My Universe

[JCWeb]

Jan 1916 FW Division Profile

Total: 69 RL: 32 TC: 37

RL by Career Stage:
End - 1
Post- 9
Prime - 15
Pre - 3
Beginning - 4 (1 New)

Rated: 25
800+: 5
500+: 15
200+: 23

Jan 1916 Rankings (Perf Pts and Changes from Jan 1915 in Parens)

Champ: Johnny Kilbane 28-6-4 (10) (1155) (+2)
1. Abe Attell 61-4-1 (23) (1217) (NC)
2. Eugene Criqui 21-3-3 (10) (938) (+5)
3. Johnny Dundee 23-5 (9) (841) (NC)
4. Owen Moran 40-16-3 (16) (809) (+5)
5. Steve Sullivan 17-4 (4) (789) (+9)
6. Patsy Brannigan 20-6-3 (7) (783) (NC)
7. Kid Julian 21-6-5 (8) (765) (-2)
8. Brooklyn Tommy Sullivan 45-20-5 (25) (759) (NC)
9. Jimmy Walsh 31-14-4 (8) (731) (-9)
10. Grover Hayes 37-14-2 (22) (683) (+1)

Comments: Four of these guys will be at Post starting 1916 (Moran and Hayes joing Walsh and BT Sullivan who were already there), rest are at Prime. Kilbane became the 22nd WBA FW champ after finding that an opponent other than Abe Attell (i.e., someone he could beat) was holding the belt. He went 3-0 for the year, with the title win and UD 10s over Dundee and BT Sullivan. Attell retains the highest Perf Pt total, winning all three NABF defenses handily. Criqui went 3-1 in 1915, all in title bouts. Dundee began with losses to S. Sullivan and Kilbane but a SD win over O'Keefe and a UD 10 over Chaney boosted his stock. Moran has now won his last four, going 3-0 with two CBU title defenses and a UD 10 over Lee Johnson. Steve "Kid" Sullivan shot all the way to the top group with his upset win for the USBA belt, along with a MD 10 over Leo Johnson and a UD 10 over Walsh in non-title bouts. Julian went 2-1, keeping the EBU belt, beating Reddy (UD 10) but losing to Criqui in WBA action. Brooklyn Tommy kept pace by TKOing Cobb and scoring a UD 10 win over Hayes despite the one loss to Kilbane. Walsh had lost three before a UD 10 over Reddy salvaged his year. Grover "Battler" Hayes moved back into the top 10 with a UD 10 over Frankie Ellis, coupled with wins over Leo Johnson and Jimmy Hill.

Other Notables: Eddie O'Keefe dropped out of the top group, slipping one spot to #11, after losing three of four bouts in 1915. He scored a UD over Walsh but dropped two title bouts and a SD to Dundee. George "KO" Chaney is ranked #12 after a 3-2 year, downing Cove, Lee Johnson and Hill but losing to top 10 opposition. Chaney's career totals are 19-9 (12). Leo Johnson took a real plunge, down 10 spots to #14, suffering three losses versus only one win (SD over KO Mars). Ty Cobb has won three in a row to advance to #13. Veteran contender Percy Cove is mired at 17th in the rankings after losses to Chaney and Moran prevented him from advancing.

Prospects: The list is fairly short. Staying unbeaten were Ansell Bell, who rolled up a 8-0 (6) mark, all versus TCs, and Willie Ames at 8-0-1 (4), who was held to a TD in his last outing. Filipino fighter Francisco Flores lost on a DQ to a TC to drop his record to 3-1. Danny Edwards is still unbeaten at 3-0 (1), but Vincent "Pepper" Martin stumbled out of the gate, being held to a draw in his debut and is now 0-0-1.

Retirements: One veteran FW contender hung up the gloves in 1915.

Billy Snailham (USA) 1901-15 39-27-3 (15) NABF Champ Highest Rank: 4

Looking Ahead: Having lost the WBA belt, Criqui is likely to challenge Kid Julian for the EBU belt. Likewise, Attell will be searching out Kilbane, whom he has dominated, for an opportunity to regain the WBA belt. Eddie O'Keefe and KO Chaney will try to move into the Top 10 to replace some of the aging veterans, like BT Sullivan, Hayes and Walsh. Still not much in the way of new blood, but the one newcomer for 1916 is expected to be a good one -- Bud Ridley.

Bold Prediction(s) for 1916: Was thinking about predicting Attell regaining the crown over Kilbane but since that won't be a bold prediction, I will go the other way and predict Kilbane over Attell in a WBA title rematch. I also expect to see Dundee, O'Keefe or Chaney step up to claim the USBA belt now held by Brannigan.

[JCWeb]

1915 BW Title Bouts

Headline: Another First-Time Champion Wins the WBA Belt

WBA Title Fights

Johnny Coulon CH (33-3-4) vs Frankie Conley #7 (28-12-1)

It is Conley's second try for the WBA belt, having lost a UD 15 verdict to Coulon five years earlier, in 1910. Conley is coming off a win over Kid Murphy that has re-established himself as a BW contender.

Coulon looks sharp in the early going, which is mainly a defensive-minded battle. The "Chicago Spider" asserts himself by establishing his jab early, confusing Conley. Conley does better on the inside in round three, but has to withstand a late barrage by the Champ. Coulon gets the better of it in rounds four and five to build a massive points lead. Conley tries to be more aggressive in the middle rounds, but Coulon gives him no openings. Conley starts to run out of gas by round 10, and is suffering from a swollen left eye. Coulon coasts to a UD 15 win despite a late cut opened by Conley in round 11. Coulon by UD 15 (149-137, 147-139, 149-137).

