OOTP 7 Development update - Page 11

Malleus Dei · 02-05-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCity

Then again, as long as I can turn off what I want, I'm not bothered that the options are there.

Amen, as long as the core game works and we can turn off the bells and whistles, the bells and whistles are no problem.

treedom · 02-05-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

I just don't really get why people would want to see complex financials in a baseball sim. Ticket pricing? Concessions? Marketing? Blech. If I wanted to mess around with those things in my spare time, I'd get a second job!

Ditto.

Bald Eagles · 02-05-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

We think it's boring, trivial, and should be skippable?

Exactly why it needs to be addressed. So it isn't so boring.

Maximus · 02-05-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

Markus, if it going to be impossible to import past careers/leagues will we at least have the option to edit all of the players attributes, stats and ratings - basically editing every player in the league so that leagues can continue? It may take a week or so to do but at least a leagues history can continue.

just going to bump this and hopefully Markus will reply as this is really important to me.

crazyhorsejohnny · 02-05-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

We think it's boring, trivial, and should be skippable?

Not if it's done properly and with more detail. In MLB, every spring training some teams have as much as 5 to7 spots available on their roster. It would be nice if you could play about 15 to 20 ST games. Players could get injured even. In my opinion it would a little bit more fun to a already great game. I mean you guys always strive for historical accuracy well ST happens every year in MLB so why not keep it in the game but make it more realistic and detailed. For me it would enhance the game even more. I'd prefer this to the dreaded H2H.

Malleus Dei · 02-05-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Eagles

So it isn't so boring.

You can't make it not boring to some of us.

GForce · 02-05-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

Not if it's done properly and with more detail. In MLB, every spring training some teams have as much as 5 to7 spots available on their roster. It would be nice if you could play about 15 to 20 ST games. Players could get injured even. In my opinion it would a little bit more fun to a already great game. I mean you guys always strive for historical accuracy well ST happens every year in MLB so why not keep it in the game but make it more realistic and detailed. For me it would enhance the game even more. I'd prefer this to the dreaded H2H.

Give that man a prize.

GH

Kemp · 02-05-2005, 07:21 PM

Sudden thought. Will OOTP7 support reduced rosters? I was just "talking" about this in another thread and figured I should ask if this will be supported.

Malleus Dei · 02-05-2005, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

Not if it's done properly and with more detail.

However it was done it would still bore me to tears, and I won't be alone in that. If you can talk Markus into it, great, as long as the core game works and there's a button to turn ST off.

ihatenames · 02-05-2005, 09:57 PM

I wouldn't mind some sort of simulated stats to look at after the completion of spring training at the very least. Similar to what pure sim does. However, put me in the camp that wants a playable spring training.

seth70liz76 · 02-05-2005, 10:13 PM

How would the game support something like the Federal League? Would it be (if I've read closely enough) you'd have your standard MLB with 2 sub-leagues, and create another league with the FL as the sub-league--just as you would with the Japanese League or other international league?

Davey Eckstein · 02-05-2005, 10:46 PM

What about more player personality? More than just team loyalty and desire for winner. I'd like to see maybe an attidue or hustle category. Also more than just three types of ranking. A wider range would be nice.

crazyhorsejohnny · 02-05-2005, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

However it was done it would still bore me to tears, and I won't be alone in that. If you can talk Markus into it, great, as long as the core game works and there's a button to turn ST off.

Unlike many of you, I play out all my games. For me it's more fun and I get to know the players better. Maybe guys who simulate seasons at a time ST is useless. I don't know but for me it would add a lot.

Doesn't the core game work now? Hasn't it not worked fine everytime Markus has added something new to the game? Sure there's always glitches but they do get cleared up (most of them anyway).
But like you said a on/off button would make everybody happy. Even you!

P.S. : I bet you though I'm not alone in not caring about H2H.

NCBeachBum · 02-06-2005, 12:26 AM

I'm actually amazed noone has asked this yet...... Will V7 be able to support 2 way players being able to pitch and pinch hit and back up some positions?

