My Universe

[Lee]

Will be eager to see where Dempsey debuts, is he still at Pre-Prime?

[JCWeb]

Lee, Dempsey is still at Pre-Prime. I don't use Auto-Aging but instead use the sort feature and make sure all RL guys move to Prime after 20 bouts after which the career retirement points countdown begins (100 pp, I think it was the Cubedrum system). TCs I move up to Prime after fewer bouts (15 usually). As for rankings, all fighters become eligible for a ranking after 15 bouts. By way of comparison, the great Harry Wills (the man who Dempsey was accused of ducking throughout his career) won his first 18 in a row, 17 by KO, and this was good for #8 in the HW rankings list with slightly more than 700 pp, which may be a good target for where Jack may wind up when the 1916 action concludes. Depends on how many bouts he gets in, strength of opposition, and of course, if he keeps winning ...

Incidentally, while we are on the subject of consecutive KO win streaks, I would be remiss to leave out WW prospect Willie Loughlin, who just blasted out his first true RL opponent, Australian Fred Kay (TKO in the first), and now has a perfect 11-0 record, all by KOs, to start his career off well.

All of this reminds me I am up to the WW for the recap and "Champs or Chumps" feature, which will be the subject of the next post or two.

[JCWeb]

Returning to the historical recap feature, this time for the WW Division.

WBA Champs (15 in all so far)

Paddy Duffy 1886-87, 1889
William McMillan 1887-89
Tommy Ryan 1889-90, 1890-92, 1893-97
Tom Meadows 1890
Mysterious Billy Smity 1892-93, 1897, 1900
Joe Walcott 1897-98, 1900-01, 1903, 1904-05
Matty Matthews 1898-99
Young Peter Jackson 1899-1900, 1901-02, 1902-03
Rube Ferns 1902
Jimmy Gardner 1903-04
Dixie Kid 1905-06, 1908-09, 1911
Joe Gans 1906-08, 1911-12
Jack Britton 1909-11, 1912-14, 1914-15
Dick Nelson 1914, 1915
Ted Kid Lewis 1915-

Ryan in the division's early years was the closest thing to a dominant champion, but then he stepped up to MW just when some strong new competitors like Mysterious Billy Smith, Walcott, Matthews, Young Peter Jackson, and Rube Ferns started making their presence felt. Walcott, along with Britton more recently, had the potential to dominate but both were hurt by a propensity to commit fouls that cost them more than once in big title bouts.

All-time Records

Most Bouts

Joe Walcott 89
Mysterious Billy Smith 82
Matty Matthews 69
Young Peter Jackson 68
Dixie Kid 67

Active: Dixie Kid 67 Hurley and Joseph 63 Mellody 61

Most Wins

Walcott 63
Mysterious Billy 57
Young Peter Jackson and Dixie Kid 49
William McMillan 45

Active: Dixie Kid 49 Mellody, Jimmy Gardner 38 Britton, Summers 37

Most KOs

Mysterious Billy 40
Young Peter Jackson 33
William McMillan, Rube Ferns 30
Paddy Duffy, Tom Meadows 25

Active: McFarland, Dixie Kid 20 Dick Nelson, Willie Lewis 19

Most Consecutive Wins

Packey McFarland 26
Joe Walcott and Paddy Duffy 22
Young Peter Jackson 18

Active: McFarland 26 J. Gardner 16 Ted Kid Lewis, Shevlin, Whitney 15

Most Consecutive KOs

Young Peter Jackson 12
Willie Loughlin, Willie Lewis, Rube Ferns 11
Tommy Robson, Dick Nelson 10

Active: Loughlin and W. Lewis 11 D. Nelson, Robson 10

Packey McFarland, who holds the longest win streak, may also hold the dubious distinction of being the top #1 contender for the longest period of time (several years now) without coming up with the WBA title. Loughlin, it should be noted, is one KO away from tying a record for the most consecutive KOs by a WW. (Although, looking back, Ryan's 17 KO win streak which appears on the MW list -- all at the start of his career -- was actually set against WW competition before he moved up -- sort of like Fitz's record against LHs showing up on the HW list.)