Johnny Coulon CH (34-3-4) vs Al Delmont #5 (39-15-3)

Delmont gets a title shot, as he is coming off wins over Mackey (UD) and Dastillon (SD), not the toughest of the BW crop. Coulon has not lost in 13 straight bouts (11 wins and 2 draws), an unbeaten streak that dates back to 1910. Prior meetings show a decisive 3-0 edge for the Champ.

After the usual feeling out process, Delmont moves inside in round two and takes the round. After a lacklustre round three, once again it is Delmont carrying the fight to the Chicago Spider, landing a big uppercut and showing good hand speed with jabs and combinations. Coulon switches his strategy and tries to work more on the inside. Some good action in round 8, as Delmont lands a hook to the head but Coulon counters with some quick jabs. Delmont comes on strong toward the end of the 9th as both men are looking for a second wind. Delmont presses the attack in the 10th, and after that round ringside experts have him ahead by 96-94. Coulon, sensing his title reign may be near an end, steps up the pace in rounds 11 and 12. Delmont comes back in round 13, and this one is headed for a great finish. Delmont proves the fitter as he takes the last two rounds and the WBA title by a SD (143-142 Delmont, 142-144 Coulon, 143-142 Delmont) as an over-confident Coulon seemed a bit too cautious in the final two rounds, which made the difference in the fight.

NABF: Kid Murphy starts the year off with the belt and defends it versus Frankie Conley. Murphy is off to a quick start, but Conley rallies with a strong round 2. A key moment of the bout occurs in round 3, when Murphy sustains a cut above his right eye. Conley is taking a beating through six when the cut over Murphy's eye reopens in round 7 and leads to an 8th round stoppage after his corner can't control it. Conley by TKO 8 to take the belt. Conley defends versus Eddie Campi in an action-packed encounter. Campi is the aggressor, and it pays off as he builds an earlier lead. Conley falls back on his superior stamina to stay in the fight until the end. An uppercut by Conley ends it in dramatic fashion, with a last round knockout -- and a check of all three scorecards showed Conley needed the KO to win the fight. Conley by KO 12 in a memorable bout.

USBA: Philadelphia Pal Moore defended the belt versus ex-USBA champ Kid Williams, who was seeking to revive his career. Williams seizes control early with a knockdown in round three, kept Moore off balance most of the night and coasted to a solid UD 12 win (117-111, 117-111, 115-113). Williams defended late in the year against ex-NABF champ Kid Murphy, who seems ready from the get-go as he puts Williams on his back for an 8-count in round one. Williams recovers with a strong round 4, and by the end of the fifth Murphy is cut above the left eye although he has dished out enough punishment such that Williams' left eye is starting to swell. The bruising battle continues into the later rounds, with Murphy landing a big hook to stagger Williams in the 9t, but Murphy then is cut above the right eye. A late surge by Williams enables him to survive into round 12 when the cuts suffered by Murphy lead to a stoppage. Williams by TKO 12 (the bout was close on all three cards, but Murphy was slightly ahead on two of them).

CBU, GBU: Joe Bowker did not defend either of these belts in 1915, and British boxing authorities are considering stripping him of his GBU crown if he does not defend it early in 1916.

EBU: Charles Ledoux put his EBU title on the line in a defense versus the aforementioned Joe Bowker, whom he bested via SD two years earlier. This time an older and slower Bowker is less of a challenge, as Ledoux puts the Brit on the canvas in round one and then puts the contest away with two more KDs in round 5, the first via a combination and then a cross -- and Bowker is unable to beat the count so it goes down as a KO 5 for Ledoux.

[JCWeb]

Jan 1916 BW Division Profile

Total: 64 RL: 29 TC: 35

RL by Career Stage:
End - 2
Post- 4
Prime- 12
Pre - 6
Beginning - 5 (3 New)

Rated: 21
800+: 5
500+: 13
200+: 21

Jan 1916 Rankings (Perf Pts and Changes from Jan 1915 in Parens)

Champ: Al Delmont 40-15-3 (16) (972) (+6)
1. Johnny Coulon 34-4-4 (15) (971) (-1)
2. Kid Williams 24-3 (13) (955) (+3)
3. Phila Pal Moore 29-5-3 (11) (924) (-2)
4. Charles Ledoux 27-4 (23) (844) (-1)
5. Frankie Burns 23-9-1 (7) (789) (+3)
6. Frankie Conley 29-13-1 (16) (768) (+4)
7. Eddie Campi 21-4-2 (13) (767) (-3)
8. Kid Murphy 35-15-1 (22) (717) (-6)
9. Pete Herman 15-1 (12) (679) (new)
10. Memphis Pal Moore 15-1 (10) (672) (new)

Comments: All at prime except for the two newcomers to the list, Herman and Memphis Pal Moore, who are still at Pre-Prime. All except Ledoux are US fighters. Delmont finally reached the top of the pack with a 3-0 year winning a UD versus Mackey and a SD over Dastillon before taking the title in a huge upset. Coulon had his 13-bout win streak snapped as his past history of surviving all those close calls finally caught up with him. Williams had a tremendous year, defeating EBU Champ Ledoux in a UD 10 after the two USBA title tilts. Phila Pal Moore recovered from the USBA title bout loss to defeat Feltz (TKO 8) and Stanley (UD 10) but could only manage a draw with Campi. Ledoux retained the EBU belt and blasted out Phil McGovern in 5 but suffered the loss to Williams late in the year to stall any additional advancement. Burns went 3-0 against Monte Attell, Biderberg and Stanley but needs to step it up versus stiffer competition next year. Conly kept his NABF belt but lost his try for the WBA crown -- again. Campi had a win, a loss and a draw in 1915, the UD 10 win over Jack "Kid" Wolfe was enough to keep him in the Top 10. Kid Murphy slid down the list but it was a UD 10 over Wolfe that kept him from sliding even further. Herman won all five bouts in 1915, featuring KOs over Fox and Hugh McGovern plus UDs over Goldman and Biderberg to prove he belongs in the top group now. Memphis Pal Moore bounced back from his only loss (to Herman) with a SD 10 over Wolfe and UD 10s over Dastillion and Flyweight Earl Puryear.

