Out of the Park Baseball 15 Announced!

[PSUColonel]

I'd love to see the ballparks

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Dr. P.R. Park III

From my empirical observations over the years, Markus simply doesn't understand the concept of independent leagues. They've always been an illusion, not even an after-thought. It's great and all to have foreign leagues officially added via db structure, and with customization of contract length and extensions possibly becoming a reality too, the mechanics of "independent leagues" are there (somewhat). However, without making a conscious effort to flesh out a feature literally known as "independent leagues," the process of creating or simulating them is clunky, tiresome, and frustrating.

I've supported this company for a while, and might get 15, but I've told myself as of right now it's not going to happen anymore by default. I don't think I even spent 10 game play hours on OOTP 14; the last 2-3 versions I've obsessively attempted to construct an universe model that simulates independent league baseball realistically. It's possible, but it just depends on what your interpretation of "realistic" is and your level of patience. OOTP feels more like a science experiment for me now, and lukasberger's words are not encouraging (nor surprising).

I feel your frustration brother.

Jeeze, even just a few options in the league setup menu that would allow indy leagues to realistically exist in a MLB universe would be nice.

[The Wolf]

Can someone please explain the fascination with independent leagues in an MLB game? I really don't see the appeal. Please help me get it.

[thehef]

I'm sure it's been discussed in other threads in great detail, but I would like to know - at a high-level - what the limitations and/or problems are with independent leagues in OOTP. Maybe a short list. Thanks

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Can someone please explain the fascination with independent leagues in an MLB game? I really don't see the appeal. Please help me get it.

a lot of players can come and go from Indy leagues. They are like an extension of the minors.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Can someone please explain the fascination with independent leagues in an MLB game? I really don't see the appeal. Please help me get it.

Well, if you look at it as an MLB only game then I guess there's no fascination. A lot of us look at it as a baseball game, not merely an MLB game and are interested in including as many different baseball leagues as possible both international and independent so as to have a true baseball universe. I guess it's something you either feel or don't feel. It's not really something I can explain too well

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

a lot of players can come and go from Indy leagues. They are like an extension of the minors.

They are an extension of the minors. Yeah, exactly that among other things.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Well, if you look at it as an MLB only game then I guess there's no fascination. A lot of us look at it as a baseball game, not merely an MLB game and are interested in including as many different baseball leagues as possible both international and independent so as to have a true baseball universe. I guess it's something you either feel or don't feel. It's not really something I can explain too well

So you want to do a universe and not a league? What's the appeal of that to you?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by thehef

I'm sure it's been discussed in other threads in great detail, but I would like to know - at a high-level - what the limitations and/or problems are with independent leagues in OOTP. Maybe a short list. Thanks

I'd say, at the core, the financial system. Which in reality touches upon not just independent leagues but on so many more areas of the game. As someone who has spent A LOT of time thinking about the 'big picture' it can be amazing just how much one aspect can interconnect with other areas.

I rarely see any aspect of OOTP as a stand-alone, self-contained item. It's really much more of a fantastically intricate tapestry, and pulling on one thread necessarily ends up pulling on so many others.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

So you want to do a universe and not a league? What's the appeal of that to you?

Because it mimics the real world, which has MLB, the affiliated minors, the independent minors, overseas leagues, winter leagues, college leagues, etc. Some folks like having a world that is densely populated as it makes it feel more 'real'. It perhaps can be thought of something like The Lord of the Rings, which has a richly detailed backstory which helps the events of the books feel like they're set in a real place, with a sense of history, of a specific place and time.

[The Wolf]

Got it. You don't want a league, you want a rich tapestry of leagues. Instead of a game of OOTP with one major league, you want the equivalent of multiple copies of OOTP running simultaneously.

You do realize what something that expansive is going to do to your processing time? And how little you will be able to focus on any of the leagues or teams?

Again, as with the minor league thread, I have to ask with absolutely no offense intended: you do realize what a niche request this is, right?

I also understand why Markus hasn't pursued this much.

