Spritze/Garlon DB

[fredmanrique]

Yes, thank you Spritze. This really is a fantastic DB and your hard work is much appreciated.
I hadn't thought of the lessening players with fewer AB's adjustment, I'll try playing with it a little bit.
Thanks again.

[Pronkytonk]

I am using the newest version of your database and I am loving it - great work !

One minor issue I encountered is that few players are not imported with the correct draft class. One player I remember is SP Candy Cummings, who made his debut in 1872 and is not imported correctly with the draft class of 1872 (or any other class AFAIK). I checked the master.csv and could not find any errors. Any idea what could be the problem ?

[plannine]

Originally Posted by Pronkytonk

I am using the newest version of your database and I am loving it - great work !

One minor issue I encountered is that few players are not imported with the correct draft class. One player I remember is SP Candy Cummings, who made his debut in 1872 and is not imported correctly with the draft class of 1872 (or any other class AFAIK). I checked the master.csv and could not find any errors. Any idea what could be the problem ?

He showed up in my 1872 draft (in Sept 1871).................

[Spritze]

Showed up in mine as well.

[Pronkytonk]

I double checked and Mr. Cummings still does not appear. I realized that in the original Lahman master.csv, his debut date was wrong (04-22-1871 instead of 1872). In your master.csv the debut year is correct.

I tried to edit the historical.odb and found that there is the same mistake. After correcting it and saving the historical.odb, the game did not work correctly anymore, stating an invalid file error on the historical database so I had to replace it with my backup original file. How may I edit the historical.odb to deal with this problem ?

[plannine]

Spritze/Garlon

Is it the fielding file that the game uses to set what position a player plays?

I need to make a few players, "pitchers only", and a few pitchers "players only" so they don't have 1 year in one roll and the rest of their career in another.

(The Babe, (for his first years), Will be a pitcher one month, a player the next, with the rotation changing from a 3 man to a 5 man with out him - i think thats the only easy way to get him close to his numbers, with out managing the team or hurting the rest of the team - the only thing that might change that is if they have the best hitting team already.)

A few more test runs, and a few more 'house/game rules" and then we get into actually taking over the Chicago team (Cubs) and manage 130 years!!!

[Spritze]

Yes it is the fielding file that helps determine positions playable.

[Spritze]

Just uploaded the 715 run version of the neutralized db to allsimbaseball.com

Exactly the same as the 750 run Bill James version that comes with OOTP 9 except set for a 715 run environment instead of a 750 run environment.

This was produced during beta testing a few months ago as some testers wished to try it out, take it for a test drive so to speak. In my personal testing it has been found that either version produces the same outcomes so it just depends on your particular point of view as to which one a person might wish to use.

[Greatgrampa]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Just uploaded the 715 run version of the neutralized db to allsimbaseball.com

Exactly the same as the 750 run Bill James version that comes with OOTP 9 except set for a 715 run environment instead of a 750 run environment.

This was produced during beta testing a few months ago as some testers wished to try it out, take it for a test drive so to speak. In my personal testing it has been found that either version produces the same outcomes so it just depends on your particular point of view as to which one a person might wish to use.

What was the reason in beta testing to make a 715 run version? Just curious especially since you say that they produce the same outcomes? Thanks!

[Spritze]

some people didn't believe the outcomes would be the same.

All this db does bottom line is level the playing field and then rank everyone. So a player gets the same rank whether the environment is 715 or 750 runs.

A player ranked 73rd in the 750 run environment is still ranked 73rd in the 715 and since things are controlled by ratios and modifiers not raw stats it just makes no nevermind which one is used.

[Knuckster]

Originally Posted by Garlon

8. Fixed gaps in the playing records of all players in the DB.
Many players missed seasons for various reasons during their career, being sent to the minor leagues, injuries, military service, etc.
We filled in these gaps of a player's recod by taking an average of the bookend seasons of the gap and applying it to all missing seasons in that gap.
This was done so that no players would be permanently missing when you start a league in OOTP.
It will also help with recalc mode by providing additional statistics.

