Historical database issues go here! - Page 10

actionjackson · 01-24-2022, 02:27 PM

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but can confirm the following:

Fed League players have no stats, aside from fielding stats for OF, and the positional breakdown of GP for each of the three OF spots in the FieldingOF.csv file. I have not yet downloaded the latest, and greatest patch, but that's the way things stood in the previous one. That's gonna involve a ton of work, so it's probably an OOTP23, and possibly an OOTP24 thing.

However, I love the fact that SB totals, and percentages were put in for the American Association between 1882 and 1885 inclusively, and the Union Association (only existed in 1884) in OOTP22. This is a huuuge improvement. I've got a 35 season Random Debut Historical game going in OOTP21 that I'm really fond of, so I'm hoping to stay with it, and that's why I haven't tackled OOTP22 much at all. That must've been a ton of work. Kudos to those that spotted it, and even more so, those that fixed it. Sorry for not noticing until now, but I've been wrapped up in OOTP21.

Thank you everybody for being incredible! I have some experience with other baseball sims, and two things, among others, stand out here...The huge gap in quality level of the game, and the customer service response when issues are found that need fixing. Awesome.

Lukas Berger · 01-24-2022, 03:32 PM

Is the Fed League thing a change from how it was previously? I didn't think we even particularly included the Fed League. Though I can always get a little confused which leagues we do and don't include in the early years, there are so many

thehef · 01-24-2022, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Is the Fed League thing a change from how it was previously? I didn't think we even particularly included the Fed League. Though I can always get a little confused which leagues we do and don't include in the early years, there are so many

The Federal League is included in OOTP for 1914 and 1915, the only two years of its Major League existence. (It also existed for the 1913 season as a minor league, before it declared itself a "Major" league.)

Note: It is included in OOTP as a "minor" league, meaning you have to enable minors to have it included. However, on the historical wizard panel 1, "Import real Negro Leagues (1920-1950) and minor leagues (1915+)" is mislabled. It should read "...1914+" since that's when OOTP first brings in the Fed Lg.

actionjackson · 01-24-2022, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Is the Fed League thing a change from how it was previously? I didn't think we even particularly included the Fed League. Though I can always get a little confused which leagues we do and don't include in the early years, there are so many

The players from the National Association, the American Association, the Union Association, and the Players League are all fully done statistically, in the database. The stolen bases were the final piece for the AA from 1882-1885, and the UA in it's one year of existence. IBB, SF, and RBI aren't there for some early seasons, but those numbers are completely non-essential, and quite cosmetic. Filling in the gap, for the sake of filling in the gap if you get my drift. The Federal League players stats are kind of one sixth in there already (half the defensive stats, with nothing else), and all of the players are in the Master.csv file. Let me emphasize that I am not in favour of changing the league structure to get any of these four leagues in the game, at all. I'm merely in favour of giving the players their full statistical profiles.

I would say the FL was a more competitive league than the UA was, and it was much more stable. Freddy Dunlap absolutely hammered the UA with his bat, in 1884. In terms of league stability, the NA was terrible, but, we need the players from it, to get back to 1871, so there's no doubt they should be there. The AA was very stable, as upstart leagues go, so it's players definitely belong. The UA was a jumbled mess of in season departures, foldings etc, and folded after a year, but it's players are in there. The PL was stable, until the owners broke it after the first year. I believe it was the players' first attempt at forming a union, under Monte Ward, but the owners blew it up real good. Can't remember how. If anything, it's the player numbers from the Union Association that should be out, but I wouldn't want that, and they're already in there anyway.

My memory's fuzzy, but, like you, I seem to recall something to do with the FL being left out as a design decision. Now that I think about it, I think it was the league structure being left out, which is absolutely the right call.

The thing is, the FL (more specifically FL only) guys are all still in the Master.csv file, so they enter...Well...Statistically naked, OF defense aside. How to cut them out is a very tough nut to crack. What do you do with the straddlers of the AL/NL and the FL, like Dutch Zwilling, Bernie Kauff, Joe Tinker, Mordecai Brown, and many others? Can't cut them out altogether. You'd need to alter the Master.csv file, but you'd have to be really, really careful about who you yank, and who you leave in. Again, my argument would be that the league structure should never change from having the two subleagues (AL and NL), but I think the FL players should be fully equipped to compete.

