Historical database issues go here!

[sdcrazyman]

i started a historical 2021 season and i noticed that the entire position player roster for the mississippi braves (Pearl Braves) were free agents, also a handful of Cubs minor leaguers (looks like they came from Iowa (des Moines Cubs) but could be tennessee(Knoxville Smokies) lol ...Christopher Morel, Ian Miller, Abiatal Avelino, etc...), guys from the Lehigh Valley IronPigs(alllentown) , Hudson Valley Renegades(Wappingers falls) etc...lots of guys from non city teams.


also this one makes me laugh,i believe the Texas Rangers play in the Dallas-Fort Worth Area in a city called Arlington, Texas. They do not play in Texas, Georgia as the game suggests.lol ...i also notice it struggles some times picking the right state if a city like springfield or peoria is in multiple states. maybe adding a state/providence to the data base to go with city?


Update: i noticed when looking at the real stats of those free agents that the pointer tip team name wasnt popping up on the team abbreviation for the non city teams. however once i corrected the city name and reimported the player the tool tip shows the team name... for example changed the Des Moines Cubs to the Iowa Cubs and imported Aveliab01 and now when the mouse hovers over the abbreviation IoCu in his Real Life Stats it now has a little box that sats Iowa Cubs. and since i didnt delete the original i checked the original and still nothing when you hover the mouse pointer. i took screen shots but i do not remember how to post them on here..ugh... side note i do find it interesting how the new import has much different ratings than the original (is that due to the talent change randomness setting?)

[sdcrazyman]

also have noticed in a historical 2021 season and a historical 2022 season i have started that the yankees have the tampa yankees (TAM) instead of the Tampa Tarpoons (TATA) for their Florida State(low A South east) league team, it is the same actual ball club (they changed names in 2017) but im not sure they are getting their players because of the wrong team id, that along with the Hudson Valley High A team and the disaster that is the complex leagues (all the teams identify as Gulf Coast or Arizona League but the database says FCL or ACL for the 21 and 22 seasons) is why the yankees only have about 100 players in their organization and most everyone else has 175-250 players


also in the FSL the Fort Myers Mighty Mussels is spelled with only one L (it spelled Mussells in historical game, but mussels on the oi files and in real life) so the Logos, caps and uniforms dont load ,,,

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by sdcrazyman

also have noticed in a historical 2021 season and a historical 2022 season i have started that the yankees have the tampa yankees (TAM) instead of the Tampa Tarpoons (TATA) for their Florida State(low A South east) league team, it is the same actual ball club (they changed names in 2017) but im not sure they are getting their players because of the wrong team id, that along with the Hudson Valley High A team and the disaster that is the complex leagues (all the teams identify as Gulf Coast or Arizona League but the database says FCL or ACL for the 21 and 22 seasons) is why the yankees only have about 100 players in their organization and most everyone else has 175-250 players


also in the FSL the Fort Myers Mighty Mussels is spelled with only one L (it spelled Mussells in historical game, but mussels on the oi files and in real life) so the Logos, caps and uniforms dont load ,,,

The city issues with Lehigh Valley, Hudson Valley etc are actually because it look like things are coded to take the team names from the wrong column in the db. We'll have to take a closer look at that and see if it'll be better to fix up the code or to fix up the db.

Either way, this is on the list of things to work on now and so you should see this fixed in the next patch or two.

[LansdowneSt]

Caleb Johnson (johnsca01) (johnso001cal) has been corrected to William Johnson. The IDs and stats look good - but SABR realized he was not Caleb but, in fact, William so this is just a first name correction in the db. It's noted on this post too:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...ostcount=25177

bRef link:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=johnso001cal

EDIT: Some of the bio info changes too - birthdate, etc.

[sdcrazyman]

awesome thanks...

also, i know its not a bug and there is probably a better spot to ask but wondering if there is a way when turning a retired player into a coach or when importing a player (retiring them and then turning them into a coach) to get their manager stats up to that point?

or maybe better yet when importing someone with a 99 lahman ID, they skip player free agency and get put into the personnel free agent section with their manager history already listed.

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Try the minor league code "taylor004ben" for importing him. Make sure on the individual player import wizard, you check the box for including players in the minor league database. The MLB IDs from bRef for NeL players don't yet work in OOTP. Even the Minor League IDs may not fully align. This was the old list that Spritze gave me for importing players using custom Minor League Codes (though Lukas may be migrating them over to better align with baseball-reference soon (or maybe he has)). In either case, Ben Taylor's code on this Excel sheet aligns with bRef.

So it appears he imports with the taylor004ben code but he has no real stats history and his ratings for the 1922 season are way too low. He hit .373 with a .515 slg and .420 OBP in 407 plate appearances and his ratings on a 20/80 scale are 25 contact/20 gap power/30 eye discipline. I'm importing him in a league set up with 1 year recal on and weaken batters set at 120.