9. Fixed low AB or IP totals for players who had at least one full season of career stats but may have only had a few AB or IP in a given season.
We pro-rated any missing AB to give a player 251 AB on the season based on his career average.
We pro-rated any missing IP to give a pitcher 40 IP on the season based on his career average.
This was done so that OOTP can provide better ratings in these instances.
All players in the DB who had at least 550 AB career or 162 IP career, will have at least 251 AB and 40 IP in any season in which they played.

It is #9 that bothers me most. I'm examining players for my redraft league that starts in 1920. And this #9 really inflates the value of a lot of players.

Take only one example (of many):

Mike "Minooka Mike" McNally
whose real career totals (1915-1925) were 492 games and 1000 AB and 85 RBI. The most at bats he had in single seasons were 312, 215, 143, and 135. His other season he ranged from 21 to 69 at bats and was obviously a "non-force" in those years.

Yet being up the "neutralized stats screen" and whoa, we have a whole new player!

His career at bats have almost tripled, to 2829. He now has 230 RBI (again, triple what he actually had). The 250 at bats and wel over 100 games played eah season (as "neutralized") suddenly make him a steady back up player for some team for ten years. Whereas in real life his career was unstable.

So I am not that familiar with OOTP 9 (I just got it), although I used to play a former version a lot. But it seems in these instances - and there are many - that marginal players are suddenly given whole careers which they never had.

I mean this is a lot different than just tweaking stats for what ball parks they played in and the type pof pitching staff that fronted them. This injects an aberration into the game. I dont want my league to see this guy get 250 Abs every year for ten years when in reality he was a bit player almost his entire career.

Is the computer AI going to rank him based on real or neutralized stats? Is the AI more likely to draft him or trade for him, or play him, based on his sudden emergence as a 100+ game playerevery year? Im sorry I dont know the intricacies of 9.0. I liked the idea of neutralizing the stats, but only of neutralizing them, not creating tripling the playing time for marginal players.

A similar thing happens regarding #8 "fixing gaps" - which produces some really unrealistic statitistics. Say a "relief pitcher" pitched in 1920 and not again until 1926 - and nothing in between. Since those missing years are filled in, the guy suddenly becomes a steady reliever for seven years, instead of a guy who hurled two seasons. Again, how is the computer going to evaluate such a player's stats.

[Spritze]

Please remember that OOTP uses ratios not stats to rate players.

Mr. McNally will only play to the extent his ratios allow, not the raw stats the ratios are created from. So if he played poorly in 69 AB;s and played poorly in 215 AB's adding a few extra AB's he also played poorly during will not result in a better player. He will only play to the extent a poor player would play on whatever team you have him playing poorly on. Worst case is he might steal some playing time from another poor player or even a poorer player but he won't steal any time from a good player or even a mediocre one.

It is all about the ratios.

[plannine]

After playing with the DB for a while (and re-starting at each new version - now using SpritzeDB 3.3), I found a few things to make stats 'seem right'.
While I try and set most things to the closest settings for 1871 baseball, a few changes i've been doing over the course of the games history. (note: I do not use Neutralized Stats and recal is 5 years)

I have retire option turned off except on indicated years (right after World Series). This elimates many cup of coffee players, who suddenly get lucky and become OOTP Stars! Roster sizes are close to actual usage by teams of the time period. Rather then spend alot of time moving teams and league to match the development of baseball in the 1800's, the games defaults seem to give reasonable results.