It's no skin off my nose, as I'll painstakingly fill guys stats in for my games, but others may not be happy with that, even if they don't notice it right now. I am a completist by nature, but if that's the design decision, so be it. Viva les FL players (just not the structure)!!!

Just as an aside, is it a sign that I might need help, given that I was able to remember all this stuff off the top of my head, without using any sources? Whoa! *Exit stage left, running from the folks with the straight jackets, screaming "You'll never take me alive!"*

actionjackson · 01-24-2022, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

The Federal League is included in OOTP for 1914 and 1915, the only two years of its Major League existence. (It also existed for the 1913 season as a minor league, before it declared itself a "Major" league.)

Note: It is included in OOTP as a "minor" league, meaning you have to enable minors to have it included. However, on the historical wizard panel 1, "Import real Negro Leagues (1920-1950) and minor leagues (1915+)" is mislabled. It should read "...1914+" since that's when OOTP first brings in the Fed Lg.

Thanks thehef! I went crawling around in the MiLB Batting.csv file and I was able to pull them all out by team in ascending order of MiLB IDs. Just need to work on the numbers, but it's an excellent starting point for what I'm trying to do.

Garlon · 01-26-2022, 09:39 AM

Regarding the Federal League, we should keep things the way they are. The fielding stats should remain to allow players to have fielding eligibility, but the batting and pitching stats should not be included in their major league stats as the competitive level of the Federal League was not the same as the NL or AL during those seasons and those players were not playing against the NL or AL.

The Union Association of 1884 should have been handled this way as well, but it was not. The Union Association should never have been considered a major league. There are very few players from that league who ever played at all or even a full season after 1884.

Garlon · 01-26-2022, 09:54 AM

actionjackson, this thread has some information about the updates to the files that were made last year for the game.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=326065

actionjackson · 01-28-2022, 12:40 PM

Whoa! That is a comprehensive list sir. Thanks for posting, and thanks for all that you do for the game.

Still gonna put the Fed Leaguers in my game, because it's only two years worth of data. I also don't believe the Fed League was any less competitive/balanced than the National Association or the Union Association, and both of those are in the game. The National Association was all over the place with foldings, and stars like Ross Barnes completely annihilating the competition, but we need it to get back to 1871, so it's in the game. Same thing for the Union Association, with the instability of the league, and competitive balance.

I just want all of the players in my Random Debut game to have the stats they compiled, in what were considered major league level (despite obvious talent level differences) leagues at the time they existed. If they played, and there are stats for them, I want them in my game. As I understand it, the Random Debut import process does some neutralization as players are imported into the draft pool. I know this because I've seen power hitters from the dead ball era have their HR numbers raised, and hitters from the crazy ball era have their HR numbers reduced, which leads to some cool, and competitive individual offensive, and pitching results. I would think the same thing will happen with the Fed League guys.

My baseball universe is quite unique really, so I don't think "reality" really applies to it. All my stats output, and strategy settings, are set to 1984 levels (neither dead ball, nor crazy ball, with pretty good pitching and defense, and piles of stolen bases mixed it for fun). I neutralize the weather, and stadium differences too. Just want to put everybody on an equal level, for comparison purposes across all eras. I certainly don't think two years worth of data for about 250 player seasons in each year is gonna affect a damn thing in the grand scheme of things (20,000ish historical players and counting, including Fed Leaguers).

I bring a few Negro Leaguers, and players from foreign leagues, via the Spritze DB, into the mix as well. It's a great hodge podge mix of baseball history for me, so if I have to do a little extra work to get the Fed Leaguers in, so be it. As I've said repeatedly, I don't want the league structure included in the game, just the players that played in it, to have their stats. Cheers.

Garlon · 01-29-2022, 12:54 AM

When I say the Federal League is not competitive, I am referring to the quality of play compared to the NL and AL in those seasons. Putting 8 teams worth of players into the NL and AL in those seasons with stats accumulated in different conditions is an issue if playing a historical game. This is not a real issue with random debut leagues.