[mh2365]

Good stuff as always JC

[Jeff1787]

How many times has Packey McFarland fought for the title?

[JCWeb]

And it's also back to the Champs or Chumps feature, again focusing on the WW division. Here's the list of RL undisputed WW champs versus what has happened so far in my Uni

Paddy Duffy RL: October 1888 Uni: December 1886
Mysterious Billy Smith RL: December 1892 Uni: October 1892
Tommy Ryan RL: July 1894 Uni: December 1889
Rube Ferns RL: Jan. 1900 Uni: June 1902
Matty Matthews RL: Oct. 1900 Uni; Dec. 1898
Joe Walcott RL: Dec. 1901 Uni: Nov. 1897
Dixie Kid RL: Apr. 1904 Uni: Jul. 1905
Honey Mellody RL: Oct. 1906 Uni: Not Yet (still active)
Mike (Twin) Sullivan RL: Apr. 1907 Uni: Not Yet (still active)
Waldemar Holberg RL: Jan. 1914 Uni: Not Yet (still active)
Tom McCormick RL: Jan. 1914 Uni: Not Yet (still active)
Matt Wells RL: Mar. 1914 Uni: Not Yet (still active)
Mike Glover RL: Jan. 1915 Uni: Not Yet (still active)
Jack Britton RL: Jan. 1915 Uni: May 1909
Ted Kid Lewis RL: Aug. 1915 Uni: Nov. 1915

In the early years there was a fairly consistent pattern of the RL champs ascending to the throne in my Uni, usually a bit ahead of their RL schedule. (I attribute this mainly to the fact that I was eager to schedule more frequent World title bouts that happened IRL). Then, more recently, the reverse has occurred -- for example, the dates starting in 1914 listed here are accurate: Waldemar Holberg took the World WW belt on Jan. 1, 1914 and lost it less than a month later to Tom McCormick. Then it was Matt Wells' turn in March of that year, making it three new champs in less than three months! This kind of frequent change of title belts just doesn't happen in my ficitional Uni!! (And very rare in RL as well.)

What has happened is that Britton and Ted Kid Lewis, who were the dominant champs into the 20s, have emerged sooner in the Uni than in IRL while the plethora of kind of "interim" RL champs (guye like Mellody, Sullivan, etc.) did not emerge although they had their chances. Mellody, in particular, has been a big disappointment and, now that he and Sullivan are nearing the tail-end of their careers, a reversal of form is highly unlikely. (Sullivan at least rose to #1 contender status, while Mellody has drifted in and out of the Top 10.) On the other hand, Joe Gans, the great LW champion, did step up in my Uni to hold the WW title belt on two occasions, once when well past his prime late in his career (in RL he fought for the WW belt but did not capture it). Holberg still has a shot but doesn't seem like he will make it to the top -- same is true for Mike Glover. McCormick, who was killed in action in WW I, has already hit his Post-Prime and has been struggling, at best, in my Uni and Matt Wells has likewise had a rocky career so far. Britton and Lewis, as in IRL, are likely to be the dominant performers in the Uni for years to come although once the year-end reports for 1916 are filed, you will note a surprise champion in the Uni who I don't believe even merited a world title shot in real life!!! (And no, I am not talking about Packey McFarland, either.)

[JCWeb]

Dateline Los Angeles, June 3, 1916 -- "The Fighting Marine" Gene Tunney entered the ring for his fifth professional bout, demonstrating that the three month layoff was more than made up for by the rigorous training in Marine Corps service. His opponent for this scheduled 6-round bout was TC Mel Bracken, who entered with a 1-3-1 mark, not too impressive except for a draw he fought with RL light heavy prospect Steve Choynski. However, a the weigh-ins Bracken seemed a bit pudgy and out of shape -- so could it be another easy KO win for Gene>

First round, Tunney moves to the inside to take command. The light-hitting Bracken is already on the defensive, backpedaling to stay away from the Marine's vaunted punching ability. Gene finally connects with a wicked cross to the head just after the one minute mark. Bracken goes down and does not get up.