Other Notables: Joe Bowker dropped two spots to #11, dropping a MD 10 to the aging Tommy Feltz but winning over British FLY contenders Percy Jones and Tancy Lee; Bowker's career record is 38-22-4 (20) with 569 pp. Jack (Kid) Wolfe fell five spots to #12, winding up a disappointing 1-3 campaign -- his only win versus H McGovern overshadowed by losses to Kid Murphy, Phila Pal Moore and Campi. Monte Attell went 2-2 in 1915 to rank #13 but may not be improving much as aging effects kick in next year. Frenchman Robert Dastillon seems overrated at #14 with a 12-5-1 (8) career mark; he is followed by Brit Joe Fox at #15 with a 14-5-1 (6) record. Other long-time BW stalwarts are facing the twilight of their careers, with Phil McGovern and Charles Goldman at End and Attell, Bowker, Stanley and Mackey at Post-Prime.

Prospects: A very bright spots here. Johnny "Kewpie" Ertle lost a UD 10 to Biderberg (aka Louisiana) after a 10-1 start to his career, but he rebounded to hand Little Jack Sharkey his first career loss on a foul and DQ. Ertle's record stands at 12-2 (4); Sharkey is at 10-1 (8), all 10 wins versus TCs. Aussie Vince Blackburn at 8-0 (5) is unbeaten versus TC opposition, as are more recent additions Joe Lynch, 4-0 (4) record and Packey O'Gatty at 3-0 (3).

Retirements: Two fighters active since the early 1900s hung up the gloves.

Tommy Feltz (USA) 1899-1915 35-23-1 (21) No Titles Highest Rank: 6
Hugh McGovern (USA) 1902-15 29-23-1 (14) NABF Champ Highest Rank: 3

Looking Ahead: Williams, following his win over Ledoux, seems ready to challenge for the WBA title. Coulon will also be looking for an opportunity to regain the WBA belt. Harris and Memphis Pal Moore both seem ready to take on stiffer competition. Burns, as well as Campi, need to prove themselves versus tougher competition. Joe Fox may be in line to succeed Bowker as GBU champ soon, given that he is now at Prime career stage. Ertle and Sharkey are about a year away from being in a position to shake things up. Joe Burman and Abe Goldstein are the best of the rookie crop in this division for 1916.

Bold Prediction for 1916: Al Delmont will not keep the belt for long, and my bold prediction is that Kid Williams will be wearing the WBA crown at the end of 1916, going into 1917.

[JCWeb]

Headline: Jimmy Wilde Continues to Dominate Flyweight Action

1915 FLY Title Bouts

WBA

Jimmy Wilde CH (20-1) vs Percy Jones #1 (14-4-1)

Wilde takes on the only man to defeat him, Percy Jones, but that was some time ago and Jones has also hit Post-Prime career stage, meaning he is not the fighter he once was.

Wilde starts off well, dominating the early action. In round three he delivers a devastating overhand right that lands flush, sending Jones to the canvas. Wilde pushes forward in round four, with Jones in full retreat. The challenger recovers enough to land a big hook late in round six, but the "Mighty Atom" is way too strong as he punishes Jones until the ref steps in to call a halt. Wilde by TKO 8.

Jimmy Wilde CH (21-1) vs Sid Smith #3 (22-8)

Smith gets a chance to recapture the WBA belt he lost to Wilde in 1914.

Sid Smith gets off to a slow start, and Wilde takes full advantage, pinning Smith in the corner in round one, landing repeatedly. Smith battles back to the make the bout competitive through the first four stanzas. In round five, Wilde lands a big combination that stuns the challenger. Then the Mighty Atom whips it into high gear, landing another big shot to put Smith down in round six. More of the same in round seven, and once again the ref sensibly steps in to save Smith from further punishment. Wilde by TKO 7.

Jimmy Wilde CH (22-1) vs Frankie Mason #2 (16-7-1)

Wilde next takes on the top American Flyweight, Frankie Mason, in the first meeting of the two. Mason, who last fought in 1914 (defeating aging BW Young Oliver) is seeking to regain the WBA title he held briefly in 1912-13.

Wilde tries to establish his jab early in the bout, landing two strong body shots for even greater effect near the end of round one. Round two, the Mighty Atom works inside, putting Mason on his back with a combination, and by the end of the round Mason's right eye is already starting to puff up. Wilde tries hard to put Mason away in the third, but despite a repeated pounding the American challenger stays on his feet. Wilde continues to hammer away, building a commanding points lead after five. Round six, a solid hook by Wilde scores the bout's second KD and the Champ follows up with an uppercut for another KD before the ref waves it off. Wilde by TKO 6.

Jimmy Wilde CH (23-1) vs Sid Smith #4 (22-9)

With no more available challengers around, a very active Wilde defends against Smith once more. He holds a 3-0 edge in prior bouts, and there is no reason to think this one is going to come out any differently.

Wilde dominates the early action in round one as Smith cannot find the range with his punches. Smith tries to box more on the outside in the second, but the Mighty Atom doubles up on his jab to win the round decisively. Round three sees Wilde swarming all over his hapless opponent, and the ref pulls him off when Smith is pinned, helpless against the ropes. Wilde by TKO 3.

Jimmy Wilde CH (24-1) vs Joe Symonds #7 (13-5-3)

The first meeting of the two, and Symonds' first title shot. Jimmy Wilde has been building up an impressive resume as a the dominant figure now in this fledgling division. Symonds did beat Percy Jones once, and Jones was the only man to defeat Wilde thus far, so an upset is not out of the question.

