I'm sick of Alex Rodriguez.

[Leo_The_Lip]

From an article about 60 Minutes:

"Bosch even broke down how to give yourself the best chance beat a pee test — fill the cup mid-stream, not at the beginning or the end."

Sage advice from the master.

..."Bosch saying A-Rod would take testosterone lozenges just before games."

Was the lozenge penis-shaped?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

Was the lozenge penis-shaped?

Inquiring minds want to know.

You're thinking of Jeter.

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

What bothers me the most about this is (I'm pointing at MLB and all those caught, not just ARod), if you gamble on baseball you get a lifetime ban. If you use illegal substances to enhance your performance, you get suspended and then are allowed to come back.

As well it should be. Gambling has a much bigger potential to hurt the game than PEDs do.

MUCH bigger.

[Orioles1966]

If A Rod were an NFL QB, all these allegations would be swept under a rug. Under no circumstance would the NFL jeopardize it's tv ratings by suspending one of its star players. Since drug testing began in the NFL ,only one QB has ever been suspended over drug usage. That in itself,is amazing.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

If A Rod were an NFL QB, all these allegations would be swept under a rug. Under no circumstance would the NFL jeopardize it's tv ratings by suspending one of its star players. Since drug testing began in the NFL ,only one QB has ever been suspended over drug usage. That in itself,is amazing.

Jim Miller Yay!

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by rpriske

As well it should be. Gambling has a much bigger potential to hurt the game than PEDs do.

MUCH bigger.

Missed my point obviously.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by rpriske

As well it should be. Gambling has a much bigger potential to hurt the game than PEDs do.

MUCH bigger.

So stats that no person not on steroids could reach dont hurt the game?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by The Game

So stats that no person not on steroids could reach dont hurt the game?

This got me thinking. What the heck is the single season home run record now. Without looking it up I couldn't tell you.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by david watts

this got me thinking. What the heck is the single season home run record now. Without looking it up i couldn't tell you.

70*

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by The Game

So stats that no person not on steroids could reach dont hurt the game?

How can stats hurt the game?

I agree that steroids should be banned, but the witch hunt surrounding them has hurt the game A LOT more than some 'stats' ever have.


And if it wasn't clear, the reason gambling is WAY worse is because there is a temptation for players to try and NOT win. And if you don't see that as a bigger problem than players trying TOO MUCH to win, I suggest you go look up the Badminton Qualifiers at the last Olympics.

[TribeFanInNC]

I would have thought there would have more talk about the 60 Minutes story today. Maybe no one cares at this point (hence the whole point of the thread).

I thought the mid-stream collection point was hilarious. As a chemist (though admittedly not a biologist nor human specimen collection expert!), I can't think of why that would be. I think that is total bunk.

I loved the specific texted regiments with code words. "Take this in the morning, night cream before dinner, rocket right before BP", yada yada. I'm sure they were just talking about a surprise birthday party, right? Sheesh.

[Jason Moyer]

Alex Rodriguez sues MLB, union seeking reversal of suspension - ESPN New York

The part of the article that is interesting, at least to me, is that a federal judge has ruled that baseball violated the confidentiality agreement that was collectively bargained between management and the union. It seems to be getting less media attention than the rest of the story, but I suspect it's a fairly important detail here.

Edit: And for the love of god people, everyone who posts here should know that doping has been part of baseball for 125+ years, and anabolic steroids/HGH specifically have been part of baseball since the 1960's.

Edit 2: Single season homerun record:

1. Bonds - HGH/steroids
2. McGwire - HGH/steroids
3. Sosa - HGH/steroids
4. McGwire
5. Sosa
6. Sosa
7. Maris - no rumors I'm aware of, but played during the amphetamine/steroid/HGH era
8. Ruth - injected himself with the extract from a sheep's testicles in order to artificially boost his testosterone levels
9. Ruth

So my pick is either Jimmie Foxx or Josh Gibson, although they were likely doping like everyone else was. I wouldn't say that to Jimmie Foxx's face, though.

[jazzrack]

you know what I am sick of is this notion that that past was all free and clear of performance enhancers when we damn well know for a fact it isn't the case. tom House has clearly stated on many occasions that they were rampant during his playing days in the 60's and 70's.

in 1925 german scientists purified a bull ball extract into modern testosterone injections, but somehow no baseball players EVER used that.

and speaking of bull balls extract, that was around since pre 1880. you take a bunch of bull balls, boil them down and you get a testosterone laden soup that they would inject into the stomach.

anybody who has watched ken burns baseball documentary knows about babe ruth's "mysterious" belly ache heard around the world that the media blamed on too many hot dogs and beer. of course there is nothing mysterious about hot dogs and beer so that couldn't be it.

so yeah, babe ruth and the offensive explosion that happened was completely above board... my shiny white ...

[jazzrack]

Originally Posted by rpriske

As well it should be. Gambling has a much bigger potential to hurt the game than PEDs do.

MUCH bigger.

I would argue that enhancers saved baseball twice.

the black sox almost killed baseball, until the ball started flying out of the park

labor disagreements devastated attendance, until the ball started flying out the park.



stats are meaningless if only statheads care

[John Madden]

Originally Posted by jazzrack

you know what I am sick of is this notion that that past was all free and clear of performance enhancers when we damn well know for a fact it isn't the case. tom House has clearly stated on many occasions that they were rampant during his playing days in the 60's and 70's.

And who is Aaron's teammate in this picture of HR #715?




Our buddy Tom House, who is living proof steriods don't make you a star.

[Jason Moyer]

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by The Game

So stats that no person not on steroids could reach dont hurt the game?

It hurts as much as the single season 59 win record set back in 1884. People haven't really cared about starting pitchers for a long time, because nobody can reach the same stats as those old timers.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by rpriske

How can stats hurt the game?

I agree that steroids should be banned, but the witch hunt surrounding them has hurt the game A LOT more than some 'stats' ever have.


And if it wasn't clear, the reason gambling is WAY worse is because there is a temptation for players to try and NOT win. And if you don't see that as a bigger problem than players trying TOO MUCH to win, I suggest you go look up the Badminton Qualifiers at the last Olympics.

Phony stats can hurt the game by shaking people's faith in the validity of results. Same story with gambling. I do agree with your point, however, that gambling (and the concomitant incentive to artificially influence results) is potentially much worse than PED cheating.

[Déjà Bru]

By the way, does anybody else consider A-Rod's suing his own union to be rather a dumb move? Suing MLB is a no-brainer, of course. I guess he didn't have grounds to sue the Yankees, other than the medical staff on some another matter.

But suing the Players Association? Isn't that like biting the hand that feeds him? How can that possibly add to his credibility or to public and judicial sympathy for his case? It looks like he's lashing out on all sides.

The suit says the union did not do enough to protect his interests but in the end, they provided for the binding arbitration that went against him and that's all they could do. I guess A-Rod wanted a strike on his behalf.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Phony stats can hurt the game by shaking people's faith in the validity of results. Same story with gambling. I do agree with your point, however, that gambling (and the concomitant incentive to artificially influence results) is potentially much worse than PED cheating.

It's only phony if you want to call it that way. You can call outcomes influenced by stealing signs as phony, or you can call that gamesmanship. It's all in the mindset. The results are also invalid only if you want it to be considered invalid.

Your reasoning is really based on the conclusion you already made. In reality these things all based on the sentiment of the time, and can change any time.


There is no major sports as phony as pro wrestling, and that didn't impact its popularity. The difference is in what's considered acceptable by the audiences.