Historical database issues go here!

[Pelican]

Not sure I understand the status of the Federal League in OOTP [22]. In my simulation, I was able to find all the players and to create the teams. (I added a bunch of players who nearly signed, or who signed and got cold feet, or negotiated, so the level of talent is better, really equivalent to MLB overall. There were good and bad teams in the AL, NL, and FL.). I had to deal with the FL being considered a minor league; but since there were no affiliations with MLB clubs, there was no player movement (except raids and free agent signings, of course). But then I was playing as Commissioner, in control of all 24 teams, for fear that the AI would yield a different result. Without getting into a protracted argument on the quality of play (AAAA before my additional roster moves, IMHO), FL was an independent league, so it would make sense to put it on a par with the AL and NL, even if the level of play wasn’t there. I would use the same rationale for the UA, which did have some quality players, and one really good team (St. Louis); but no stability. (It also had the Wilmington Quicksteps, who played - briefly - within sight of my current home. Their last home game had zero paid spectators….). Not minor leagues in the sense of being feeders to MLB. I suppose you could consider them like independent leagues today, except their players were not available to MLB to purchase.

[actionjackson]

Just imported him into my RD. I always debut guys a year early because that's the way the game does it for all players in RD. He's entered at 20, and will be 21 in his debut season. Major caveat: I may have corrected his birthdate as I've been cleaning up my Master file, and uploading it into the database, but what I've got, is what should be happening.

[actionjackson]

Just gonna check the Master that I haven't messed around with, and see if I can find the problem. Back in a while with your answer. Could be a minute, could be an hour or two.

[actionjackson]

There's your culprit. Birthdate needs to be reset like mine is. Original has February 26, 1856 as his birthday, so he would indeed be 16. I must've changed his in my DB to May 5, 1870 when I noticed the lack of a birthday.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

There's your culprit. Birthdate needs to be reset like mine is. Original has February 26, 1856 as his birthday, so he would indeed be 16. I must've changed his in my DB to May 5, 1870 when I noticed the lack of a birthday.

So "you" are the culprit :P If set to 1849 you are good to go. He was 6 years old as per the 1st of June, 1855 when the Census checker came through Brooklyn. Now, go get yourself a new fg for him as one's now posted Don't do 1870 - he'd be two years old on the mound! A great Disney movie premise but unlikely!

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Not sure I understand the status of the Federal League in OOTP [22]. In my simulation, I was able to find all the players and to create the teams. (I added a bunch of players who nearly signed, or who signed and got cold feet, or negotiated, so the level of talent is better, really equivalent to MLB overall. There were good and bad teams in the AL, NL, and FL.). I had to deal with the FL being considered a minor league; but since there were no affiliations with MLB clubs, there was no player movement (except raids and free agent signings, of course). But then I was playing as Commissioner, in control of all 24 teams, for fear that the AI would yield a different result. Without getting into a protracted argument on the quality of play (AAAA before my additional roster moves, IMHO), FL was an independent league, so it would make sense to put it on a par with the AL and NL, even if the level of play wasn’t there. I would use the same rationale for the UA, which did have some quality players, and one really good team (St. Louis); but no stability. (It also had the Wilmington Quicksteps, who played - briefly - within sight of my current home. Their last home game had zero paid spectators….). Not minor leagues in the sense of being feeders to MLB. I suppose you could consider them like independent leagues today, except their players were not available to MLB to purchase.

Just my opinion, but the stats for the Federal League from the MiLB DB aren't up to snuff. After seeing them, I'll be doing my own.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

So "you" are the culprit :P If set to 1849 you are good to go. He was 6 years old as per the 1st of June, 1855 when the Census checker came through Brooklyn. Now, go get yourself a new fg for him as one's now posted Don't do 1870 - he'd be two years old on the mound! A great Disney movie premise but unlikely!

Oye. 1850. I meant 1850, 'cause that's what I have in my Master file for my game.

[MightyVotto]

I've simmed through a few historical replays from 1901 - today. Using historical transactions and lineups. Sam "Sad Sam" Gray never gets assigned as a starter as he should be for the Philadelphia A's in the mid-to-late 1920s. He made 19 starts in 1924 and 28 in 1925. The game uses him exclusively as a reliever only. There must be a bug with his ID or such. I haven't noticed this much with anyone else of significance yet.

Thanks!