Wilde lands a big uppercut to punctuate a strong opening stanza. The Champ presses forward in round two, putting Symonds on the defensive. By round 3, there is noticeable swelling around the right eye of the challenger. Symonds tries to be more aggressive in round four, but he is just a more inviting target for Wilde's blows. The Mighty Atom finally ends it with a cross to the head in round five. Symonds does not get up. Wilde by KO 5.

USBA: The first-ever USBA Flyweight title bout is held in December 1915, with Frankie Mason and Young Zulu Kid serving as the two protagonists. Mason, an ex-WBA titlelist, is the clear favorite with a huge edge in experience. Mason breaks open a reasonably close bout when he lands a big shot early in round 6, putting the Kid on the deck for a 9-count. Mason follows up with a hook that staggers Kid in round seven, and he eases back in the later rounds as Kid wears down. Mason by UD 12 (117-111, 117-111, 115-113) to become the first holder of the USBA Flyweight title, just as he became the division's first WBA titleholder back in 1912.

CBU, GBU: Bill Ladbury defended his CBU belt in July of 1915 for the first time since late 1913. Percy Jones, then GBU champ, fought Ladbury in a bout with both belts (CBU and GBU) up for grabs. A combination by Jones put a shocked Ladbury on the canvas in round one. However, the fight turned around in dramatic fashion in round four when Jones suffered a severe cut over the right eye, and the bout was stopped. Ladbury was awarded both belts by a TKO 4. Later in the year, he defended the GBU belt against Tancy Lee. The action was slow to develop, but when it did, Lee was the aggressor, outscoring the more experienced Ladbury and punctuating his claim to the belt with a right cross that put Ladbury on the deck in the final round. Lee by UD 12 (118-111, 117-112, 118-111). Lee takes the GBU belt while Ladbury keeps the CBU title which was not at stake.

[Ric915]

Great Stuff JC

I've always liked Wilde even going back to the old board game days. Awesome

[JCWeb]

Jan 1916 FLY Division Profile

Total: 27 RL: 10 TC: 17

RL by Career Stage:
Post - 1
Prime - 7
Pre - 1
Beginning - 1 (1 New)

Rated: 9
800+: 1
500+: 1
200+: 9

Jan 1916 Rankings (Perf Pts and Changes from Jan 1915 in Parens):

Champ: Jimmy Wilde 25-1 (24) (943) (NC)
1. Frankie Mason 17-8-1 (469) (+1)
2. Tancy Lee 14-7-1 (406) (+3)
3. Bill Ladbury 29-8-1 (405) (+1)
4. Percy Jones 14-7-1 (395) (-3)
5. Sid Smith 22-10 (351) (-2)
6. Young Zulu Kid 11-2-2 (7) (273) (new)
7. Earl Puryear 14-4-2 (3) (267) (-1)
8. Joe Symonds 13-6-3 (228) (-1)

Comments: Percy Jones is the one guy at Post and Young Zulu Kid, who debuts in the rankings at #6, is still at Pre; the rest are all at Prime. Just about the only story here is the continuing dominance of Wilde, who won all five title defenses in 1915 inside the distance to extend his win streak to 12 bouts, his last loss coming to Jones back in 1912. American Frankie Mason won the inaugural USBA title belt and right now is probably the second best guy in the division since Jones has started to show signs of aging. Lee stepped up to defeat Ladbury for the GBU belt and may be the next guy in line to challenge Wilde. His record is deceiving since a couple of those losses came when he tried to step up and take on some BWs even before hitting Prime career stage. Ladbury was 2-1 for the year, beating Puryear but losing the bout to Lee. He must now be regarded as a cut below both Mason and Lee. Jones slipped, going 0-3 for the year and it's unlikely to expect any kind of a rebound as his skills deterioriate with the aging effects. Smith dropped the two bouts to Wilde, and perhaps he needs to set his sights a bit lower now (like a CBU or GBU title) if he is to advance back up the rankings. Young Zulu Kid debuts at #6 despite the fact that all his wins were against TCs -- so he needs to prove himself, which may not happen until he hits Prime career stage. Puryear's only win in 1915 was versus TC opposition, and he lost to Ladbury and BW prospect Memphis Pal Moore -- not a good sign. Symonds did manage a UD 10 over aging BW vet Hugh McGoven but loss to Lee and Wilde -- it seems like his ranking should be a bit higher.

No prospects, no other guys to comment on since there is no one ranked below the top ten, no retirements yet (although Percy Jones is probably just a couple of years away right now).

Looking Ahead: The continued dominance of Wilde is likely to carry through until at least the early 1920s as there is no one on the horizon with the skills to dethrone him. Mason and Lee are the top two contenders right now, perhaps they will be matched together soon -- Lee appears to be on the upsurge after that impressive win over Ladbury. Wilde vs Lee for the WBA title is a potential future matchup that may be coming in 1916. One newcomer to be added to the mix in 1916 -- American Johnny McCoy -- and he may turn out to be a really strong contender several years down the road after he gains some experience.

Bold Prediction: Can't really think of one. I think Wilde is going to continue as Champ for quite some time, and since there's nothing bold about that prediction, I won't make one for this division.

[JCWeb]

Finally, here's the 1915 wrap-up report and the eagerly awaited annual pound-for-pound ratings. This is always a high point for me because it means I have concluded another year in my Universe and am set to embark on the next year. It also helps me gain some perspective by taking a big picture overview of what's been happening and where things are going.