The National Association is not an issue because it was the only league at that time and many of the players continued to play in the NL formed in 1876. The AA and NL had players moving between the leagues and the AA seems to have the same level of play compared to the NL from 1882-1891.

The Union Association is a different issue. This was never a major league and it ended up in some early baseball almanac and was basically referred to as a major league since then. If you look at the players in the UA in 1884 very few of them ever played in the NL or AA after that. Take a look at Dunlap's batting record after the 1884 season when he played in the NL. He was about a .270 hitter but was a .412 hitter in the UA. He was a good hitter in the NL with a 120 OPS+, but that season in the UA he had a 256 OPS+ and this says something about the comparative quality of talent of the league that season.

actionjackson · 01-30-2022, 11:21 PM

@Garlon: Found a big one for you. SB/CS for catchers is gummed up in the 2020 stats in OOTP22. I think the reason is that SB Attempts wound up in the SB column. Example:

Cubs in OOTP with their 2020 stats: Caratini: 6 SB, 2 CS, Contreras: 26 SB, 9 CS, Josh Phegley: 1 SB, 0 CS

Phegley's OOTP numbers will be correct because he didn't throw anyone out IRL, so it's 1 SB (1 attempt, so it's logged as 1 SB), 0 CS. Contreras RL: 17 SB, 9 CS, therefore 26 Attempts, which wound up in the SB column. Same with Caratini RL: 4 SB 2 CS, therefore 6 attempts, which wound up in the SB column, and so on. It's like that for every team I've checked so far. Should be an easy fix, but right now, you guys are gearing up for OOTP23, so it should probably wait until then.

Also, pitchers that played a position other than pitcher in the field in 2019 (i.e. Adam Kolarek, Michael Lorenzen, Vince Velasquez), are getting credit for fielding stats at those positions, which, of course, should be happening, but those fielding stats are then getting dumped into the pitcher's fielding stats at pitcher as well. Double dipping, in other words.

Both of these can happen really easily, through stuff being in one column rather than another, but the catcher one in particular, will really affect the catchers who throw out a lot of baserunners, as they'll look like they have pop gun arms. Won't really affect those with crappy CS%, but the big dogs will get penalized.

As for those leagues, now that I've had time to think about it, both sides make sense, however the FL stats (and probably the UA stats) should not be in the game because they will affect those that play straight up historical. For Random Debut though, it's nice to have them available to you. Obviously the choice should be made in favour of the straight historical players, because us Random Debut guys, while fervent in our passion for playing that way, are a niche subsection, within a niche subsection, probably within another niche subsection, of this game. The decision should always be made in favour of the majority. In this case, that's normal historical.

Maybe I can put out something that offers the FL guys, and possibly UA guys if they get scrubbed too, for those that play RD, or want those guys in there for whatever reason. I'll need your permission to use your complete revamping of the historical stats database of course. I could put it up on my Google drive, with a link in my signature or something. That way, it's completely optional for people to use if they care to. Just a thought. Let me know.

actionjackson · 01-31-2022, 12:37 AM

Also, BB-Ref has Jorge Alfaro SB against at 15 in 2020, but it's actually 16 according to his Fielding Game Logs, which makes the Catcher total for the year 31, and the Pitcher total for the year 31. Reported to BB-Ref. Not often you find one of those.

actionjackson · 01-31-2022, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Also, BB-Ref has Jorge Alfaro SB against at 15 in 2020, but it's actually 16 according to his Fielding Game Logs, which makes the Catcher total for the year 31, and the Pitcher total for the year 31. Reported to BB-Ref. Not often you find one of those.

Same for Gary Sanchez. BB-Ref has him at 13 SB Against. Should be 14.

Garlon · 01-31-2022, 04:47 AM

Nice work finding those mistakes. They will need to be corrected. The 2021 season needs to be updated and I have not worked on that yet. The fielding ratings process is a ton of work. We need to also get around to correcting all of the player ID issues across the files.

actionjackson · 01-31-2022, 05:09 AM

Also, catchers have no values for WP in 2016 and 2017.