Tunney by KO at 1:36 of the first. He moves to 5-0, all by KO, and 383 pps. More importantly, he moves from Beginner to Pre-Prime, meaning he is likely to face stiffer competition in the LHW arena and move up a level to 8-round and eventually 10-round contests. However, military service means it may be another three months or so before Gene's next bout.

Next report, Jack Dempsey is matched up with an even tougher RL opponent as he goes for his 15th consecutive KO win in the HW division.

[JCWeb]

Dateline Chicago's Comiskey Park, June 10, 1916 -- Unbeaten HW prospect Jack Dempsey appears in the main support bout for the WBA Light Heavy Title clash involving Georges Carpentier before a huge throng here in Chicago. Dempsey will be going for his 15th consecutive win by KO and his opponent, a well-traveled veteran named Tony Ross, knows all the tricks of the trade from a career that dates back to his debut, some 11 years ago right here in Chicago. However, Tony has been down on his luck recently and is clearly on the downside of his long ring career, having lost three in a row by KO to the likes of Matthew "Petty Officer" Curran, George "Boer" Rodel and Denver Jack Geyer, so his 21-18-1 (9) career record is not going to scare Dempsey or the fans, who have installed the Manassa Mauler as a 6-to-1 betting favorite. A win by Dempsey will mean a rating somewhere in the top 15 HWs right now.

Round one, bell sounds and Dempsey quickly traps Ross in a corner, working the head, body, and scoring a hook to the head. Ross is looking for a breather after just the first minute when he is stung by another flurry from Dempsey. The Manassa Mauler nails Ross with a straight right late in the round, but Ross did well to hold his own after the initial onslaught.

Round two, Ross tries to stay away from Dempsey's power and succeeds until a right hand to the chin staggers the veteran journeyman, midway through the round. Ross' left eye is already showing signs of swelling after several more Dempsey blows find their target. Dempsey punctuates the round with a left hook right before the bell, but Ross remains upright.

Round three, more of the same as Dempsey pursues Ross with a more methodical approach, looking for openings. Ross gets in a few good licks in a sharp exchange of blows near the center of the ring. Late in the round more Dempsey punches find their way home, reddening the mounting swelling around Ross' left eye.

In round four, Ross tries to change his luck by going toe-to-toe on the inside with Dempsey, something that has proved to be a mistake for others in prior bouts. Dempsey proves this when he connects with a solid uppercut less than a minute into the round, and Ross finds himself on his back as a result. He rises at the count of six, tries to cover up but Dempsey's great killer instinct is already in high gear, and another uppercut scores a second KD less than a minute later. There's plenty of time left for Jack to finish the job, and he does so, landing a combination for the third KD of the round and an automatic TKO victory.

Dempsey by TKO in the 4th (sorry didn't note the time) to go to 15-0 (15 KO wins) and 654 pp. This is good for #14 spot in the recent WBA HW rankings, and Dempsey will now almost surely be facing better competition in his next bout, perhaps a top ten opponent by the end of 1916. Right now he is just behind of guys like Willard, Miske and Fulton in the rankings, all of whom have lost bouts, but who have more pp because of having faced a higher caliber of opponents than Dempsey, who is still being brought along rather carefully.

[CONN CHRIS]

The real life comparisons are just great JC, keep them up! You really make me wish that I had gone the historical route. If mine ever blows up on me I certainly will.

[JCWeb]

July 22, 1916 -- dateline, Phoenix, Arizona: Jack Dempsey comes to this cow town to help liven up things as the co-main event on a 15-bout card at the newly-renovated Dodge Theatre. This time he has stepped up in class to face a former Top Ten heavyweight contender. Jack looks rarin' to go against Mike Schreck, who was ranked as high as #7 at one time, almost a decade ago. Now his skills have diminished, but he is still a "name" opponent for the young Dempsey even though he has maybe a few bouts left. Schreck enters the contest with a 36-24-1 record, with 24 wins inside the distance. Even those his best days are long behind him, Schreck can pack a punch, as his most recent KO of Swede Ragnar Holmberg demonstrated, so the "Manassa Mauler" had better be prepared.