[ra24mpa]

These are mostly from a historical league beginning in the year 2000 with maybe a couple from 1996. I haven't had a chance to go through every player yet, but I wanted to make sure this had a chance to be corrected before beta-testing begins. And I apologize for how terrible I have this formatted below, but it's still an improvement over how I have this in my notes.

Mark Clark clarkma01 is missing his milb pitching stats, but...

Phil Clark clarkph02 clark-003phi imports with Mark Clark's clarkma01 clark-004mar milb pitching stats

Jose Rodriguez rodrig019jos should be linked with rodrijo04
According to bbref, there is no rodrijo02, which is why the Jose Rodriguez who starts in the stl cardinals system and who made it to the show in 2000 has no MLB stats attached in the historical stats tab.
The other Jose Rodriguez rodrijo04 rodrig003mig has JR's MLB stats plus the one line of MiLB stats from 1994 of an Oakland farmhand named Miguel Rodriguez.

There are two Ramon Ortizes (same person) created during league creation in 2000, ortiz-001dio is linked with ortizra01 who doesn't exist in the Baseball Reference database, and therefore doesn't have any MLB stats attached to him, and ortizra02 (the one who should be linked with ortiz-001dio) is linked to a Cleveland farmhand from the late 1980s who never made it out of rookie league (ortiz-002ram).

There are two Jeff Williams created during 2000 setup:
willije01 willia003jef
african australian
This (willije01) should be Jerome Williams and linked to willia003jer

willije02 willia003jer
australian
this one willije02 should have willia003jef linked to it
Basically, flip the two milb ids.

Jacque Jones jonesja05 jones-006jac has Jason Jones' milb id jones-001jas which stops the latter from being created during league setup.

George Williams willige03 should have milb id willia003geo, but imported with Jeff Williams' willia004jef id.

Roberto Rivera riverro01 rivera004rob has the milb stats for rivera005rob included in addition to his own for some reason.

Dan Smith smithda07 smith-006dan imported with milb id smith-001rod for some reason.

Taylor Smith smith-001nie and Nestor Smith smith-001nes have their statlines mixed up. One's a pitcher, the other an outfielder, but each has the others year 2000 statline for some reason.

Jeff Wallace wallaje01 should have milb id wallac001jef but imported with wallac003jef

Scott Baker bakersc02 baker-001tim has Brett Baker's milb id baker-001bre

Chris Warren warren001chr and warren001aar have their respective 2000 stat lines messed up

Ricky Gutierrez gutier002ric is accidentally combined with gutieri01 who should have gutier001ric as his minors id. As such, the other one, who should be part of the 1996 rosters, is not in the game.

[LansdowneSt]

Jim Donnelly (donneji01) in OOTP has the birthdate and birth location of the other Jim Donnelly (donneji02). As the Bullpen wiki on bRef indicates, these players are often confused.

Jim Donnelly (donneji01) is also missing some of his later MLB years/stats.

The other Jim Donnelly (donneji02) doesn't import into the game so may be missing completely from the OOTP database.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...onneji01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...onneji02.shtml

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Jim Donnelly (donneji01) in OOTP has the birthdate and birth location of the other Jim Donnelly (donneji02). As the Bullpen wiki on bRef indicates, these players are often confused.

Jim Donnelly (donneji01) is also missing some of his later MLB years/stats.

The other Jim Donnelly (donneji02) doesn't import into the game so may be missing completely from the OOTP database.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...onneji01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...onneji02.shtml

Those Donnelly lads are a mischievous bunch aren't they? Pete Donnelly only played in 1871 IRL. The game runs him from 1871 through 1874, with stats and everything. I think this is a leftover from before BB-Ref or SABR caught up to it, and it was never put right in our historical_database.odb file.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by ra24mpa

These are mostly from a historical league beginning in the year 2000 with maybe a couple from 1996. I haven't had a chance to go through every player yet, but I wanted to make sure this had a chance to be corrected before beta-testing begins. And I apologize for how terrible I have this formatted below, but it's still an improvement over how I have this in my notes.

Mark Clark clarkma01 is missing his milb pitching stats, but...