EDIT: And 2014 and 2009 and 2010. And of course 1871 to 1953, but that's probably not gettable.

Garlon · 01-31-2022, 06:28 AM

For catcher defensive ratings we use E, PB, SB, and CS, but not WP since by definition a WP is attributed to the pitcher. While it may be true that some catchers save some WP this is not something we can sort out plus as you point out it is not available before 1954.

If the 2016 and 2017 statistics can be updated we should do that though.

Thanks

actionjackson · 02-01-2022, 01:42 AM

Hey Garlon. I'm not seeing CS inside the game in the real fielding tab for any of the catchers. There is a huge, massive caveat here though. I'm still in OOTP21, so this may already have been fixed. Why am I still in OOTP21? I'm reeeally attached to my 35-season Random Debut game. I have 22, but so far I've only taken a dip in the spreadsheets to try and do some troubleshooting, and clean them up for myself. I've removed columns that OOTP21 probably can't handle (your new defensive ratings in the Fielding file, and the XBT% addition for every hitter in the Batting file). I did use the OOTP22 files, without those columns, and everything has come in really well. 2020 stats, pitching, batting, and fielding? Check. They're beautiful. I doubt this is anything on my end.

Terrified to move my game to 22 because a different Master file might bork the random thing, and bring in guys that have already come through my game. If it is fixed, that's excellent, and I'll carry on with what I've got here. I take it that if SB/CS get left out, the C Ability, C Arm ratings take over, so that'll have to do for now. There's no difference between OOTP21 in the columns between A and P (SB), and Q (CS), in the Fielding file, so I'm baffled. Maybe the game has them, but it's not showing them? I'm at a loss. Every other defensive, hitting, and pitching stat right up to 2020 is in those tabs for each player. I'm self taught with these things, but I'm pretty good at it. Just checked players that came in earlier in the game, via the OOTP21 database, and ditto. Same thing for some Spritze catchers I brought in.

Brought in catcher Art Wilson to check on how my Fed Leaguers are coming along, and noticed it there. Noticed he didn't have his 12 PB with Pittsburgh in 1916, and have added those in. Then I brought in Yadier Molina, and same thing. Same with Josh Gibson from the Spritze DB. SB and CS are always in the P and Q columns of the Fielding file, so I'm really puzzled here. Perhaps the game has the SB/CS info somewhere else, and the player doesn't see it? Hmmm...Confused. Could you check in 22 for me, and see if this is the case, and let me know whether it matters or not?

LansdowneSt · 02-01-2022, 02:25 AM

Jim Britt (brittji01) needs his birthyear updated to 1849. The notion that he was 16 years old when pitching has been debunked. The dates in the attached link can also be found in ancestry.com for James E Britt from Kings County NY. No month or day but the year is generally accepted.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Jim_Britt

actionjackson · 02-01-2022, 12:49 PM

Just as an update on the CS thing Garlon. Just checked in games I had going in 16, 19, and XX, and it's the same thing. Zeroes across the board in that column. However, I was playing the 16 game with Neutralized Stats (which I abandoned after that, due to the lack of attention they were getting), and the CS numbers are in the Neutralized Fielding Stats for all catchers. That's bizarre. It means that they can be displayed in game, but for some reason, that is not happening with Real Fielding Stats.

Weird. Oops. I'm wrong about that. Some have it. The vast majority do not. I think the ones that do were imports from the Spritze DB, so my next test will look at that. Just checked a Josh Gibson Spritze DB guy, and he doesn't have CS numbers either, so it's probably unanimous, with a smattering of exceptions. Baffling.

actionjackson · 02-01-2022, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Jim Britt (brittji01) needs his birthyear updated to 1849. The notion that he was 16 years old when pitching has been debunked. The dates in the attached link can also be found in ancestry.com for James E Britt from Kings County NY. No month or day but the year is generally accepted.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Jim_Britt

Normally, when there's no birthdate the database treats the player as if he debuted in his age 21 or 22 season, and his birthday is assigned as May 5th, so in Britt's case his assigned birthday would be May 5th, 1851. Actually it's listed as May 5th, 1850, in the Master file, so his debut will happen in his age 22 season. Don't know where you're getting the age 16 thing, but I guarantee you, he won't debut until age 22.