Malleus Dei · 02-06-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

Unlike many of you, I play out all my games. For me it's more fun and I get to know the players better. Maybe guys who simulate seasons at a time ST is useless. I don't know but for me it would add a lot.

I play out all my games, too, but I have OOTP to play out regular seasons, not to do training.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

Doesn't the core game work now?

The new OOTP7 core game certainly doesn't, and it needs to be working before the new bells and whistles are added.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

Hasn't it not worked fine everytime Markus has added something new to the game?

What went before is not a useful indicator; OOTP7 is something new, a complete rewrite. That makes this particular transition different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

But like you said a on/off button would make everybody happy. Even you!

Any bell and/or whistle that comes with an off button is fine by me as long as the core game isn't impacted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

P.S. : I bet you though I'm not alone in not caring about H2H.

I don't care about H2H either, but lots of folks apparently do. I'm the same way about it as I am about everything else - sure, if you can talk Markus into it, as long as it doesn't affect the core game and I don't have to do it.

BaseballMan · 02-06-2005, 12:29 AM

Well i use the cancel option for st mainly because i didnt like the computer trying to turn a Tony Gwynn into a Barry Bonds or a Cecil Fielder into a Rickey Henderson. I havent used it in awhile but it always seemed to try to help a player in a category that the player just didnt have the talent while neglecting his best talent. So a good contact hitter would gain power while his contact whet down. And no matter how much spring training a player has there are limits to what a player can d do. A player may have a freak season like a Brady Anderson but it doesnt continue . And its usually because of the league as a whole and not st.
Dont get me wrong i would like st but right now i think it needs to be improved.
When it becomes something were players must use to stay in shape and maintain their talents but yet not go overboard in categories they just dont have the talent for then i might use it.
Thats not to say there shouldnt be seasons that players may have a bad season because of a poor st. I mean i dont think Babe Ruth should automatically maintain his power and hit 60 hr if he holds out and shows up late to st and barely plays in 3 st games. I could see him starting off slow and maybe end up with only 25-30 homers that year but i cant see him stealing 60 bases even if he has his best st ever.

But it would be a little bit more interesting to have players holding out and you have to judge whther a player is needs more time to recover from an injury and you can work on your lineups.
I think st would probably work better in fictional lleagues using scouts because that would be the time you could try out that gem a scout has raved about. Because in historical leagues you still dont know for sure what player will be a gem but you still know a little bit more than not knowing anything as you do with a fictional player. I think it will give a boost to online fictional leagues as owners try to see what a player can and cant do during st and make adjustments during st instead of just simming st and being told this player improved or didnt improve.

But i think their would have to be limits so an owner wouldnt take advantage of the game.
What i mean is a player like Babe Ruth should have the talent and potential to improve his power from 3-10 when he is young but once he gets to 10 and is prime he should be only able to maintain that talent or lose it. He shouldnt start having 150 hr seasons.
On the other hand a player like Cecil Fielder should have a limit of 1-2 on stealing ability and if the stars are aligned and Fiielder improves every year by 2 in stealing he should still only end up with at the most maybe 3 stolen bases for his best year in that category.

Finally i would not like to see a good or bad st will guarantee a good or bad season for a player. I think it should be a good indication of what a year a player might have but there should still be no guarantees.

NCBeachBum · 02-06-2005, 12:37 AM

You just hit the nail on the head for me, BaseballMan.... I would continue to hit the cancel button for ST on all my historical leagues, but I wouldn't mind having the option of playing it out for a fictional league at all.

crazyhorsejohnny · 02-06-2005, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I play out all my games, too, but I have OOTP to play out regular seasons, not to do training.

So I guess you don't play the playoffs!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

The new OOTP7 core game certainly doesn't, and it needs to be working before the new bells and whistles are added.