Phil Clark clarkph02 clark-003phi imports with Mark Clark's clarkma01 clark-004mar milb pitching stats

Jose Rodriguez rodrig019jos should be linked with rodrijo04
According to bbref, there is no rodrijo02, which is why the Jose Rodriguez who starts in the stl cardinals system and who made it to the show in 2000 has no MLB stats attached in the historical stats tab.
The other Jose Rodriguez rodrijo04 rodrig003mig has JR's MLB stats plus the one line of MiLB stats from 1994 of an Oakland farmhand named Miguel Rodriguez.

There are two Ramon Ortizes (same person) created during league creation in 2000, ortiz-001dio is linked with ortizra01 who doesn't exist in the Baseball Reference database, and therefore doesn't have any MLB stats attached to him, and ortizra02 (the one who should be linked with ortiz-001dio) is linked to a Cleveland farmhand from the late 1980s who never made it out of rookie league (ortiz-002ram).

There are two Jeff Williams created during 2000 setup:
willije01 willia003jef
african australian
This (willije01) should be Jerome Williams and linked to willia003jer

willije02 willia003jer
australian
this one willije02 should have willia003jef linked to it
Basically, flip the two milb ids.

Jacque Jones jonesja05 jones-006jac has Jason Jones' milb id jones-001jas which stops the latter from being created during league setup.

George Williams willige03 should have milb id willia003geo, but imported with Jeff Williams' willia004jef id.

Roberto Rivera riverro01 rivera004rob has the milb stats for rivera005rob included in addition to his own for some reason.

Dan Smith smithda07 smith-006dan imported with milb id smith-001rod for some reason.

Taylor Smith smith-001nie and Nestor Smith smith-001nes have their statlines mixed up. One's a pitcher, the other an outfielder, but each has the others year 2000 statline for some reason.

Jeff Wallace wallaje01 should have milb id wallac001jef but imported with wallac003jef

Scott Baker bakersc02 baker-001tim has Brett Baker's milb id baker-001bre

Chris Warren warren001chr and warren001aar have their respective 2000 stat lines messed up

Ricky Gutierrez gutier002ric is accidentally combined with gutieri01 who should have gutier001ric as his minors id. As such, the other one, who should be part of the 1996 rosters, is not in the game.

Nice digging ra24mpa. I remember the Jerome/Jeff issue from way back. Can't remember when I reported it, but it's been a while. I wonder if Willie Harris (harriwi02), and Will Harris (harriwi10) are still all tangled up. Hadn't reported the Jason/Jacque Jones snafu yet, but I've noticed that one too.

[actionjackson]

Here's a fun one. Some OF with surnames between Wh and Wi, have blank fields in the FieldingOF.csv file, between 1881 and 1926. I've already found one (Bill Wise - wisebi01), who goes from no OF positions to a CF (In Fielding.csv, he's a LF), when the proper adjustment is made. Adjustments need to be made in the Fielding.csv file as well, of course. I don't think it affects everybody in that range of surnames, but it does affect some. To wit (LF-CF-RF):

1881 Jim Whitney (whitnji01 - should stay at 0-0-15, just needs the zeroes)

1883 Jim Whitney (whitnji01 - should go from 0-40-0 to 0-30-10, add RF in Fielding.csv file)

1884 Jim Whitney (whitnji01 - should go from 0-15-0 to 0-14-1, add RF in Fielding.csv file)

1882 Bill Wise (wisebi01 - should go from 0-0-0 to 0-2-0, change LF to CF in the Fielding.csv file)

1884 Bill Wise (wisebi01 - should go from 0-0-0 to 1-16-26, all 43 games are packed into RF in the Fielding.csv file, so need to re-distribute them to LF and CF as needed)

1886 Bill Wise (wisebi01 - should go from 0-0-0 to 0-0-1, RF needs to be added in Fielding.csv file)

1884 Stump Weidman (wiedmst01 - just needs the zeroes to complete the 0-0-53)

1884 Tug Wilson (wilsotu01 - needs to go from 0-12-0 to 5-6-1, LF, and RF need to be added to Fielding.csv file)

1888 Wild Bill Widner (widnewi01 - needs to go from 0-0-0 to 0-1-2, LF needs to be removed, and CF, and RF need to be added to Fielding.csv file)

1889 Wild Bill Widner (widnewi01 - needs to go from 0-0-0 to 0-0-1, and RF needs to be added to Fielding.csv file)

...More to come when I get around to it. A little over one quarter of the way through. Love the quirks of the bugs. Just a few of them, but they've all got IDs starting with wh, through IDs starting with wi. It happens.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Nice digging ra24mpa. I remember the Jerome/Jeff issue from way back. Can't remember when I reported it, but it's been a while. I wonder if Willie Harris (harriwi02), and Will Harris (harriwi10) are still all tangled up. Hadn't reported the Jason/Jacque Jones snafu yet, but I've noticed that one too.