[PSUColonel]

This is not a niche request. It is about having a realistic working world of baseball where you are just a cog in the grand scheme if things. It becomes a large sandbox...just like many space simulations or dare I say...football manager.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Got it. You don't want a league, you want a rich tapestry of leagues. Instead of a game of OOTP with one major league, you want the equivalent of multiple copies of OOTP running simultaneously.

You do realize what something that expansive is going to do to your processing time? And how little you will be able to focus on any of the leagues or teams?

People are already doing that now. Those with powerful computers are happy to take advantage of that computing power by running larger leagues, or leagues with lots of feeders, etc.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Again, as with the minor league thread, I have to ask with absolutely no offense intended: you do realize what a niche request this is, right?

OOTP already allows large, intricate baseball worlds! What is being discussed here is about ways to make those intricate worlds operate more true-to-life. (A statement which can be applied to many areas of the game.)

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Dr. P.R. Park III

I've supported this company for a while, and might get 15, but I've told myself as of right now it's not going to happen anymore by default. I don't think I even spent 10 game play hours on OOTP 14; the last 2-3 versions I've obsessively attempted to construct an universe model that simulates independent league baseball realistically. It's possible, but it just depends on what your interpretation of "realistic" is and your level of patience. OOTP feels more like a science experiment for me now, and lukasberger's words are not encouraging (nor surprising).

I kind of want to take the time to comment on this a little. (Ok, a lot)

Honestly it's too bad that my comments seemed discouraging to you. They were not intended to be discouraging at all. There isn't really any reason to feel discouragement regarding the state of real rosters and multiple "independent" leagues in the same universe in OOTP15 and beyond. Far from it, there's every reason for folks like us to be incredibly excited about OOTP!

Look at the progress made from OOTP14 to OOTP15 in just the two main areas that touch on your (and my) vision for OOTP, real rosters and multiple "independent" (non-affiliated) leagues co-existing in the same universe:

In OOTP 14 the real rosters were better than ever before. In fact in every version of OOTP lately the real rosters have gotten better and better. Most of us remember that even just a couple years ago the MLB roster set shipped with missing MiLB players, with no stats for MiLB players, with generically rated MiLB players etc.

Now every player in affiliated ball has proper ratings which are updated yearly based on the latest scouting reports and stats. They all have stats. We've gone from having a small handful of real players in the draft to this year hopefully having the entire draft filled with real players and for the first time ever, also having real players in the next two or three drafts as well.

We've added the DSL and VSL with real fully rated players and their stats. We've also added the top seven international leagues, all full of real players, accurately rated with their stats as well.

Just think about that for a moment... We now have the ***, KBO, LMB, CPBL, SN, HH and IBL all with their real teams, players and stats. Even the best of versions of the WOB never had a real Serie Nacional or LMB that I can recall and certainly didn't have ratings in each league that were on the same scale as all the other leagues. All that's been added to the default OOTP setup in just one year!

Here's some numbers on the MLB quick-start db in OOTP14 as compared to 15:

The default rosters in OOTP 14 had 27,619 players (of which something like 18,000 are retired), 17 leagues with 1 non-affiliated league (MLB) and 219 teams.

The current default rosters for 15, which aren't finished, have: 35,494 players (with something like 18,500 retired), 29 leagues with 8 non-affiliated leagues and 362 teams.

So we've added something like 8,000 new real players (with more coming) with their career stats, 12 new leagues of which 7 are non-affiliated, and 143 new teams

All that brings up the other issues you're talking about, the ability to have multiple independent, non-affiliated leagues in an OOTP universe. OOTP is undergoing major changes to allow all those leagues to co-exist in a universe and work well together financially and in regard to player and personnel movement.

You mention some of those changes which Markus had mentioned, but there's other stuff being implemented as well. Those changes will not only have a huge effect on the international leagues, but also on any independent leagues.

So really, it's hard not to be incredibly excited about the progress being made in OOTP15 regarding real rosters and non-affiliated leagues in the same universe. In fact I've never been so excited about a new version of OOTP!

Sure there aren't yet any independent leagues shipping with the default rosters. But no matter how much we'd wanted to we couldn't have added indy leagues as well. Adding all the new stuff has taken all the time the roster team has to devote to the rosters and then some.