In the first round, Dempsey tries to connect with a hook from way outside, then wisely closes the distance to hammer home a solid uppercut. Schreck responds by landing an uppercut of his own. Dempsey uses a jab to work his way inside, but is warned by the ref Zach Clayton for head-butting. Still, the bell sounds after a strong start by Dempsey.

Round two, Dempsey uses the jab to set up a strong hook that staggers Schreck. Dempsey is once again warned by the ref, this time for holding and hitting. As in round one, it's Dempsey's round by a wide margin.

In the third, Dempsey is looking to end this one early and Schreck is definitely on the defensive. Not much in the way of solid blows until midway through the round Dempsey finds the mark with a crippling right hand, and Schreck is forced to cover up. Dempsey follows up with another right, a hook to the head, and then corners a hapless Schreck with a big combination before the bell saves him from further damage. Big round to Dempsey, and Schreck was lucky to make it to round four.

Fourth round, Dempsey is looking to keep that KO streak intact. Schreck is backpedaling, trying to avoid Dempsey's power. A hard jab connects for the Manassa man, followed by a cross, and Dempsey bounces off the ropes to deliver more punishment with a hook to the midsection. Schreck is somehow still standing when Dempsey delivers a big hook to the head, and the ref wisely steps in to stop the bout.

Jack Dempsey by TKO at 2:44 of round 4. His unbeaten streak reaches 16, all by KO. His PP total of 686 is good enough for the #14 spot (another boxer had won a bout to pass him since his last fight).

NOTE: In this month, Dempsey was the highest ranked challenger to the current WBA titleholder, but I deliberately held him out of the title picture until he gains more experience, and besides seeing this KO streak continue is exciting!

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

The real life comparisons are just great JC, keep them up! You really make me wish that I had gone the historical route. If mine ever blows up on me I certainly will.

I am kind of thinking the same way....

Dempsey looking very good....

[JCWeb]

August 26, 1916 -- St Nicholas Arena, New York City -- Jack Dempsey heads East for his first big bout as a co-feature at St. Nicholas Arena against once-beaten Fred Fulton, another highly regarded up-and-coming young heavyweight. Fulton, who has compiled an impressive 16-1 (11) mark so far, enters the bout just one spot ahead of Dempsey in the HW rankings and represents the Manassa Mauler's sternest test thus far. The betting public makes Dempsey a 2-to-1 favorite.

Round one, Fulton tries to launch a hook from the outside, but Dempsey evades the blow and swoops in underneath, scoring with a quick hook to the head. Dempsey forces Fulton against the ropes, but there is alot of clutching and clawing but not much in the way of blows being landed. Fulton wraps up the round one action with a short uppercut and he holds a slight edge over Dempsey in terms of punches landed.

Second round sees Dempsey rushing Fulton on the inside, and he connects with a hook to the head of Fulton. Fulton lands with a tremendous left of his own, and he uses his jab to keep Dempsey at bay. Another hard hook lands for Dempsey, staggering Fulton, but Fred gets in the last licks as Dempsey is cut above the right eye.

Dempsey, undeterred, looks for the knockout blow from the outset of round three. Fulton tries to target Dempsey's cut eye. Dempsey finds his mark with a sharp combination, followed up with a hook and a strong cross. Dempsey pins Fulton against the ropes, and as the bell sounds Fulton is dripping blood from a cut forehead. Huge round for Dempsey.

Round four, and Dempsey is once again the aggressor, pressing the action as he scores a hard shot to the head, setting up a cross that drops Fulton to the canvas. Fred arises at the count of 5 and immediately covers up. With almost two minutes left, Dempsey's killer instinct kicks in, and he lands a cross and a wicked combination to put Fulton down for a second time. Fulton is back up and although another KD will finish him, Dempsey swings and misses so Fulton lasts the round -- barely.

Fulton's corner revives him, works on patching up the cut, sending him back into the fray for round 5. Dempsey lands a three-punch combo and tries to follow up on his success in the previous round. The cut on Fulton's forehead is reopened. After a Dempsey hook and a big left, Fulton is able to land another blow, reopening the cut above Dempsey's eye. As the bell sounds for the halfway point of the bout, the unofficial card has Dempsey well ahead, 50-44.