I've not disentangled any of the tangled id's yet. Perhaps one of the other couple guys who work on the historical db have done some of these that have been reported, but I have my doubts.

We actually have a couple projects in the works that should help with this and other historical db improvements as well, but not sure exactly what the timeframe on any of that might be. It depends on a few factors I'm not yet sure of. But might be more of an OOTP24 thing than an OOTP23 (in a patch). We'll see...

[M's rule]

Originally Posted by MightyVotto

I've simmed through a few historical replays from 1901 - today. Using historical transactions and lineups. Sam "Sad Sam" Gray never gets assigned as a starter as he should be for the Philadelphia A's in the mid-to-late 1920s. He made 19 starts in 1924 and 28 in 1925. The game uses him exclusively as a reliever only. There must be a bug with his ID or such. I haven't noticed this much with anyone else of significance yet.

Thanks!

Yes indeed, it's a bug with his ID. Once upon a time he was known as graydo02, but when his ID was changed to graysa01, that change was not carried through in the lineups and transactions files. I've just finished updating both of those files, but I don't know how to get the new information into OOTP 22---I fear that there's no further chance to update those files by putting out another patch. In case it's still possible, I'm going to send in the new files and ask that they be included.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I've not disentangled any of the tangled id's yet. Perhaps one of the other couple guys who work on the historical db have done some of these that have been reported, but I have my doubts.

We actually have a couple projects in the works that should help with this and other historical db improvements as well, but not sure exactly what the timeframe on any of that might be. It depends on a few factors I'm not yet sure of. But might be more of an OOTP24 thing than an OOTP23 (in a patch). We'll see...

Yeah...These are complicated long standing issues, that have been there for quite a while. Tough to nail them all down. Really tough when you don't see anything wrong in the Master.csv file, but the players with similar IDs are throwing a big party in the various stats files. I wouldn't want to wade through old Bug Report Forums to find ones that have been reported before, but that may be a way. Slooow process for sure.

[actionjackson]

I guess one way that would make it easier to track these vermin is to sort the Batting, Fielding, FieldingOF, and Pitching files by ascending playerID, rather than by ascending season, team, and player ID, like it is by default. It's still a looong process, but that might let us spot, and squish them faster.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I guess one way that would make it easier to track these vermin is to sort the Batting, Fielding, FieldingOF, and Pitching files by ascending playerID, rather than by ascending season, team, and player ID, like it is by default. It's still a looong process, but that might let us spot, and squish them faster.

Up to just before Dan Boone (booneda01) and Danny Boone (booneda02) in the Batting.csv file. Nothing to report yet, aside from what's already been reported. That's a really good sign in my eyes. Much easier organizing by ascending playerIDs, and then putting 02 in the "Find & Replace" box. Might miss any 03s etc, that don't have 01s and 02s in front of them, but I should be able to catch the vast majority. Gettin' into a really decent rhythm with it too. Just wanna squish these bastards.

[actionjackson]

Win Clark (BB-Ref ID: clarkbi01) has no RL Stats. Possible explanation is that he shares his lahman40ID (clarkbi01) with Bill Clarkson (BB-Ref ID: clarkbi02), but Bill does not have any of Win's stats. Noticed while looking for possible entanglements.

[M's rule]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Win Clark (BB-Ref ID: clarkbi01) has no RL Stats. Possible explanation is that he shares his lahman40ID (clarkbi01) with Bill Clarkson (BB-Ref ID: clarkbi02), but Bill does not have any of Win's stats. Noticed while looking for possible entanglements.

OMG, I just discovered this problem too. The fix is to change Bill Clarkson from clarkbi01 to clarkbi02 (his current BBRef ID) and then change Win Clark from clarkwi03 to clarkbi01 (ditto). I've just changed Clarkson's ID in the lineups and transactions files accordingly, as well as the mentions of Win Clark in the transactions file..

The lahman40 IDs are obsolete and all should have been scrubbed a while ago. To the best of my knowledge, these two are the only remaining problems of this sort.