LansdowneSt · 02-01-2022, 04:16 PM

Action,

Import the free agent Jim Britt (brittji01) at his rookie year of 1872. Her comes in as 16 because baseball scholars had the wrong Jim Britt. OOTP still has him at age 16 in 1872.

There is a birthdate in OOTP so it is not a case of a blank. It is the wrong birthdate is the point. I literally just imported him and I'm up to date on all the patches.

https://youtu.be/iQvKP1Nv9Nw

01-24-2022, 03:32 PM	#182
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,359	Is the Fed League thing a change from how it was previously? I didn't think we even particularly included the Fed League. Though I can always get a little confused which leagues we do and don't include in the early years, there are so many __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com PreOrder Out of the Park Baseball 26! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

01-31-2022, 05:09 AM	#194
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Also, catchers have no values for WP in 2016 and 2017. EDIT: And 2014 and 2009 and 2010. And of course 1871 to 1953, but that's probably not gettable. Last edited by actionjackson; 01-31-2022 at 05:14 AM.

01-24-2022, 02:27 PM	#181
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but can confirm the following: Fed League players have no stats, aside from fielding stats for OF, and the positional breakdown of GP for each of the three OF spots in the FieldingOF.csv file. I have not yet downloaded the latest, and greatest patch, but that's the way things stood in the previous one. That's gonna involve a ton of work, so it's probably an OOTP23, and possibly an OOTP24 thing. However, I love the fact that SB totals, and percentages were put in for the American Association between 1882 and 1885 inclusively, and the Union Association (only existed in 1884) in OOTP22. This is a huuuge improvement. I've got a 35 season Random Debut Historical game going in OOTP21 that I'm really fond of, so I'm hoping to stay with it, and that's why I haven't tackled OOTP22 much at all. That must've been a ton of work. Kudos to those that spotted it, and even more so, those that fixed it. Sorry for not noticing until now, but I've been wrapped up in OOTP21. Thank you everybody for being incredible! I have some experience with other baseball sims, and two things, among others, stand out here...The huge gap in quality level of the game, and the customer service response when issues are found that need fixing. Awesome.

01-26-2022, 09:39 AM	#186
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	Regarding the Federal League, we should keep things the way they are. The fielding stats should remain to allow players to have fielding eligibility, but the batting and pitching stats should not be included in their major league stats as the competitive level of the Federal League was not the same as the NL or AL during those seasons and those players were not playing against the NL or AL. The Union Association of 1884 should have been handled this way as well, but it was not. The Union Association should never have been considered a major league. There are very few players from that league who ever played at all or even a full season after 1884.

01-26-2022, 09:54 AM	#187
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	actionjackson, this thread has some information about the updates to the files that were made last year for the game. https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=326065

01-28-2022, 12:40 PM	#188
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Whoa! That is a comprehensive list sir. Thanks for posting, and thanks for all that you do for the game. Still gonna put the Fed Leaguers in my game, because it's only two years worth of data. I also don't believe the Fed League was any less competitive/balanced than the National Association or the Union Association, and both of those are in the game. The National Association was all over the place with foldings, and stars like Ross Barnes completely annihilating the competition, but we need it to get back to 1871, so it's in the game. Same thing for the Union Association, with the instability of the league, and competitive balance. I just want all of the players in my Random Debut game to have the stats they compiled, in what were considered major league level (despite obvious talent level differences) leagues at the time they existed. If they played, and there are stats for them, I want them in my game. As I understand it, the Random Debut import process does some neutralization as players are imported into the draft pool. I know this because I've seen power hitters from the dead ball era have their HR numbers raised, and hitters from the crazy ball era have their HR numbers reduced, which leads to some cool, and competitive individual offensive, and pitching results. I would think the same thing will happen with the Fed League guys. My baseball universe is quite unique really, so I don't think "reality" really applies to it. All my stats output, and strategy settings, are set to 1984 levels (neither dead ball, nor crazy ball, with pretty good pitching and defense, and piles of stolen bases mixed it for fun). I neutralize the weather, and stadium differences too. Just want to put everybody on an equal level, for comparison purposes across all eras. I certainly don't think two years worth of data for about 250 player seasons in each year is gonna affect a damn thing in the grand scheme of things (20,000ish historical players and counting, including Fed Leaguers). I bring a few Negro Leaguers, and players from foreign leagues, via the Spritze DB, into the mix as well. It's a great hodge podge mix of baseball history for me, so if I have to do a little extra work to get the Fed Leaguers in, so be it. As I've said repeatedly, I don't want the league structure included in the game, just the players that played in it, to have their stats. Cheers.

