15/1903 LA Times. Why TSN would have a less-accurate schedule at a later date (compared to LAT), I have no idea. Differences/changes, etc.:
NOTE B - Bay Area Doubleheaders / Home Team Designation
Last edited by thehef; 01-16-2025 at 11:37 PM. Reason: grammar, clarity |
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#238 |
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As a quick aside regarding earlier PCL schedules, from what I remember looking at them, teams sometimes weren't even scheduled to play the same number of games.
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#239 |
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#240 |
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1901 CALIFORNIA LEAGUE
This was either the third or fourth - and penultimate - season of this iteration of the California League. (Some sources consider this California League to have begun with the 1899 season, while others trace its origins to a merger of two 1898 start-up leagues - the Pacific States League and the California League, which briefly resulted in the league renaming itself the "Pacific Coast League" before it reverted to the more-traditional "California League.") Teams: Los Angeles Angels Oakland Commuters Sacramento Senators San Francisco Wasps Schedule Characteristics: SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G169_T4_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="169" start_month="3" start_day="31" start_on_weekday="1" This schedule is primarily based upon the schedule printed in the 4/6/1901 edition of The Sporting Life, and also based upon research in a the Los Angeles Herald and San Francisco Call. Teams play between 156 and 169 games: LA 158 (76h, 82r) Oak 167 (96h, 71r) Sac 156 (69h, 87r) SF 169 (84h, 85r) Teams play each other 55-57 times, except LA/Sac play each other just 45 times. Season starts on March 31st and ends on December 1st. Series' run Thursday through Sunday, with doubleheaders in the Bay Area on Sundays (morning game in Oakland, afternoon game in San Francisco). (Note that Since OOTP schedule file formatting doesn't allow for games being played at locations other than at the home team's park, Oakland or San Francisco - whichever team is hosting the series - is designated as the home team for both the morning and afternoon game of doubleheaders. However, when the matchup includes both Oakland and San Francisco, Oakland is the home team for the morning game and San Francisco is the home team for the afternoon game.)
Start Times Actual start times not known, although start times for games in LA are generally known. For this schedule file:
Update Notes & Alternate File
SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G169_T4_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="169" start_month="4" start_day="19" start_on_weekday="6"> Last edited by thehef; 01-17-2025 at 12:00 AM. Reason: updates & clarity |
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