Round six, Fulton changes tactics and tries to be more aggressive. Dempsey is worried about the cut over the eye, but Dempsey counters Fulton with a couple of strong uppercuts. Dempsey follows with a jab but then is on the receiving end of a Dempsey uppercut. A straight right by Dempsey slashes open the cut on Fulton's forehead, and this time the bleeding is so severe the bout is not allowed to continue.

Dempsey by TKO 6 (on cut). Dempsey now has won 17 straight, all by KO, and his 742 pp total places him 12th in the latest HW rankings. A huge win for Dempsey.

[JCWeb]

Sept. 9, 1916 -- Los Angeles, CA: The "Fighting Marine," Gene Tunney, gets another furlough to take on LH trial horse Art Herbert in his 6th pro bout. Tunney, who is one of the top LH prospects with five KO wins in his previous five bouts, steps up to Pre-Prime condition to take on Herbert, who sports a 2-5 record including one win over Chuck Wiggins, another LH prospect, so he may not be a pushover for Gene.

Round one, Tunney starts out firing right away, landing a clean right but Herbert responds with a shot of his own. This only serves to energize Tunney further, and he shoots back with a right, an uppercut, following up with a barrage including a hard hook, a cross, and another right. Toward the end of the round, these punches begin to take their toll on Herbert, and a hard uppercut from Tunney staggers a helpless Herbert, who is not longer able to fend for himself as the ref waves off the fight. TKO for Tunney at 2:47 of round one.

Tunney moves to 6-0 (all 6 by KO), and 411 pp, and he is due for another bout in a month or so.

[JCWeb]

Back to the historical perspective, looking at the LW division.

Here's the lineal history for the division's World Champs:

Jack McAuliffe 1888-97
Joe Gans 1897, 1898-1905
Frank Erne 1897-98
George Lavigne 1898
Jack Blackburn 1905-08, 1911-12, 1913-14, 1914-15
Jem Driscoll 1908-09, 1910-11, 1914
Battling Nelson 1909-10
Young Erne 1911
Freddie Welsh 1912-13
Willie Ritchie 1913, 1915-

Now, this list was accurate as of the start of the "current" year, 1916, but I can let the cat out of the bag a bit and say that 1916 saw Benny Leonard emerge as the 11th WBA champion in the history of the division. McAuliffe and Gans both had long runs, and it seems like Leonard may be set for a similar long run as Champ (right now he is still unbeaten, the only unbeaten WBA champ in some time). Blackburn and Driscoll have held the belt on multiple occasions, indicating they may have been the best of a very fine group of LWs in the time period between Gans and Leonard. (Gans, of course, went on to capture the WW title as well.)

All-Time Records

Most Bouts

Jewey Cooke 91
Frank Erne, Joe Gans 76
Battling Nelson 75
George Lavigne 74

Active: Young Erne 68 Blackburn 65 Driscoll 63 Kid Black 62

Most Wins

Jewey Cooke 65
Joe Gans 62
Battling Nelson 58
Jack McAuliffe 57
Jack Blackburn 56

Active: Blackburn 56 Driscoll 54 Young Erne 41 Kid Black 34

Most KO Wins

Jack McAuliffe 49
Joe Gans 36
George Lavigne 34
Frank Erne, Jem Driscoll 30

Active: Driscoll 30 Knockout Brown, Matty Baldwin 21 Blackburn, Hyland 19

Consecutive Wins

Jack McAuliffe 45
Benny Leonard 25
Joe Gans 22
Lockport Jimmy Duffy 18
Charley White 17

Active: Leonard 25 Duffy 18 White 17 de Ponthieu, Herb McCoy 16

Consecutive KOs

Jack McAuliffe 21
Joe Gans 15
Jem Driscoll 12
Frank Erne, George Lavigne 9

Active: Driscoll 12 Rocky Kansas, Matty Baldwin 8


Coming up, "Champs or Chumps" for the LW division ...

[JCWeb]

Here's the list of undisputed LW World Champs and how they fared as WBA champs (or not) in my Uni.