I wouldn't consider an improved ST as new bells & whistles. It is already in the the game. H2H well that's different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

What went before is not a useful indicator; OOTP7 is something new, a complete rewrite. That makes this particular transition different.

I'm sure everything would be tested fully before release, just like previous versions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Any bell and/or whistle that comes with an off button is fine by me as long as the core game isn't impacted.

Core game? What do you mean? Balls & Strikes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I don't care about H2H either, but lots of folks apparently do. I'm the same way about it as I am about everything else - sure, if you can talk Markus into it, as long as it doesn't affect the core game and I don't have to do it.

I don't want to talk Markus into anything. I'm sure if a suggestion improves OOTP he'll consider it.

Malleus Dei · 02-06-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorsejohnny

So I guess you don't play the playoffs!

I do when I make them.

Bear in mind that I play with everything turned off except ability ratings and that I have to do performance scouting, which makes for a more difficult game.

Le Grande Orange · 02-06-2005, 02:28 AM

With regards to spring training, this comment Markus made about the stats tracked in the game back in the first OOTP7 development in December:

New splits include by game type (spring training/playoffs/regular season) ...

Note the bolded part. Apparently, there are going to be at least stats generated for the spring training period. Whether that means actual spring training games which can be played and/or simmed is anyone's guess. I personally wouldn't mind seeing spring training games so I could try out players. It'd be a nice addition though I don't think I'd use it all the time.

In any case, in preparation for the possibility of spring training games, I've acquired quite a number of the real MLB exhibition schedules from years past - just about every season from 1937-1993. It's only a matter of getting them typed into files the game could import (easier said than done of course).

As to the financials, on the one hand I want things to be relatively clean and simple, and yet I wouldn't mind seeing more detail either. The thing I really want to try are reserve clause era financials, that is, no free agency but you still have to manage the finances of your team. This would not be as easy as it might seem at first glance, particularly if you add in independent minor leagues and the possibility of players becoming hold-outs when dissatisfied over a contract offer.

The other thing I'd really like to try is running a league where the only income is from attendance. No broadcasting money, no merchandizing, just attendance revenue and nothing else. In other words, just like baseball's earlier days. It should also include the system whereby the road team gets a cut of the attendance, which is how it's always been done. Ideally, this figure would be customizable to see what kind of effects different percentages would have. In baseball, the visiting team only collects around 20% of the gate; in the NFL, the visiting team gets 40%. It'd be great to try out these different approaches to splitting the attendance in a league where the only income is from attendance.

02-05-2005, 09:57 PM	#210
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,534	I wouldn't mind some sort of simulated stats to look at after the completion of spring training at the very least. Similar to what pure sim does. However, put me in the camp that wants a playable spring training. __________________ New Album coming soon!

02-05-2005, 10:13 PM	#211
seth70liz76 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,634	How would the game support something like the Federal League? Would it be (if I've read closely enough) you'd have your standard MLB with 2 sub-leagues, and create another league with the FL as the sub-league--just as you would with the Japanese League or other international league? __________________ It was a mistake to come back.

