OOTP 17 Update #8 HOTFIX, Version 17.10.67 Available!

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by pbreen

The only thing my comment is a prime example of is the growing distaste among some users of the game, the people behind the game, and the community around the game. Like I said, until the game is operable again this thread cannot be closed. If you do not like the apparent circular arguments then you do not have to participate in them, though you historically have.

.

I have a history?! Wow, who knew
I am not aware of yours, however.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by pbreen

Just tested it again, it is a problem that still persists. Just made a 80/80 Power hitter who hit 18 homers in an entire season. Labeled as "Will hit a few homers, nothing special"...

I have brought this issue up in beta as it related to "contact" rating. Could you please post what the players actual stats are? That would go a long way in determining if it's just the verbage in the written report or something else. The developers think they've nailed down the issue as mentioned.

[Klaus 74]

Originally Posted by PHI34Halladay

I just installed the newest update and wanted to continue my dynasty but it says the world.dat is missing, which is right there and then it says the File is corrupt or from an old Version. I thought the updates were compatible with any running files..

Please help me out here.

I don't know if I'm understanding your issue, but in the end are you needing the June patch 17.9.60?

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...available.html

Also if you go into the online manual, type in 'restore game' in the search field. Then choose restore game from the search result, and follow instructions. Best of luck.

[RubeBaker]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

One thing I will say is that the current version out (17.10.67 hotfix) is fully functional. The maintenance patch scheduled to come out in a couple weeks does fix a couple issues (shopping a player while negative salary, plus some tidying up of other stuff), but the current version certainly will not cause problems with games in progress, and is not unplayable by any means.

We all want the game to be the best possible, and we always keep working towards that.

Thank you. I have had ZERO problems with the latest patch. Everything's running smoothly & I could not be happier. Ku-dos!

[injury log]

Originally Posted by pbreen

Just tested it again, it is a problem that still persists. Just made a 80/80 Power hitter who hit 18 homers in an entire season. Labeled as "Will hit a few homers, nothing special"...

I haven't had any difficulties with manually created players in the latest patch. I think if someone is going to pin down your issue, they will need more information:

- how are you manually creating these players? from scratch, or by editing an existing player?

- when you say 80/80 power, is that scouted? if so what are your scouting settings?

- when you read the text scouting, is that immediately after editing the player? If so, you'd need to run a rescout for the report to update, if scouting is on. Otherwise you'll just be reading about the player's ratings before you edited him.

- what values do you see in the player Editor for Power when you create the player?

- are those values substantially different after the season is over?

- is there anything unusual about your league - very talented pitchers, for example, different PCMs, different league total modifiers?

[MKG1734]

Hello all.

A message to the development staff - Markus & Matt - and anyone who truly enjoys this game, or wants it to be great ... Please read thru this entire post. It is written in a sincere manner, with no intention of trolling or flaming.

I purchased OOTP for 4 straight years - until this year. I planned on waiting until end of summer to purchase OOTP this year to avoid going thru the months and months of endless bug-creating patches [not to mention the bug-filled opening releases].

I came to this forum today to read thru threads just like this one. And, yet, I've seen nothing has changed and I still should not purchase the game, yet.

Its really sad. Because I really WANT to GIVE MY MONEY to OOTP ... and I just can't bring myself to do it, yet.

Also, in fairness to Markus and Matt Arnold [and whoever else of quality may be working on the game this year] ... creating this game / updating it / enhancing it must be extremely difficult work - not to mention time-consuming. I have zero ability to do what they do, so, I am at their mercy ... and I can say, at least they seem to try.

HOWEVER ... I feel two things should be brought to the development staff's attention:

#1: Some - not all - 'veteran' community members [think, people with many, many, many posts] have completely lost control of themselves and have become rabid defenders of the game ... even in cases that they should not. And they bully and bait new(er) members who come here to state the problems that DO exist with the game ... Klaus 74 is RIGHT ON with this post:

Originally Posted by Klaus 74

I read the entire thread from beginning to end twice and it is obvious that senkow and pbreen were trolled/baited by a poster with 13,000 posts, three times. These two upon setting the record straight and trying to get this thread back in order are being baited again, by the same troll. No matter how correct senkow was veteran posters keep crapping over them.

#2: To the development staff:

It became clear last year and - judging by the issues from this year's release - remains clear, that there needs to be a new-game release whereby there are essentially no major "changes" to the game. Meaning: OOTP 18, with no 'new options' and only polish the current ones, fine-tune the AI in all facets - and in some cases, completely overhaul an AI-related system if necessary, and remove bloated options that disrupt / complicate the current game from working properly. The game needs more trim and more fine-tuning and less added 'stuff.'