01-29-2022, 12:54 AM	#189
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	When I say the Federal League is not competitive, I am referring to the quality of play compared to the NL and AL in those seasons. Putting 8 teams worth of players into the NL and AL in those seasons with stats accumulated in different conditions is an issue if playing a historical game. This is not a real issue with random debut leagues. The National Association is not an issue because it was the only league at that time and many of the players continued to play in the NL formed in 1876. The AA and NL had players moving between the leagues and the AA seems to have the same level of play compared to the NL from 1882-1891. The Union Association is a different issue. This was never a major league and it ended up in some early baseball almanac and was basically referred to as a major league since then. If you look at the players in the UA in 1884 very few of them ever played in the NL or AA after that. Take a look at Dunlap's batting record after the 1884 season when he played in the NL. He was about a .270 hitter but was a .412 hitter in the UA. He was a good hitter in the NL with a 120 OPS+, but that season in the UA he had a 256 OPS+ and this says something about the comparative quality of talent of the league that season.

01-30-2022, 11:21 PM	#190
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	@Garlon: Found a big one for you. SB/CS for catchers is gummed up in the 2020 stats in OOTP22. I think the reason is that SB Attempts wound up in the SB column. Example: Cubs in OOTP with their 2020 stats: Caratini: 6 SB, 2 CS, Contreras: 26 SB, 9 CS, Josh Phegley: 1 SB, 0 CS Phegley's OOTP numbers will be correct because he didn't throw anyone out IRL, so it's 1 SB (1 attempt, so it's logged as 1 SB), 0 CS. Contreras RL: 17 SB, 9 CS, therefore 26 Attempts, which wound up in the SB column. Same with Caratini RL: 4 SB 2 CS, therefore 6 attempts, which wound up in the SB column, and so on. It's like that for every team I've checked so far. Should be an easy fix, but right now, you guys are gearing up for OOTP23, so it should probably wait until then. Also, pitchers that played a position other than pitcher in the field in 2019 (i.e. Adam Kolarek, Michael Lorenzen, Vince Velasquez), are getting credit for fielding stats at those positions, which, of course, should be happening, but those fielding stats are then getting dumped into the pitcher's fielding stats at pitcher as well. Double dipping, in other words. Both of these can happen really easily, through stuff being in one column rather than another, but the catcher one in particular, will really affect the catchers who throw out a lot of baserunners, as they'll look like they have pop gun arms. Won't really affect those with crappy CS%, but the big dogs will get penalized. As for those leagues, now that I've had time to think about it, both sides make sense, however the FL stats (and probably the UA stats) should not be in the game because they will affect those that play straight up historical. For Random Debut though, it's nice to have them available to you. Obviously the choice should be made in favour of the straight historical players, because us Random Debut guys, while fervent in our passion for playing that way, are a niche subsection, within a niche subsection, probably within another niche subsection, of this game. The decision should always be made in favour of the majority. In this case, that's normal historical. Maybe I can put out something that offers the FL guys, and possibly UA guys if they get scrubbed too, for those that play RD, or want those guys in there for whatever reason. I'll need your permission to use your complete revamping of the historical stats database of course. I could put it up on my Google drive, with a link in my signature or something. That way, it's completely optional for people to use if they care to. Just a thought. Let me know.

01-31-2022, 12:37 AM	#191
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Also, BB-Ref has Jorge Alfaro SB against at 15 in 2020, but it's actually 16 according to his Fielding Game Logs, which makes the Catcher total for the year 31, and the Pitcher total for the year 31. Reported to BB-Ref. Not often you find one of those.