02-06-2005, 12:29 AM	#216
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,622	Well i use the cancel option for st mainly because i didnt like the computer trying to turn a Tony Gwynn into a Barry Bonds or a Cecil Fielder into a Rickey Henderson. I havent used it in awhile but it always seemed to try to help a player in a category that the player just didnt have the talent while neglecting his best talent. So a good contact hitter would gain power while his contact whet down. And no matter how much spring training a player has there are limits to what a player can d do. A player may have a freak season like a Brady Anderson but it doesnt continue . And its usually because of the league as a whole and not st. Dont get me wrong i would like st but right now i think it needs to be improved. When it becomes something were players must use to stay in shape and maintain their talents but yet not go overboard in categories they just dont have the talent for then i might use it. Thats not to say there shouldnt be seasons that players may have a bad season because of a poor st. I mean i dont think Babe Ruth should automatically maintain his power and hit 60 hr if he holds out and shows up late to st and barely plays in 3 st games. I could see him starting off slow and maybe end up with only 25-30 homers that year but i cant see him stealing 60 bases even if he has his best st ever. But it would be a little bit more interesting to have players holding out and you have to judge whther a player is needs more time to recover from an injury and you can work on your lineups. I think st would probably work better in fictional lleagues using scouts because that would be the time you could try out that gem a scout has raved about. Because in historical leagues you still dont know for sure what player will be a gem but you still know a little bit more than not knowing anything as you do with a fictional player. I think it will give a boost to online fictional leagues as owners try to see what a player can and cant do during st and make adjustments during st instead of just simming st and being told this player improved or didnt improve. But i think their would have to be limits so an owner wouldnt take advantage of the game. What i mean is a player like Babe Ruth should have the talent and potential to improve his power from 3-10 when he is young but once he gets to 10 and is prime he should be only able to maintain that talent or lose it. He shouldnt start having 150 hr seasons. On the other hand a player like Cecil Fielder should have a limit of 1-2 on stealing ability and if the stars are aligned and Fiielder improves every year by 2 in stealing he should still only end up with at the most maybe 3 stolen bases for his best year in that category. Finally i would not like to see a good or bad st will guarantee a good or bad season for a player. I think it should be a good indication of what a year a player might have but there should still be no guarantees. Last edited by BaseballMan; 02-06-2005 at 02:48 PM.

02-05-2005, 07:21 PM	#208
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,181	Sudden thought. Will OOTP7 support reduced rosters? I was just "talking" about this in another thread and figured I should ask if this will be supported.

02-05-2005, 10:46 PM	#212
Davey Eckstein Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Laundry Barn Favorite food: Bran flakes. Posts: 1,283	What about more player personality? More than just team loyalty and desire for winner. I'd like to see maybe an attidue or hustle category. Also more than just three types of ranking. A wider range would be nice.

02-06-2005, 12:26 AM	#214
NCBeachBum All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 1,049	I'm actually amazed noone has asked this yet...... Will V7 be able to support 2 way players being able to pitch and pinch hit and back up some positions?

02-06-2005, 12:37 AM	#217
NCBeachBum All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 1,049	You just hit the nail on the head for me, BaseballMan.... I would continue to hit the cancel button for ST on all my historical leagues, but I wouldn't mind having the option of playing it out for a fictional league at all.

02-06-2005, 02:28 AM	#220
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	With regards to spring training, this comment Markus made about the stats tracked in the game back in the first OOTP7 development in December: New splits include by game type (spring training/playoffs/regular season) ... Note the bolded part. Apparently, there are going to be at least stats generated for the spring training period. Whether that means actual spring training games which can be played and/or simmed is anyone's guess. I personally wouldn't mind seeing spring training games so I could try out players. It'd be a nice addition though I don't think I'd use it all the time. In any case, in preparation for the possibility of spring training games, I've acquired quite a number of the real MLB exhibition schedules from years past - just about every season from 1937-1993. It's only a matter of getting them typed into files the game could import (easier said than done of course). As to the financials, on the one hand I want things to be relatively clean and simple, and yet I wouldn't mind seeing more detail either. The thing I really want to try are reserve clause era financials, that is, no free agency but you still have to manage the finances of your team. This would not be as easy as it might seem at first glance, particularly if you add in independent minor leagues and the possibility of players becoming hold-outs when dissatisfied over a contract offer. The other thing I'd really like to try is running a league where the only income is from attendance. No broadcasting money, no merchandizing, just attendance revenue and nothing else. In other words, just like baseball's earlier days. It should also include the system whereby the road team gets a cut of the attendance, which is how it's always been done. Ideally, this figure would be customizable to see what kind of effects different percentages would have. In baseball, the visiting team only collects around 20% of the gate; in the NFL, the visiting team gets 40%. It'd be great to try out these different approaches to splitting the attendance in a league where the only income is from attendance.