Jack McAuliffe RL: 1886 Uni: Aug. 1888
George (Kid) Lavigne RL: Aug. 1896 Uni: Jan. 1898
Frank Erne RL: Jul. 1899 Uni: Dec. 1897
Joe Gans RL: May 1902 Uni: Sep. 1897
Battling Nelson RL: July 1908 Uni: Aug. 1909
Ad Wolgast RL: Feb. 1910 Uni: Not Yet
Willie Ritchie RL: Nov. 1912 Uni: Jun. 1915
Freddie Welsh RL: Jul. 1914 Uni: Jan. 1912
Benny Leonard RL: May 1917 Uni: Feb. 1916
Rocky Kansas RL: Dec. 1925 Uni: Not Yet

So far, all RL champs have emerged as WBA champs with the exception of two guys, Wolgast and Kansas, who are still in their Prime. However, this list of "undisputed" champs excludes Jimmy Britt, a claimant to the LW title in 1904, who was rated a "3" in the game and, at least in my Uni, did not even emerge as a top contender for the title nor, for that matter, a contender for the lesser NABF and USBA titles. So, Britt would be one of my leading candidates (along with HW Marvin Hart) for "Chump" based on performance in my Uni. More recently, Wolgast and Kansas have yet to crack the Top 10 in the rankings, although that could change as more of the older LWs move to Post-Prime and End career stages. Kansas, in particular, may have a legitimate title shot even though it appears as if Leonard may be set for a very long run as unbeaten king of the division.

Another observation concerns several fighters who were strong LW champs who did not emerge as champs IRL. Foremost among these is Jack Blackburn, whose TB rankings suggest he should, as he has been in my Uni, a Champ on multiple occasions. Brit Jem Driscoll has also risen to the top of the LW ranks, as there appears to have been a window of opportunity from the time Gans moved up to WW (circa 1905 in my Uni) until 1916, when Leonard emerged as Champ. One fighter who for a long time appeared to be doomed to failure was perennial contender and the initial European champ, Battling Nelson, who finally won the WBA crown in something like his fifth or sixth try.

[Lee]

Great to see Dempsey pass his first big test, some anxious moments with the Cut though. Any negotiations for a shot at one of the minor titles underway yet?

[JCWeb]

First, to respond to Lee's last post: No, right now the plans for Dempsey are to milk the KO streak as there are plenty of HWs out there without having to mix it up (and risk an undesirable loss) with the likes of Langford, Jeannette, Wills or McVey. So the decision not to rush to a title bout is similar to how I "managed" Benny Leonard, who did emerge as LW champ but only after his 20th bout when he reached Prime career stage.

Now, here is the FW historical retrospective. The WBA Champions:

Torpedo Billy Murphy 1886-87
Fred Johnson 1887-89
Abe Willis 1889
Young Griffo 1889-92, 1895-96, 1897-98, 1902-03
Solly Smith 1892-93, 1898
Jack Skelly 1893, 1894-95
Frank Murphy 1893-94
Johnny Griffin 1894
Ben Jordan 1896-97, 1899-1900
George Dixon 1897, 1898-99
Dave Sullivan 1898, 1900
Harry Lyons 1899, 1900
Young Corbett 1900-01
Oscar Gardner 1901
Aurelio Herrera 1901-02
Brooklyn Tommy Sullivan 1902
Abe Attell 1903-05, 1907-14
Jem Driscoll 1905-06
Terry McGovern 1906-07
Jimmy Walsh 1914-15
Eugene Criqui 1915
Johnny Kilbane 1915-

A total of 22 (!) different WBA titleholders in the FW division. Young Griffo in the early years and Attell more recently have been the two dominant performers. (Attell has recently regained the crown in 1916, another victory over Kilbane!) Many of these guys held the belt for a very short time, indicative of the fact that most of the RL FWs from the early years were fairly evenly matched ratings-wise, except for Attell and perhaps also Griffo. Dixon and McGovern advanced from the BW ranks to claim the FW crown, with the difference being Dixon had also been World BW champ whereas McGovern had failed to capture the BW crown. Driscoll went on to win the LW title in addition to the WBA FW belt.