First observation was the fact that six of the eight world titles changed hands in 1915 -- two of them twice, so the era of the dominant champions (guys like Attell and for awhile it looked like Dillon, Langford, Britton and Ketchel who seemed in position to rule a division for a long time) seems to have ended for now, at least. Of the current champs, only Jimmy Wilde in the really thin Flyweight division appears poised for a long title reign. I think this mainly reflects the influx of many talented fighters in each division that has created more parity (and many more interesting title bouts, too), plus it seems the Perf Pts numbers reflect this with overall inflation in the ratings points for the deeper divisions. More on this ratings inflation issue in a minute.

Without further ado, here are the pound-for-pound ratings for the year just ended (1915):

1. Sam McVey HW (WBA Champ) 1403 pp (+5)
2. Jem Driscoll LW 1390 pp (+3)
3. Sam Langford HW 1338 pp (-1)
4. Packey McFarland WW (NABF Champ) 1308 pp (NC)
5. Freddie Welsh LW (EBU, GBU Champ) 1287 pp (+4)
6. Jack Blackburn LW 1255 pp (-3)
7. Willie Ritchie LW (WBA Champ) 1241 pp (new)
8. Jack Johnson HW (NABF Champ) 1240 pp (NC)
9. Abe Attell FW (NABF Champ) 1217 pp (new)
10. Mike Gibbons MW (WBA Champ) 1199 pp (new)

Dropped out from prior year: Joe Jeannette (was #1 in 1915)
Tommy Burns (was #7)
Johnny Coulon (was #10)

NOTE: Attell was previously in the year-end pound-for-pound list from 1907 through 1913, inclusive, including five years in a row at #1, from 1908 through 1912. Ritchie and Gibbons are making their first appearance. Jack Johnson is the only fighter to make the list every year since its inception in 1907.

Comments: I think this is the first time someone has moved from the very top spot all the way out of the top 10. Again, the list is dominated by HWs and LWs which should be no surprise as these two division are two of three deepest in terms of talent and sheer number of fighters right now. The third one, the MW, has a bit more parity (all the way down to the top 20 or so) which reflects the fact that no one other than Gibbons has enough pp right now to qualify for the list. My take on this is that the deeper divisions will generate more fighters with higher PP values because of the quality of matchups available -- just about everyone in the top 10 in those divisions right now has 800 pp or more, which means even if a top guy loses a bout he's not going to fall that much. Contrast this with say the FLY division where a dominant guy like Wilde still has only about 900 pp and the second-rate guys are only around 400 or so, meaning if Wilde gets beat he drops to around 600-700 whereas there's not much to be gained by winning agains these guys with lower PPs. All this suggests it will take some time to develop more guys with higher rankings, and I think more upsets over time is what it takes to develop more fighters with higher PP numbers. Where there is a huge gap between the top rated guy and the top rated guy loses a couple of bouts, as happened with Attell in the FWs, it takes awhile for him to get the PPs back which is why Attell still has a ways to go in this pound-for-pound list even those he is already back as the top rated FW.

I guess what I am saying is right now it seems like a guy like Wilde is somewhat unfairly punished by the ratings system the way things have worked out, as he would not even make the top 20 despite his dominance. (In fact, if I was picking a fighter of the year for 1915, it would have to be Wilde who made five title defenses and won all by KO or TKO).

In fact, as of the year end of 1915, there were a record number of boxers with over 1000 pp, 22 and of these, 18 had 1100 pp or more. So I guess right there that suggests some degree of ratings inflation has occurred, whatever the reason. I expect as these guys get older and give points back to the pool that may change, but if you look at the LWs where Battling Nelson and Jewey Cooke just retired, the guys who have moved up and replaced them have at least as many and in some cases, even more PPs than those two when they were in their prime 5-10 years ago.

None of this, by the way, should be meant as a criticism of the rankings system, but it's interesting to see how it all plays out after about 10 years' worth of observations running a Universe with multiple divisions.

For me, I will take a few days' break over the new year before cranking up the bouts for 1916, which I hope to try to finish before the end of January -- we'll see if that "bold prediction" comes true or not because each time it's taking longer and longer it seems as the number of active fighters to track is still gradually increasing each year. I also plan to continue with the Dempsey and Tunney career tracking features, the "Champs or Chumps" comparisons, plus a couple of other ad hoc posts on certain topics relating to this Universe every now and then.

[mh2365]

Where did you start your guys out PP wise ... I don't have anyone over 1000.

[JCWeb]

... so whatever the existing guys were rated at under the "old" rankings system, that's where they started. All the new guys come in at 200 (or I reset them if the numbers aren't right as has been discussed on another thread). I have done nothing to mess with the db.ini file or whatever the heck it's called. If you go back to the initial series of posts here in this thread you can see what the pps were like after the first year or so under the new rankings system, which was installed as part of patch 2.0.27 I think. As I recall at that point in time it was fairly unusual to see someone in the 1000 range, which is obviously not the case now. The uni in progress of course started with TB 1 (starting around 1880 or so) and whatever rating system was used then, updated by the initial TB 2 (I think around 1900 or so in my Uni) and then the patch which I think came in around 1906 or 1907 when I first started with this thread almost a year ago now.

Now, mh, I have looked at the guys in your Uni (you posted it here awhile back and I downloaded it to paste in new guys) which is much bigger than mine and noticed you have alot of guys rated "1" whom I would consider "stiffs" -- whether this drives the ratings down or not I don't know, but the likely explanation is either that or the fact that I have covered more territory time-wise to see these purported "ratings inflation" develop over a longer period of time (I am looking at around 35 years worth of boxing history since day 1 here) -- maybe it's a combination of the two factors, just don't know but I can only report what I have observed.

[CONN CHRIS]

PP are no longer a strict measure of fighter value; just a means by which the rankings are adjusted after results come in. (Which may well be a distinction without difference.)

I have nearly 9,000 fighters active and am in the seventh year of uni time. Fighters range from single digits to 1,900 plus PP for me.

Christopher

[JCWeb]

I think that the top performers, points-wise, in my Uni, both Attell and Langford, were closing in on 1700 before they lost their World titles.