And just curious if anyone is aware of other substantial NeL players that aren't importing?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by congokurtz

So it appears he imports with the taylor004ben code but he has no real stats history and his ratings for the 1922 season are way too low. He hit .373 with a .515 slg and .420 OBP in 407 plate appearances and his ratings on a 20/80 scale are 25 contact/20 gap power/30 eye discipline. I'm importing him in a league set up with 1 year recal on and weaken batters set at 120.

And just curious if anyone is aware of other substantial NeL players that aren't importing?

Are you sure you're on the latest patch?

I do not see any issues with him now in the db when I look him up, all of his stats seem to be properly linked.

This sounds more like how he was in previous years before we fixed him up (he had some id mismatch issues).

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Are you sure you're on the latest patch?

I do not see any issues with him now in the db when I look him up, all of his stats seem to be properly linked.

This sounds more like how he was in previous years before we fixed him up (he had some id mismatch issues).

This reminds me of the issue I had with some NeL'ers in 23 using direct imports. See this post:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...&postcount=115

Actionjackson and I tried to sort out the cause and he believed there was a shell listing for Mules (and so this would also apply to Ben) in the MLB db that caused the game to look there and pull that largely blank populated one instead of the more complete MiLB db version of the NeL'er. So, if there is a Ben Taylor with that Historical Minors code in the MLB db, it might be loading first and giving such an empty "shell" result before it gets to the Ben Taylor in the MiLB one that you checked, Lukas.

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Are you sure you're on the latest patch?

I do not see any issues with him now in the db when I look him up, all of his stats seem to be properly linked.

This sounds more like how he was in previous years before we fixed him up (he had some id mismatch issues).

Yes, I'm using the latest patch.

And just to be clear, the game does not automatically import him with historical minors turned on. If I start a historical league with minors on in 1921 he does not get imported, nor does he get imported in the off-season of the years he played for the ABCs.

When I individually import him using the code you provided he has no real history nor do his ratings match up to his RL stats. The import however does have a nickname for him as Old Reliable. Kind of ironic that his db file isn't reliable at all

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by congokurtz

Yes, I'm using the latest patch.

And just to be clear, the game does not automatically import him with historical minors turned on. If I start a historical league with minors on in 1921 he does not get imported, nor does he get imported in the off-season of the years he played for the ABCs.

When I individually import him using the code you provided he has no real history nor do his ratings match up to his RL stats. The import however does have a nickname for him as Old Reliable. Kind of ironic that his db file isn't reliable at all

It doesn't solve the import problem as I think that remains an issue with it grabbing a shell version before it gets to the correct version... but I backed up OOTP earlier in time and started a sim in 1905. Ben Taylor appears in 1909 - when his NeL career started. In my game he retired at age 25 (no injury) so his ratings may still be low but he is there. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be there in your 1920 starting game though. But I at least got him to appear. When you search "Ben Taylor" in the upper right search bar does he appear at all (I assume you imported history up to 1920)?

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

It doesn't solve the import problem as I think that remains an issue with it grabbing a shell version before it gets to the correct version... but I backed up OOTP earlier in time and started a sim in 1905. Ben Taylor appears in 1909 - when his NeL career started. In my game he retired at age 25 (no injury) so his ratings may still be low but he is there. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be there in your 1920 starting game though. But I at least got him to appear. When you search "Ben Taylor" in the upper right search bar does he appear at all (I assume you imported history up to 1920)?

You assumed correctly, history imported up until 1920. The only Ben Taylor that appears when letting the game automatically import players is a white relief pitcher who pitched one season in 1912 for the Reds. When I do an individual import with the league code provided earlier, he shows up as Ben "Old Reliable" Taylor with no real historical stats and horrible ratings. If you look at his 3 seasons with the ABCs in the NeL the guy was hitting in the high .300s

[congokurtz]

I did a little more investigative work on Hall of Famer Ben Taylor. OOTP 23 also didn't import him automatically, but then tried OOTP 22 and started a historical league in 1920 w minors on and a Leroy Ben Taylor does appear with the same real historical stats of Hall of Famer Ben Taylor, who played for the ABCs from 1920 to 1924. So I copied his Historical minors ID which is taylor049ler and pasted it into the individual historical import in OOTP 24 with a season start of 1922, and it imported a player named Leroy Taylor, but it's not the great hitting Hall of Famer Ben Taylor who played for the ABCs. It's a mediocre player who started in the NeL in 1925 and played through 1936. Something fishy is going on with the Taylor's

Btw, if it's relevant I'm on a Mac

[Lukas Berger]

I definitely do not get what's going on with Taylor, given that there's only one player with his id's in the db and all looks correct for him.

We'll have to debug this.

[uruguru]

Hall of Famer Joe Morgan (historical id 'morganjo02') shows his birthplace as Iron Springs, AZ. This is incorrect. He was born in Bonham, TX. This error was introduced sometime since OOTP 23.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Hall of Famer Joe Morgan (historical id 'morganjo02') shows his birthplace as Iron Springs, AZ. This is incorrect. He was born in Bonham, TX. This error was introduced sometime since OOTP 23.