All-Time Records

Most Bouts

Young Griffo 90
George Dixon 83
Brooklyn Tommy Sullivan 75
Solly Smith 74
Fred Johnson 71

Active: BT Sullivan 75 Abe Attell 68 Owen Moran 63 Cove, Hayes 55

Most Wins

Young Griffo 75
Abe Attell 63
George Dixon 58
Harry Lyons 51
Brooklyn Tommy Sullivan 46

Active: Attell 63 BT Sullivan 46 O Moran 41 Hayes 37

Most KO Wins

Fred Johnson 34
Terry McGovern 33
Benny Soloman, Johnny Griffin, Young Griffo 29

Active: BT Sullivan 25 Attell 24 Hayes 22 Eddie O'Keefe 17

Consecutive Wins

Young Griffo 31
Abe Attell 27
Fred Johnson 21
Harry Lyons 18
Benny Soloman, Eddie O'Keefe 17

Active: Attell 27 E O'Keefe 17 Many 11

Consecutive KO Wins

Frank Murphy 13
Benny Soloman 12
Harry Lyons, George Chaney, Johnny Griffin, Johnny Kilbane 10

Active: Kilbane, Chaney 10 E O'Keefe 8 Attell 7

[JCWeb]

Here's the RL FW champs and how they fared (dates of ascending to the top) in my Uni:

Torpedo Billy Murphy RL: Jan. 1890 Uni: Oct. 1886
Young Griffo RL: Sep. 1890 Uni: Feb. 1889
George Dixon RL: Mar. 1891 Uni: Jun. 1897
Solly Smith RL: Octl 1897 Uni: Sep. 1892
Dave Sullivan RL: Sep. 1898 Uni: Jan. 1898
Terry McGovern RL: Jan. 1900 Uni: Mar. 1906
Young Corbett RL: Nov. 1901 Uni: Oct. 1900
Jimmy Britt RL: Mar. 1904 Uni: NEVER
Abe Attell RL: Feb. 1904 Uni: Nov. 1903
BT Sullivan RL: Oct. 1904 Uni: Apr. 1902
Johnny Kilbane RL: Feb. 1912 Uni: Oct. 1915
Eugene Criqui RL: Jun. 1923 Uni: Jan. 1915
Johnny Dundee RL: Jul. 1923 Uni: Not Yet

Obervations? With quite a few more champions in my Uni than in RL, it makes sense that just about everyone who was a RL FW champion made it to the top in my Uni, and most at a time sooner than IRL --perhaps in part reflective of the fact that World title bouts were held less frequently, particularly in the earlier years, as opposed to the more regular schedule followed in my Uni. Of course, there have been notable exceptions, such as McGovern, who it seemed had to wait forever to finally claim his World belt (the opportunity finally arose once Attell was off the throne for the first period) as well as Kilbane, who also had to wait for someone other than Attell (his nemesis) from whom to claim the belt. Eugene Criqui of course is the standout in the other direction, having an easy time of it, taking the WBA crown in his first try, over eight years ahead of schedule. But, as was the case in real-life, once he won it, he did not keep it for long.

Looking at those few who did not reach the heights, obviously Jimmy Britt once again stands out as the "real" Chump, although it should be noted that, in my Uni, he fought strictly as a LW (where he failed miserably). It really is too soon to tell for Johnny Dundee ("the Scotch Wop"), but I expect that, once Attell is past his prime, the opportunity for Dundee (and others as well) will be there. Still plenty of time for that to happen.

Overall, though, while the FW division ranks were fairly crowded with many strong contenders in the early years, more recently it has been Abe and the lesser lights, plus there is no sure-fire future champ to point to, as is the case with many of the other divisions (Dempsey in the HW, McTigue in LH, Greb in MW, for example).

