Questionable AI decisions

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I would highly disagree with this paragraph as it pertains to some of the things I posted in this thread such as leaving a pitcher in to bat in the bottom of the 8th and then replacing him to start the top of the ninth or bringing a lefty reliever to face a lefty hitter and then removing him for a righty reliever when another lefty is due up to bat. Certainly several of the examples I posted are simply "questionable" which was why I titled the thread the way I did. I didn't want to imply that there was no question that the things I posted are all examples of places where the AI differs from reality but I did think the ones I posted were at least questionable if not outright unrealistic like the two examples I just highlighted.

I'm glad you're bringing these AI moves to our attention. Some of them can be explained when we take into account the different variables that pertain. For example (and this is a simple one, I know), it might seem strange that the AI pinch hit with a RHB when a RHP is on the mound. But we may discover, if we probed, that the AI had no LHBs available to PH. Or that the only LHB was the lone backup catcher. So, what looks out of place from a distance may make more sense when we examine the situation up close.

That said, I do agree that some AI decisions simply do not make sense. The failure to PH for the pitcher in the previous half-inning before replacing him in the top half is one of them. As long as there was a viable PH option available, the AI should have known enough to use it. I have seen the same thing happen in the game. So, Dyzalot, your experience is not unique.

I have a running thread (and PT) in the beta forum regarding late-inning AI. It might be hard to get the AI coded right for this part of a game, but it is important. Poor AI can impair the AI's ability to win a ballgame. One example that comes to mind is when the AI uses 3 or 4 pitchers in an inning, burning through its bullpen. It really irks me when the AI replaces a RHP after one batter with another RHP for no apparent reason. Try as I might, I simply cannot find anything to explain such a move.

It helps to remember that the AI is always a work in progress. Hopefully, our input, even if we sometimes have to withdraw our complaints, will help make it better.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by endgame

You mistakenly read that as directed at and related to the link and/or to you. It was directed at the specific league style and structure of the original poster. We can make all the claims we want about how we desire something to work, but if we want to make strides to get there, we first have to know what it expected from the uniqueness of a given league environment, particularly if it's a fictionalized outlier mimicking aspects of RL. Once you know what that specific league is expected to do, within the game's framework, you either 1) modify settings toward achieving your ends or 2) identify specific drawbacks regarding functionality and either request they be addressed or live with them. All after definitive findings through numerous seasons with the same structure and settings.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I am the OP for this thread.

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I'm glad you're bringing these AI moves to our attention. Some of them can be explained when we take into account the different variables that pertain. For example (and this is a simple one, I know), it might seem strange that the AI pinch hit with a RHB when a RHP is on the mound. But we may discover, if we probed, that the AI had no LHBs available to PH. Or that the only LHB was the lone backup catcher. So, what looks out of place from a distance may make more sense when we examine the situation up close.

Note that none of the examples in this thread are of me or anyone complaining about the AI using a RHB to pinch hit against a RHP. That is certainly a subjective evaluation and real life MLB managers do not always pinch hit with a lefty against a righty or vice versa even when the option is available to them.

It helps to remember that the AI is always a work in progress. Hopefully, our input, even if we sometimes have to withdraw our complaints, will help make it better.

I agree with that. However, the reason I made this thread is because when I brought these situations up in the past I was almost always shot down by regular, long time members of the forum stating that I must be wrong about what I was seeing because they never saw such things in all of their years of playing. So I figured I'd start this thread and post screen shots to prove I wasn't just trying to troll the community. Even after doing so I have seen responses from some saying they have never seen the things I have posted and that maybe I am actually playing out the games and making those moves myself and then posting it as if the AI was doing it. So excuse me if I get a bit defensive about this thread.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I have no idea what you are talking about. I am the OP for this thread.

You're right about that. Got my thinking crossed with your participation in the Young Major League Players Collapsing thread. Apologies.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by endgame

You're right about that. Got my thinking crossed with your participation in the Young Major League Players Collapsing thread. Apologies.

Ah ok. Makes more sense now.

[Dyzalot]

One of the strangest pinch hitting decisions I've ever seen from the AI.