One final thought on why there might be a difference between one Uni and another -- in addition to possible different starting off points, it could have something to do with how you schedule your matchups. I for one hardly ever use the autoscheduler function and hand-pick each and every bout I want to see even though I may wind up auto-simming or fast-forwarding the bouts. In general, that means I match up guys with similar ranking positions together. I think Chris in that lenghty thread where he described how he did his Uni indicated a somewhat similar approach, at least for the top 30 or so rated fighters. So, again, not being a ratings expert, perhaps how you schedule your match-ups may have something to do with the extent to which you see these rankings shoot up over time.

As an aside, I have always been fascinated by these statistical measures of performance ever since years ago I bought a book by Arpad Elo, the guy who set up the international chess federation's and US chess ratings system called the Rating of Chessplayers Past and Present where he compared guys like Fischer to the all-time greats like Morphy, Lasker, Capablanca and Alekhine...

Anyway, back to the mundane but enjoyable task of setting up the bouts for the initial month in the next year of my Uni, January 1916. So far it looks like both the Gibbons brothers will be in action defending their WBA title belts ...

[JCWeb]

Before picking up on the "Champs or Chumps" feature, thought I would update with a recap on the history of the HW Division followed by the LHs and MWs (which is where I left off with that feature). This will simply recap the roll of World Champions and also highlight some records of notable achievements.

(drum roll) WBA HW Champions

Tommy Chandler 1880-82, 1888
John L Sullivan 1882, 1882-83, 1888, 1890-91
George "Old Chocolate" Godfrey 1882, 1891
Joe Coburn 1883-84
Peter Jackson 1884-88, 1891, 1897-99
Jimmy Elliot 1888
John C Heehan 1888-89
Jake Knifton 1889-90
Bob Fitzsimmons 1890
Peter Courtney 1891-92
James J. Corbett 1892-96, 1899-1901
Dick Matthews 1896-97
Bob Armstrong 1901-02
James Jeffries 1902-05
Jack Johnson 1905-07, 1909-10
Phila Jack O'Brien 1907-08
Tommy Burns 1908-09
Sam Langford 1910-14
Joe Jeannette 1914-15
Sam McVey 1915 -

Total of 20 different champions over a 35-year time span.

All-Time Lists

Number of Bouts

Peter Jackson, Jack Johnson 85
Jimmy Elliot 78
Joe Coburn 76

Active: Johnson 85, Mike Schreck 60, Burns & Langford 59

Number of Wins

Jack Johnson 70
Peter Jackson 68
Bob Fitzsimmons 58
James Corbett 57

Active: Johnson 78 Langford 51 Burns 44 Jeannette and McVey 42

Most KOs

Peter Jackson 54
Jack Johnson 51
James Jeffries 46
Jake Knifton 43
Joe Choynski and Tom Sharkey 42

Active: Johnson 51 Langford 39 Burns 31

Most Consecutive Wins

Peter Jackson 39
Joe Choynski 26
Bob Fitzsimmons 25
Jack Johnson 22
Sam Langford 20

Active: Johnson 22 Langford 20 Wills 18 Jeannette and Willard 17

Most Consecutive KOs

Bob Fitzsimmons 17 (twice)
Joe Choynski and Harry Wills 16
Jack Johnson 15

Active: Wills 16 Johnson 15 Jeannette 13 Dempsey 12 Willard 10

Obviously, it will be interesting to see if Dempsey can move into the elite company of the all-time list by keeping his KO streak alive. NOTE: Numbers for Fitz and Choynski include a number of bouts versus LHs.

[JCWeb]

Cow Palace, San Francisco, Feb. 26, 1916 - Gene Tunney, the hot LH prospect known as the "Fighting Marine" was back in action as part of a huge 25-bout extravaganza leading up to the featured world FW title bout between Johnny Kilbane and Abe Attell. Tunney's opponent was one Rufus Davis, another hand-picked tomato can with a less than stellar 0-4 record, whose last two losses by KOs to the likes of Bob Sweeney and Chuck "The Hoosier Playboy" Wiggins indicate Gene should have no problems. Thus, Tunney enters the ring as a heavy favorite not only to win the bout but to keep his KO record intact.

Round one, Tunney starts out more cautiously than usual, landing a couple of early shots but generally contend to box with his opponent. Two minutes into the bout, however, he lands a solid cross to drop Davis on his back. Davis is able to stumble to his feet, covering up and clinching while being pinned against the ropes for the rest of round one.

Round two, Tunney takes a much more aggressive approach, not wanting for his opponent to clear his head from the first round knockdown. He works the inside, pressuring Davis who gradually gives way. Then, a big uppercut seemingly comes out of nowhere thirty seconds into the round and Davis slumps to the canvas. He tries to regain his feet at the count of 7, but lurches back down and is counted out. KO for Tunney at 0:40 of round two.

Tunney's record climbs to 4-0 (4) and 350 pp, but it will be several months before he is back in action, probably due to some military training exercises.

[JCWeb]

The update on Tunney makes a nice segway to the LH Division Recap, using the same format as the prior HW post. Here's the list of LH World champs:

Bob Fitzimmons 1885-86
Joe Butler 1886-90
Joe Choynski 1890-1901
Phila Jack O'Brien 1901-03, 1904, 1905-07, 1910-12
George Gardner 1903, 1904, 1908-10
Charlie Haghey 1903-04
John Wille 1904-05
Jack Root 1905
Jack "Twin" Sullivan 1908
Leo Houck 1910
Jack Dillon 1912-15
Tommy Gibbons 1915-

12 different champions in 30 years, alot fewer than with the HWs although action has picked up after just three different champs in the first 16 years.