01-31-2022, 04:47 AM	#193
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	Nice work finding those mistakes. They will need to be corrected. The 2021 season needs to be updated and I have not worked on that yet. The fielding ratings process is a ton of work. We need to also get around to correcting all of the player ID issues across the files.

01-31-2022, 06:28 AM	#195
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	For catcher defensive ratings we use E, PB, SB, and CS, but not WP since by definition a WP is attributed to the pitcher. While it may be true that some catchers save some WP this is not something we can sort out plus as you point out it is not available before 1954. If the 2016 and 2017 statistics can be updated we should do that though. Thanks

02-01-2022, 01:42 AM	#196
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Hey Garlon. I'm not seeing CS inside the game in the real fielding tab for any of the catchers. There is a huge, massive caveat here though. I'm still in OOTP21, so this may already have been fixed. Why am I still in OOTP21? I'm reeeally attached to my 35-season Random Debut game. I have 22, but so far I've only taken a dip in the spreadsheets to try and do some troubleshooting, and clean them up for myself. I've removed columns that OOTP21 probably can't handle (your new defensive ratings in the Fielding file, and the XBT% addition for every hitter in the Batting file). I did use the OOTP22 files, without those columns, and everything has come in really well. 2020 stats, pitching, batting, and fielding? Check. They're beautiful. I doubt this is anything on my end. Terrified to move my game to 22 because a different Master file might bork the random thing, and bring in guys that have already come through my game. If it is fixed, that's excellent, and I'll carry on with what I've got here. I take it that if SB/CS get left out, the C Ability, C Arm ratings take over, so that'll have to do for now. There's no difference between OOTP21 in the columns between A and P (SB), and Q (CS), in the Fielding file, so I'm baffled. Maybe the game has them, but it's not showing them? I'm at a loss. Every other defensive, hitting, and pitching stat right up to 2020 is in those tabs for each player. I'm self taught with these things, but I'm pretty good at it. Just checked players that came in earlier in the game, via the OOTP21 database, and ditto. Same thing for some Spritze catchers I brought in. Brought in catcher Art Wilson to check on how my Fed Leaguers are coming along, and noticed it there. Noticed he didn't have his 12 PB with Pittsburgh in 1916, and have added those in. Then I brought in Yadier Molina, and same thing. Same with Josh Gibson from the Spritze DB. SB and CS are always in the P and Q columns of the Fielding file, so I'm really puzzled here. Perhaps the game has the SB/CS info somewhere else, and the player doesn't see it? Hmmm...Confused. Could you check in 22 for me, and see if this is the case, and let me know whether it matters or not?

02-01-2022, 02:25 AM	#197
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,379	Jim Britt (brittji01) needs his birthyear updated to 1849. The notion that he was 16 years old when pitching has been debunked. The dates in the attached link can also be found in ancestry.com for James E Britt from Kings County NY. No month or day but the year is generally accepted. https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Jim_Britt

02-01-2022, 12:49 PM	#198
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Just as an update on the CS thing Garlon. Just checked in games I had going in 16, 19, and XX, and it's the same thing. Zeroes across the board in that column. However, I was playing the 16 game with Neutralized Stats (which I abandoned after that, due to the lack of attention they were getting), and the CS numbers are in the Neutralized Fielding Stats for all catchers. That's bizarre. It means that they can be displayed in game, but for some reason, that is not happening with Real Fielding Stats. Weird. Oops. I'm wrong about that. Some have it. The vast majority do not. I think the ones that do were imports from the Spritze DB, so my next test will look at that. Just checked a Josh Gibson Spritze DB guy, and he doesn't have CS numbers either, so it's probably unanimous, with a smattering of exceptions. Baffling.

02-01-2022, 04:16 PM	#200
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,379	Action, Import the free agent Jim Britt (brittji01) at his rookie year of 1872. Her comes in as 16 because baseball scholars had the wrong Jim Britt. OOTP still has him at age 16 in 1872. There is a birthdate in OOTP so it is not a case of a blank. It is the wrong birthdate is the point. I literally just imported him and I'm up to date on all the patches. https://youtu.be/iQvKP1Nv9Nw