This is set correctly in the db, so not sure what might be going on here. Most likely some sort of importer bug for the dev team to check out.

[BaseballMan]

Can we get a separate database with the real historical teams.
I get the historical setup for 19th century leagues is to make it easier for new players or historical/fictional players. But when you dont use the actual historical teams and rosters it becomes fictional setup anyway.

I like to teams in my leagues being the correct ones.
Heck i will replay a season if i missed making a roster change on the last day of the season.
I thought about just adding the players i need to my transaction list and add the teams.
Then you have to deal with the schedules, ballparks etc.

You cant import the teams you need cause 5 teams from 1884 dont exist in the game's database.
I am still using ootp23 as it makes historical play for 19th century leagues with real rosters so much easier.

Thing is that an expansion with the correct teams, players and transactions can be done.
You just need the transactions to match.
You don't want to release a player that would leave a team with not enough players.
To be honest i use my transactions list and have hardly ever ran into not enough players.
Unless injuries are turned up.

Still transactions aren't my main concern.
Just having correct teams would work.
The ad says "Manage any MLB franchise from any point in history"
How do i do that if 5 teams from 1884 are not even there?
Sorry i guess im just frustrated that i cant play ootp 24 till i get to the sim year 1901

[asrivkin]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, exactly, or if this is a consequence of how I'm playing, so I'm looking for clarity.

I started my sim in 2020 with OOTP 21 set in 1915. I imported Oscar Charleston late in 1915. All his real-life stats through his career were shown as being from the AAA or AA level, and are still shown that way through OOTP 23.

I imported Louis Santop and Cristobal Torriente with OOTP 22 as the game was in 1918, and neither one of them even has the tab for real-life stats.

Charles Corbett came in via the first-year draft in December 1920 with OOTP 23, and it shows his 1922 stats with Pittsburgh as MLB, but not 1921, 1923, or anything else (see attached).

So, count me as mostly puzzled here. I'd assumed I was somehow being inconsistent with the imports, but I didn't have anything to do with Corbett's entry to the player universe. If I can post-facto add the real-life stats to the players that are missing them that'd be great, but mostly I'm just looking for a reality check here...

I also note that for maximum inconvenience I'm still on OOTP 23, though I'm going to upgrade to 24 once my league is in a reasonable stopping point...

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

I'm not sure if this is a bug, exactly, or if this is a consequence of how I'm playing, so I'm looking for clarity.

I started my sim in 2020 with OOTP 21 set in 1915. I imported Oscar Charleston late in 1915. All his real-life stats through his career were shown as being from the AAA or AA level, and are still shown that way through OOTP 23.

I imported Louis Santop and Cristobal Torriente with OOTP 22 as the game was in 1918, and neither one of them even has the tab for real-life stats.

Charles Corbett came in via the first-year draft in December 1920 with OOTP 23, and it shows his 1922 stats with Pittsburgh as MLB, but not 1921, 1923, or anything else (see attached).

So, count me as mostly puzzled here. I'd assumed I was somehow being inconsistent with the imports, but I didn't have anything to do with Corbett's entry to the player universe. If I can post-facto add the real-life stats to the players that are missing them that'd be great, but mostly I'm just looking for a reality check here...

I also note that for maximum inconvenience I'm still on OOTP 23, though I'm going to upgrade to 24 once my league is in a reasonable stopping point...

Here's two discussions of some of the NeL tweaks made in OOTP23

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=4892772

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=337207

With the db having been consolidated in OOTP24, it's the hope of many that improvements to the stats and play of the NeL'ers will continue with each new edition of the game.

[asrivkin]

Thanks, LansdowneSt!

I guess I'll see how it goes when I do upgrade, but for what it's worth (and following myself up) it seems like the MLB/AAA distinction I'm seeing in OOTP 23 is at a player level not a team level--Ernest Gooden was also on that 1922 Pittsburgh Keystones team marked as MLB level and on a 1923 Detroit Stars team marked as MLB level, while Edgar Wesley and Turkey Stearnes were also on that Detroit team but it's marked as AAA level for them...

I don't know enough about databases to dig into it, but does that mean that the relevant databases are only queried when players enter the game as opposed to being re-imported each game year?

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

Thanks, LansdowneSt!

I guess I'll see how it goes when I do upgrade, but for what it's worth (and following myself up) it seems like the MLB/AAA distinction I'm seeing in OOTP 23 is at a player level not a team level--Ernest Gooden was also on that 1922 Pittsburgh Keystones team marked as MLB level and on a 1923 Detroit Stars team marked as MLB level, while Edgar Wesley and Turkey Stearnes were also on that Detroit team but it's marked as AAA level for them...

I don't know enough about databases to dig into it, but does that mean that the relevant databases are only queried when players enter the game as opposed to being re-imported each game year?

I think the db is loaded in Step 1 of the Historical Wizard so you are well past that as it happened in a previous version of the game. What kind of effect the change in their NeL stats (from being weighted as AAA to MLB) would have across saves (and now also across db types) isn't something I've seen discussed. You may be the first.