All-time records

Most bouts

Phila Jack O'Brien 78
Joe Butler 76
Jack Sullivan 69
George Gardner 67
Charlie Haghey 64

Active: O'Brien 78 Sullivan 69 third is TC Chuck Carrick 57 Leo Houck 52

Most wins

Phila Jack O'Brien 62
Joe Butler 56
George Gardner 50
Jack Sullivan 43
Billy Stift 40

Active: O'Brien 62 Sullivan 43 Houck 33 Dillon 30

Most KOs

Joe Butler 35
George Gardner 32
Billy Stift 30
Phila Jack O'Brien 27
Jack Root 25

Active: O'Brien 27 Carpentier 21 Dave Smith 20 Sullivan 19

Most Consecutive Wins

Jack Dillon and Phila Jack O'Brien (tie) 19
George Gardner 18
Georges Carpentier 17
Dave Smith, Joe Butler 16

Active: Dillon, O'Brien 19 Carpentier 17 Dave Smith 16

Most Consecutive KOs

Mike McTigue and Georges Carpentier 14
Billy Stift 11
George Gardner and Dave Smith 10

Active: Carpentier and McTigue 14 Dave Smith 10

Mike McTigue, who, like Dempsey, has started off his career with a string of knockout wins, needs just one more, in his 15th bout, to set the all-time LH record.

[JCWeb]

Just recently ran off Mike McTigue's 15th bout where he was going for the aforementioned consecutive KO record for the LH Division and he was up against a really tough opponent, aging ex-Champ Jack "Twin" Sullivan, who was at the tail-end of his career. Sullivan posed a real challenge for McTigue, who seemed to make little headway through the first six rounds of a scheduled 10-rounder, then broke through for his first KD in the 7th followed by two more in the next round before an 18th round stoppage pushed his record up to a perfect 15-0, all by KOs. Sullivan, his opponent, hung up the gloves immediately after the bout.

However, upon checking, I found that the REAL LH record for consecutive KOs is 17 by "Ruby Robert" Fitzsimmons, which was accidentally mislabeled as a HW record since Fitz retired as a HW. He actually rang up his first 17 LH opponents inside the distance, almost all of them stiffs ... so McTigue has to score three more KOs to beat that mark, which may be tough as he is due to step up in class in his next few bouts...

On to the MW update (followed by another edition of "Champs or Chumps" next post.

Heading into 1916 action, there have been 14 different MW WBA champions. Here is the honor roll:

NP Jack Dempsey 1884, 1885-97
George LaBlanche 1884-85, 1885
Mike Donovan 1885
Tommy Ryan 1897-98, 1899-1900, 1904, 1905-06, 1906-07
Charles Kid McCoy 1898-99, 1900-04, 1906, 1909
Frank Craig 1904
Cyclone Johnny Thompson 1904-05, 1910-11, 1912-13
Kid Locke 1906
Stanley Ketchel 1907-09, 1910
Billy Papke 1909-10, 1911, 1913-14
Hugo Kelly 1911-12
Joe Thomas 1912
Frank Mantell 1913
Mike Gibbons 1914-

NP Dempsey's 12- year reign is the longest for any WBA champion in any division, and Ryan is thus far the only fighter to hold the WBA belt in the same weight division five different times (i.e., regaining the belt four times).

All-time Records

Most Bouts

Tommy Ryan 86
Charles Kid McCoy 71
NP Jack Dempsey 70
Kid Locke 59
Hugo Kelly 57

Active: Locke 59 Cyclone Thompson 54 Paddy Levin 48 Frank Klaus and Sailor Burke 47

Most Wins

Tommy Ryan 73
NP Jack Dempsey 63
Charles Kid McCoy 54
Mike Donovan 49
Johnny Reagan 40

Active: Billy Papke and Cyclone Thompson 34 Eddie McGoorty 33

Most KOs

Tommy Ryan 60
NP Jack Dempsey 55
Charles Kid McCoy 46
Stanley Ketchel 33
Johnny Reagan 32

Active: McGoorty 28 Papke 23 Thompson 22 Sailor Burke 20

Most Consecutive Wins

NP Jack Dempsey 45
Mike Donovan 23
Charles Kid McCoy 19
Tommy Ryan 17
Harry Greb, Les Darcy, Jeff Smith 16

Active: Greb, Darcy, Smith 16 Papke, Frank Mantell 15

Most Consecutive KOs

Tommy Ryan 17
Stanley Ketchel 15
Les Darcy 13
Charles Kid McCoy 12
NP Jack Dempsey 12

Active: Darcy 13 Eddie McGoorty and Albert Crouse 10

next up, back to "Champs or Chumps" featuring the MW Division.

[JCWeb]

Here's the list of RL MW Champs for the same time period compared to the results for my Uni:

NP Jack Dempsey RL: Jul 1884 Uni: May 1884
Bob Fitzsimmons RL: Jan. 1891 Uni: Not Rated at MW
Charles Kid McCoy RL: Dec. 1897 Uni: Jan. 1898
Tommy Ryan RL: Oct. 1898 Uni: Jun. 1897
Stanley Ketchel RL: May 1908 Uni: Oct. 1907
Billy Papke RL: Sep. 1908 Uni: May 1909
Frank Klaus RL: March 1913 Uni: Not Yet
George Chip RL: Oct. 1913 Uni: Not Yet
Al McCoy RL: Apr. 1914 Uni: Not Yet
Mike O'Dowd RL: Nov. 1917 Uni: Too Soon
Johnny Wilson RL: May 1920 Uni: Too Soon
Harry Greb RL: Aug. 1923 Uni: Too Soon

So far, the only real "miss" has been Klaus, who is well past his prime and unlikely to re-emerge as a title contender. Ryan ascended earlier than IRL. partially because I did not have Fitz rated at MW. The fact that Fitz was not rated at MW also meant a much longer (a record 12-year reign) for NP Jack Dempsey as world MW king. Ketchel, as IRL, had a meteroic rise but also an all-too quick end to his turbulent career. Biggest disappointment thus far of any of these guys has been George Chip, who has struggled in my Uni and not even been able to snap a USBA or NABF belt. Al McCoy has also struggled, though not as badly as Chip, and there's at least an outside possibility he could emerge on the winning end of a WBA title bout. Too soon to tell for the three newer guys, although Greb's performance thus far has the mark of a sure-fire champion which may push the other two (O'Dowd and Wilson) into the background.