[endgame]

That's an odd one on the surface, I agree. How do their ratings vs RHP compare? I ask because I'm curious, of course, but also because I just ran across a player in one of my own games night before last, a right-handed batter, who was actually better vs RHP than LHP by a strangely fair margin. I'd wondered why they pulled him for a PH.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by endgame

That's an odd one on the surface, I agree. How do their ratings vs RHP compare? I ask because I'm curious, of course, but also because I just ran across a player in one of my own games night before last, a right-handed batter, who was actually better vs RHP than LHP by a strangely fair margin. I'd wondered why they pulled him for a PH.

Buxton is the reigning MVP and my best defensive CF in a game where we lead by 7 so I doubt an ML manager would ever PH in that spot however, just for the sake of the argument.

[David Watts]

Well, you lead 10-3. Bruxton is rated as fragile. Maybe your manager did you a favor.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Well, you lead 10-3. Bruxton is rated as fragile. Maybe your manager did you a favor.

It is game 4 of the LCS. I don't care how fragile someone is, they aren't making that move. I mean because of the score it didn't really mean much but I would have been pissed if they caught up because a few balls hit to center dropped for hits that Buxton would have caught.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

It is game 4 of the LCS. I don't care how fragile someone is, they aren't making that move. I mean because of the score it didn't really mean much but I would have been pissed if they caught up because a few balls hit to center dropped for hits that Buxton would have caught.

I may have missed it. But, was the fact that it was the LCS in one of your posts?

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I may have missed it. But, was the fact that it was the LCS in one of your posts?

No it wasn't. I didn't really think it was relevant but in the context of your post I figured I'd point it out. Your point would have made a little bit of sense if it was like the end of September and the team had already clinched the division.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

No it wasn't. I didn't really think it was relevant but in the context of your post I figured I'd point it out. Your point would have made a little bit of sense if it was like the end of September and the team had already clinched the division.

Just curious, you wouldn't be Sheldon Cooper would you?

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Just curious, you wouldn't be Sheldon Cooper would you?

LOL No but I do recognize him as an extremely exaggerated version of me sometimes.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

LOL No but I do recognize him as an extremely exaggerated version of me sometimes.

[Dyzalot]

OK this is going to be a fun one to post. So the AI doesn't ph for Mauer, the lefty playing 1st but instead hits for Sanchez, my best defensive 2nd baseman on the team and who is a switch hitter that does better against lefties, with Aguiar, my right handed first baseman. Then it doesn't pinch hit for Jhang even though on the bench is Hernandez, a righty who is also better defensively at catcher. Then it brings in Randolph to play third and moves Perez to 2nd.

[Dyzalot]

Continued...

[Rain King]

Do you have a 3rd catcher? Most MLB teams flat out will not use the backup catcher as a substitute because they will get screwed if there is then an injury once 1 of their 2 catchers is out of the game. The #2 catcher is there simply to give the starting catcher a day off occasionally.

I've railed against this myself with the Cardinals because Tony Cruz is able to play 1B/3B and has at times been a better pinch hitting option than some guys on the bench (Kozma, Descalso, etc.), but the Cardinals do not use him in that kind of capacity and most MLB teams are the same.

[Dyzalot]

And then the very next game...

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Do you have a 3rd catcher? Most MLB teams flat out will not use the backup catcher as a substitute because they will get screwed if there is then an injury once 1 of their 2 catchers is out of the game. The #2 catcher is there simply to give the starting catcher a day off occasionally.

I do not have a 3rd catcher. It is unusual in this day and age for a MLB team to carry three catchers. I have a platoon at catcher though and if you set a catcher as a defensive replacement then the AI has no problem using its last catcher for that.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I do not have a 3rd catcher. It is unusual in this day and age for a MLB team to carry three catchers. I have a platoon at catcher though and if you set a catcher as a defensive replacement then the AI has no problem using its last catcher for that.

So, if there is an issue in the code it may be that the defensive replacement code isn't talking to the pinch hitting algorithm "so to speak". I agree that could be improved upon...I'm guessing that logic isn't easy to code.