There have become too many options, whereby they cannot be tested properly. The bloat in the game is now killing it. Ensure that a 'vanilla' game, think vanilla MLB startup game, works properly. Instead of adding new features, ensure that player usage is corrected, and improve transaction AI, etc.

For example, there are just some of the problems that I attempted to help identify last year - but was either ignored or flamed by the veteran community:

A): http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...667-post1.html ... http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...action-ai.html

B): http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...draft-bug.html

C): http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...xplain-me.html

D): http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...wed-logic.html


The development staff of OOTP may do themselves well to cease 'new options' for a year and really polish the game up. Remove the bloat, and get back to a fully functioning product.

[DMN]

I rarely post on this Forum any more because I just don't have time with lots of health issues my wife and I have. I have owned OOTP baseball since ver 1 and I have been given MANY hours of fun and enjoyment from the game. I have always been a supporter of Marcus and his team and while there have been hiccups over the years the game has grown to a position of incredible depth!

I have read through this tread and was amazed by the bad feelings and arguing that has resulted. I am not blaming anyone, because you know who you are. But most of this is NOT helpful to Marcus and his team or to those who enjoy his game. I used to teach in HS for many years and it reminds me of the mindless arguments I used to hear in my school.

The final post (for me today) from MKG1734 hit a home run with me! He was not mean-spirited and in my humble opinion told the truth. My concern with the game agrees with his point about "to many options" and the game is loaded with SO MANY options that an old guy like me simply cannot keep up with them. I recommended OOTP to a baseball nut friend of mine and he recently purchased the game. I have tried to help him with all the nuance and options in the game and he has said to me repeatedly that the game is just overwhelming to him, as it has become for me. Most of the current customer base is much younger, obviously more computer savvy, and more used to such games, and that is great. But I have thought for a long time that what Marcus and his team need to do is slow down on the new features and help bring the game back to the "PLAYABILITY" and :FUN" factor it once had!

Regardless of what direction Marcus goes in I will support him, but as I said the game is fast moving to a point where I will not be able to enjoy it and understand it much longer.

My 2 cents

[pbreen]

Originally Posted by injury log

I haven't had any difficulties with manually created players in the latest patch. I think if someone is going to pin down your issue, they will need more information:

- how are you manually creating these players? from scratch, or by editing an existing player?

- when you say 80/80 power, is that scouted? if so what are your scouting settings?

- when you read the text scouting, is that immediately after editing the player? If so, you'd need to run a rescout for the report to update, if scouting is on. Otherwise you'll just be reading about the player's ratings before you edited him.

- what values do you see in the player Editor for Power when you create the player?

- are those values substantially different after the season is over?

- is there anything unusual about your league - very talented pitchers, for example, different PCMs, different league total modifiers?

#1 I have done both, as a test. Created from scratch as well as edited players to make them good.

#2 80/80 is what the figures on the character screen, meaning that his skill level (or whatever we want to call it) is 80/80. He is also an 80/80 character. I have done both scouting, with an OUTSTANDING scout favoring tools, as well as 100% scouting accuracy. Both come back 80/80 and 90/90 if I put it to the "real figure".

#3 I am familiar with how the game works, I know I just request a scouting report and wait after editing a player, I have played a whole season like this. Even with 100% scouting he is apparently a "not much power" kind of guy.

#4 225 LHB 225 RHB 225 POT

#5 Nope, simming forward a season his skill level stays the same and he remains an 80/80 player. He is only 21 so he is not dropping off.

#6 My league is in the real world 2020, and he is a lefty batter who plays for the Boston Red Sox so he plays half of his games at Fenway Park (a park where lefty's dominate historically).

I would love to say this is just the verbiage in the scouting report, but it appears that the report is accurate although the editor claims it shouldn't be. I have a closer who is an 80/80 and listed as the best closer in Baseball, yet his report says he won't make it to the majors and he gets absolutely beamed every inning he pitches.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by pbreen

#1 I have done both, as a test. Created from scratch as well as edited players to make them good.

#2 80/80 is what the figures on the character screen, meaning that his skill level (or whatever we want to call it) is 80/80. He is also an 80/80 character. I have done both scouting, with an OUTSTANDING scout favoring tools, as well as 100% scouting accuracy. Both come back 80/80 and 90/90 if I put it to the "real figure".

#3 I am familiar with how the game works, I know I just request a scouting report and wait after editing a player, I have played a whole season like this. Even with 100% scouting he is apparently a "not much power" kind of guy.