[JCWeb]

Dateline Vancouver, BC Exhibition Gardens, March 18, 1916 -- Highly regarded HW prospect Jack Dempsey is featured going for his 13th KO win in a row, all at the start of his career, in the main support bout for the NABF FW title clash. Dempsey steps into the ring against journeyman Marty "Kid" Cutler, who enters the bout with a 15-11 (6) mark, having demonstrated some power but also a suspect chin as he has been stopped three times previously.

Dempsey comes into the bout in great shape, and he quickly forces his opponent into a neutral corner in round one, pummeling him on the inside with a powerful uppercut. He then lands several other blows, one of which opens a cut above the left eye of the hapless Cutler. Midway through the opening stanza, the "Manassa Mauler" finds the mark with a vicious shot just below the ribcage that sends Cutler sprawling to the canvas. Cutler, shaken, arises to his feet at the count of 9, and he desperately attempts to cover up for the remainder of the round. Dempsey continues stalking his opponent, finally connecting with a wicked cross with just a few seconds left in round one. Cutler goes down and is counted out, after the bell.

Dempsey by KO at the end of round one. His outstanding record is now 13-0 (all by KO) and 596 pp. The KO streak remains intact, and a couple of more bouts and he will qualify for a ranking.

[JCWeb]

April 19. 1916 -- Cow Palace, San Francisco -- Unbeaten LHW prospect Mike McTigue stepped into the limelight tonite in a bout for the vacant NABF Title against Bob "KO" Sweeney. McTigue's unbeaten mark and a 15-bout KO win streak was on the line against a very difficult, highly regarded opponent. After a couple of cautious opening rounds, Sweeney opened up in the third and caught McTigue with a vicious hook that sent the hopeful crashing to the canvas, the first time ever McTigue had been down. He was back up at the count of nine but seemed a little groggy and covered up to get through the round, exhibiting some telltale signs of swelling around the right eye at the end of the round. Sweeney tried unsuccessfully to follow up in round four, but by now McTigue seemed fully recovered and was giving ground grudingly. Sweeney, sensing he was ahead on points, eased up a bit in the middle rounds, and this let McTigue back into the action. A mouse began forming around Sweeney's right eye, further indications that McTigue was back on track. In round eight, though, Sweeney caught McTigue with a right hand that caused the Irishman's knees to buckle, but McTigue remained upright. Next round Sweeney delivers a devastating hook to the body but is cut above his left eye. Undeterred, Sweeney presses home with a devastating attack that leaves McTigue helpless against the ropes. The ref calls a halt to it. TKO in round 9 for Sweeney to capture the NABF belt. McTigue suffers his first career loss -- perhaps he overextended himself in seeking a title belt too early in his career?

A tremendous bout, nonetheless. Fight of the year candidate.

[Ric915]

Sounds like it was one hell of a brawl..

[JCWeb]

Dateline May 13, 1916 -- Briggs Stadium in Detroit: Jack Dempsey climbs into the ring seeking his 14th consecutive victory against George "One Round" Davis, a fairly accomplished but limited "2" rated boxer with plenty of power but not much defense. (Davis has managed to live up to his moniker twice -- once with a TKO in the first of a TC but more recently as a one-round KO victim of highly regarded prospect, Fred Fulton.) He did manage a TKO in 2 of Al Palzer, who was ranked in the top 20 a couple of years back, en route to compiling a decent 11-5-1 (7) record. So, not likely to be a pushover ...

The bell sounds and Davis gets off first with a big hook but Dempsey, undaunted, presses forward, landing a few shots here and there. "One Round" manages to survive the first versus Dempsey, but it was clearly the Manassa man's round.

Round two, Davis is still wary of Dempsey's power, and Dempsey sets up Davis with a jab, forcing him into the ropes, where he follows up with a right and a combination of shots. Davis manages to survive the round but looks weary already.

Dempsey lets his hands go at the start of round three, nailing Davis with a straight right hand. "One Round" counters with a three-punch combo, but Dempsey comes back with a big left hand followed by a right uppercut just before the bell sounds.

More mayhem in round four as Dempsey continues to stalk his opponent, landing a cross, picking off some shots by Davis, followed by a crippling left hook, a hard jab, and an uppercut. A wobbly-legged Davis retreats to the neutral corner, where he is nailed by a Dempsey hook as the round ends. Big round for Dempsey, but still no knockdowns.

Round five sees Dempsey take a bit of a breather as Davis starts the action with an uppercut. Dempsey responds with an uppercut of his own, and continues plodding forward. Davis tries to jab, but once again Dempsey gets in a good shot right before the bell that causes Davis to crumble to the canvas, but he manages to beat the count.

The sixth starts with Dempsey looking to follow up on the KD at the end of the previous round. Davis, however, is backpedaling and keeping his distance. The Manassa Mauler closes the distance and finds the range with a cross and a three-punch combo, staggering his opponent. Another big uppercut has Davis reeling, and then the ref, Harry Krause, steps in to call a halt to the proceedings.

Dempsey by TKO at 2:00 of round 6. The KO and win streaks remain intact after 14 bouts. Dempsey's record is now 14-0 (14), with 631 pp. One more bout and he qualifies for a ranking.