The progress that's being made in OOTP15 is really incredible, and provides an amazing base to build on for future versions. There's every reason to be really, really hopeful regarding the places that rosters and leagues in OOTP can go in the future, wherever that may be...

Anyhow, that's my really, really long and boring

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Got it. You don't want a league, you want a rich tapestry of leagues. Instead of a game of OOTP with one major league, you want the equivalent of multiple copies of OOTP running simultaneously.

You do realize what something that expansive is going to do to your processing time? And how little you will be able to focus on any of the leagues or teams?

Again, as with the minor league thread, I have to ask with absolutely no offense intended: you do realize what a niche request this is, right?

I also understand why Markus hasn't pursued this much.

I wouldn't consider it to be niche at all.

You've played FM right? It just happens to be the most the most popular game in this genre by a million miles and ships with oh, something like 50 default leagues and gets another 100+ modded in within months.

FHM has what, 20+ leagues or so?

OOTP is actually the exception in this genre not having provided multiple leagues in its default real world setup up till now.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Can someone please explain the fascination with independent leagues in an MLB game? I really don't see the appeal. Please help me get it.

For me 2 things i like about Indy Leagues. 1. Just the full scale of running a full baseball world. From HS & college Feeders to the minors to MLB then you have to have someowhere for the .5 star players to go play and that's where the Northern League & Frontier league come in. I also like International leagues also.
Reason #2 is I have been to 20 Joliet JackHammers/Slammers games in the last 9 yrs, 7 Schaumburg Flyers and 1 Normal Cornbelters games. The Indy league is a nice alternative to ML or fictional leagues. I no longer have it but i did create the 2012 Slammers team 3 or 4 of which were former MLers 2 non MLers who I know.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I wouldn't consider it to be niche at all.

You've played FM right? It just happens to be the most the most popular game in this genre by a million miles and ships with oh, something like 50 default leagues and gets another 100+ modded in within months.

FHM has what, 20+ leagues or so?

OOTP is actually the exception in this genre not having provided multiple leagues in its default real world setup up till now.

I play FM with all leagues playable on top of additional leagues that are not in game. My Mac runs them fine and the only thing I lost focus on was the need to buy a nex gen console.

I love the idea of OOTP adding more official leagues other than MLB.

[BigbyWolf]

I will pre-order and I am very excited.

I have had a hole in my life as OOTP14 became unplayably slow with the last update. ( using 2012 macbook pro retina display ) I understand that for $40 I am getting create value on this game and have been a stalwart supporter since season ticket 2003.

Keep up the good work Markus!

[Dr. P.R. Park III]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Can someone please explain the fascination with independent leagues in an MLB game? I really don't see the appeal. Please help me get it.

I don't need to explain my "fascination" for independent leagues to a complete stranger. Playing stats only is niche from my perspective, so obviously we prefer different things. You can finagle and cater OOTP universes to do a multitude of things, and in theory utilizing independent leagues is possible, but horribly flawed.

Independent leagues are significant (especially historically) because they're a conduit for diamond-in-the-rough players; and there are more then a few "feel good" stories about players making it to The Show from the bush leagues.

lukasberger: I wasn't trying to put you on the spot. You've peaked my interest regarding possibilities of new features and behaviors. However, since none of this (other then the addition of international league rosters, which is awesome BTW) was publicly mentioned in the announcement, I'll have to wait longer. Best case scenario: I get OOTP 15 at full price and worst case: don't get it at all, it's really no sweat of anyone's back. I've had intermittent personal conversations with Markus throughout the years regarding indie leagues, and every time the dude really has no frame of reference or context as to what I'm discussing.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This is not a niche request. It is about having a realistic working world of baseball where you are just a cog in the grand scheme if things. It becomes a large sandbox...just like many space simulations or dare I say...football manager.

Niche. Most people run one league and minors.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Niche. Most people run one league and minors.

Niche isn't exactly defined as "something other than The Wolf does" or even "something that less than 51% of people do"