Year Games Roster SP
1871---30------16/20----1 (No Minors /3 Years FA until 1900 then No FA)
1879---84------17/21----2 (Use Retire Option at end of season)
1884---112-----18/23----3 (Use Retire Option at end of season)
1891---154-----20/25----4 (Use Retire Option at end of season)
1900---------------------- (Use Retire Option at end of season)

1904-----------21/26 (add Triple A Minors)
1924-----------23/28 (add Double A)
1925 (use Retire Option at end of season)
1944-----------25/30 (add Single A)
1950 (Use Retire Option at end of season)


While I havent figured out what Im going to do when the 70's and free agency ruins the game, I know I've enjoyed every bit of the first 80 years. (I just "Commission' until 1954 when I take over a Minor League Team and try and work my way up!)


Thanks to Spritz, Garlon and all the others who made this work! (and a big Also a big thanks to Markus, his team and the game, that dragged me away (dice cup in hand) from playing APBA baseball.


On a final note, Is the going to be another release of this DB?

[Spritze]

Yes there will be another.

Will add 2008 when the new Lahman comes out.

PLUS, fixed all the o'briens and every one else with an ' in their names (Lahman had changed their id's and doubled some years up), fixed a Lahman Kevin Brown error (two kevins were cross-linked), stuff like that has been handled. If you notice anything else please mention it here and I'll nail that as well.

Thanks

[phillosopherp]

I am currently running you DB and I don't know if this is something I F'th up or the game maybe or what but I am playing with you DB in 1962 as the Mets expansion team. And right now my everyday players are better at pitching then all my pitchers combined. They are 100's across the board in every pitching rating. Is that WAD or did I screw something up, or the game screw something up I just don't get it.

[Spritze]

The good news is the game ignores pitching ratings for position players.

I created a game in 1962 and took on the Mets. None of the position players had these ratings, in fact none in the entire league did, so I suspect the game weirded out on you in some way. I don't see how anything you did could have caused this.

[phillosopherp]

yeah its wierd. I copied all the files into the stats file and moved the original ones to the desktop and then created a new 1962 historical with unhistorical minor leagues at all leave and all the 40-man position people all have light blue rating is pitching. I am thinking about converting them to pitchers...lol.

Just thought I would pass it on just incase. Thanks for looking into it, and for the DB it looks great so far. Good work.

Might also be that I have scouts on, but the scout I was given is EXCELLENT 91/99/99/96 so I don't know.

[plannine]

Bob Forsch seem to come in as a outfielder and never switches to pitcher (in 2 test runs). Personally I think people who did not play a percentage of their games at a position shouldnt be rated there.


The other thing is, that the (high) number of players from Japan seems to unrealistically dilute the major leagues. I havent look at the length of their careers or age of entry, but so far many good pro players are being left out (mainly seen at SS/2B and RP) never gracing the major league roster - were not talking utility players, were talking people who were starting at their position for 7 to 10 years becoming career minor leaguers. Since this is only from one test of the complete history (1871-on) and happens from 1960 on, it may change with the next testing. Next test I will eliminate the draft to see if that helps the 'real' players.

[Spritze]

The db does include most of the Japanese players who had careers of 15 or more years.

You will also noticed that a few Japanese pitchers have very good ML careers as starters due to their very good ratings in not allowing HR's. I assummed this was because Japanese players in general hit fewer HR's than players in the states. So I normalized for that and found out that it actually turned out that a few of the Japanese pitchers were just really, really good at not allowing HR's and that in many cases this was their main skill. Most Japanese pitchers allowed a "normal" amount of HR's once the leagues were normalized to each other but a few were just light-years ahead of their brethren. Since in some cases this was that players main skill and since in reading quite a few books on the Japanese Leagues I noticed that these players worked on that skill constantly and developed specific pitches to produce that skill I left them with that skill in the db. I think they really might have been that good if given the chance in the major leagues just like many of the negro players might have been. No one will ever know for sure.

If you wish to remove Japanese players simply delete all records in the Master.csv with Japan in the college field. Negro leaguers have Negro in that field.

[Spritze]

Be sure to read at least the last parargraph of the read me before use.

This is the non-neutered Spritze db not the Spritze/Garlon db that is neutralized. Does include all the additional players and has extended career paths for most players. Gaps are filled in etc, etc.