[JCWeb]

Continuing with the last of the divisional retrospectives (FLY division is too new for a retrospective), here are the BW WBA Champs:

Johnny Murphy 1888-89
George Dixon 1889-92
Nunc Wallace 1892-95
Cal McCarthy 1895-97
Jimmy Barry 1897-1901
Harry Harris 1901-08, 1909, 1911, 1911-12
Harry Forbes 1908
Biz Mackey 1908
Johnny Coulon 1908-09, 1909-10, 1912-15
Philadelphia Pal Moore 1910-11
Kid Murphy 1911
Frankie Burns 1912
Al Delmont 1915-

Only 13 different champs, unusual in that in this division there were fewer total World Champs than IRL, also alot more consistency (not too much back and forth), particularly in the earlier years with Barry and Harris who held the title for a long time. Only Harris and Coulon thus far have bucked the trend and regained the belt after losing it, remarkable because Harris was well past his Prime in his later championship runs. One big disappointment was the failure of "Terrible Terry" McGovern to succeed at the BW level, something I attribute to the fact that Barry remained past the time period where he retired in real life. On the other hand, there have been a few surprise champs, guys like Mackey, Murphy and Burns who did not make it to the top IRL.

All-Time Records

Total Bouts

Nunc Wallace 74
Phil McGovern 68
Joe Bowker, Harry Forbes, Harry Harris, Thomas Palmer 66

Active: Bowker 66 Mackey 65 Digger Stanley 62 Al Delmont 61

Wins

Nunc Wallace and Jimmy Barry 55
Harry Harris 51
Al Delmont 43
Johnny Murphy, Walter Croot, Joe Bowker, Biz Mackey 39

Active: Delmont 43 Mackey, Bowker 39 Coulon, Kid Murphy 37

KO Wins

Jimmy Barry 40
Nunc Wallace 39
Harry Harris 32
Jimmy Murphy 30
Cal McCarthy 29

Active: Charles Ledoux, Kid Murphy 24 Bowker 20 Delmont, Coulon 17

Consecutive Wins

Jimmy Barry 41
Cal McCarthy, Nunc Wallace 17
Kid Williams, Phila Pal Moore 16

Active: Phila Pal Moore, Kid Williams 16 Jack Wolfe, Ledoux 15

Consecutive KOs

Charles Ledoux 13
Nunc Wallace, Jimmy Barry 12
Cal McCarthy, Harry Harris 10

Active: Ledoux 13 Coulon, Pete Herman, Kid Murphy 9

Extraordinary win streak by Barry in the early years, made possible by the fact that the competition was not as strong back then as it is now.

[JCWeb]

Now, a comparison of the above list to the RL champs and the year(s) they did or did not reach the top in my Uni:

George Dixon RL: Jun. 1890 Uni: Jun. 1889
Jimmy Barry RL: Sep. 1894 Uni: Feb 1897
Terry McGovern RL: Sep. 1899 Uni: NEVER
Harry Harris RL: Mar. 1901 Uni: Jul. 1901
Harry Forbes RL: Jan. 1902 Uni: Jan. 1908
Frankie Neil RL: Aug. 1903 Uni: NEVER
Joe Bowker RL: Oct. 1904 Uni: NOT YET
Jimmy Walsh RL: Oct. 1905 Uni: FW Division Only
Johnny Coulon RL: Feb. 1911 Uni: Dec. 1908
Kid Williams RL: Jan. 1914 Uni: NOT YET
Johnny Ertle RL: Sep. 1915 Uni: TOO SOON
Pete Herman RL: Jan. 1917 Uni: TOO SOON
Joe Lynch RL: Dec. 1920 Uni: TOO SOON
Abe Goldstein RL: Mar. 1924 Uni: TOO SOON

Note that this list does not include some title claimants (guys like Nunc Wallace and Frankie Conley) as well as guys like Tommy Kelly, Hughey Boyle and Chappie Moran who were identified as early champions in the late 1880s. It took awhile for Barry to capture the belt, and he remained as WBA champion longer than IRL. Harris succeeded to the title about the same time as in IRL, and Forbes barely made it while Neil and Bowker did not (Bowker is in the late stages of his career and unlikely to mount a serious title challenge). There is still time for Kid Williams to ascend to the WBA throne, and Pete Herman (like Williams) is also a future champ. Too soon to tell about guys like Ertle, Lynch and Abe Goldstein. One interesting aspect has been the decline of the British BW contingent, as guys like Croot, Plimmer, Palmer, and more recently, Stanley and Bowker, have proved less successful than their American counterparts. In fact, it has been 20 years of "all American" champs in this division since Nunc Wallace lost the belt back in 1895.