#4 225 LHB 225 RHB 225 POT

#5 Nope, simming forward a season his skill level stays the same and he remains an 80/80 player. He is only 21 so he is not dropping off.

#6 My league is in the real world 2020, and he is a lefty batter who plays for the Boston Red Sox so he plays half of his games at Fenway Park (a park where lefty's dominate historically).

I would love to say this is just the verbiage in the scouting report, but it appears that the report is accurate although the editor claims it shouldn't be. I have a closer who is an 80/80 and listed as the best closer in Baseball, yet his report says he won't make it to the majors and he gets absolutely beamed every inning he pitches.

The rescout that injury log is referring to, I think, is the Rescout and Recalc option in the Game Settings, not just a single scouting report. I'd ensure that particular exercise doesn't change anything. Matt may have mentioned you try that in an earlier post, but I don't recall.

Oh, and without re-examining the thread, what Contact Rating are you implementing? A particular range for these elite players? The 20-80 scale with a minimum of, say, 50, or what?

[pbreen]

I don't think its necessarily a scouting problem though because the editor numbers stay at 225, meaning that the player should be hitting at that level. The numbers usually deteriorate in the editor if there is a problem, but they are staying constant at 225.

The one I am talking about right now, Gasper Pearson, is BABIP 100 100 100 and Avoid K 75 75 75 with an Eye of 125.

[DMN]

I rarely post on this Forum any more because I just don't have time with lots of health issues my wife and I have. I have owned OOTP baseball since ver 1 and I have been given MANY hours of fun and enjoyment from the game. I have always been a supporter of Marcus and his team and while there have been hiccups over the years the game has grown to a position of incredible depth!

I have read through this tread and was amazed by the bad feelings and arguing that has resulted. I am not blaming anyone, because you know who you are. But most of this is NOT helpful to Marcus and his team or to those who enjoy his game. I used to teach in HS for many years and it reminds me of the mindless arguments I used to hear in my school.

The final post (for me today) from MKG1734 hit a home run with me! He was not mean-spirited and in my humble opinion told the truth. My concern with the game agrees with his point about "to many options" and the game is loaded with SO MANY options that an old guy like me simply cannot keep up with them. I recommended OOTP to a baseball nut friend of mine and he recently purchased the game. I have tried to help him with all the nuance and options in the game and he has said to me repeatedly that the game is just overwhelming to him, as it has become for me. Most of the current customer base is much younger, obviously more computer savvy, and more used to such games, and that is great. But I have thought for a long time that what Marcus and his team need to do is slow down on the new features and help bring the game back to the "PLAYABILITY" and :FUN" factor it once had!

Regardless of what direction Marcus goes in I will support him, but as I said the game is fast moving to a point where I will not be able to enjoy it and understand it much longer.

My 2 cents

[jpeters1734]

I definitely oppose the idea that too many options are killing the game. It's absurd. If you don't want to mess around with the many settings, then don't. Play the MLB QuickStart and leave it at that.

[endgame]

Agreed, jp. The existing and future caveat needs to be options added should be measured and tested for impact, integrity, and ease of understanding their use and application.

[MKG1734]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I definitely oppose the idea that too many options are killing the game. It's absurd. If you don't want to mess around with the many settings, then don't. Play the MLB QuickStart and leave it at that.

With regard to my post here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...8-post186.html

The issue with 'adding' to the game ... is that the game currently does not work properly.

I spent 6 months in OOTP 16 identifying issues and bringing them to attention here. And not minor issues, either, but essentially game-breaking issues (see my post linked above). And the examples from my initial post are just a small sampling of issues found and reported last year.

These issues were not only NOT fixed for OOTP 17, additional issues are now being found.

It would behoove the game's developers to take an entire game-release of revamping the AI where necessary and fine-tune the AI one step at a time over this winter instead of working on a handful of new items to add to the game. Lets get the game working properly on "out-of-the-box" settings rather than leaving the issues alone only to create new ones with new options.

For example, Markus and Matt should work on revamping and fixing the in-game AI decision making to get the coding logic as air-tight as possible and and not move on to the next step until that is complete (see the post I link to regarding the in-game AI defense in my post above).

Then, for example, moving on to fixing AI roster decision management logic (such as the 3 huge free agent catcher contracts in my example above), and making it air-tight and not moving on to the next step until that is complete.

I pay a LOT of attention to detail when playing. And that is one of OOTP's selling points ... the in-depth immersion of gameplay. However, when the game's designers are promoting the sale of its product to analytical thinkers ... the game's designers needs to be prepared to be - justly, in this case - criticized. However ... I am offering CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. No flaming or trolling, whatsoever.

Eventually, if the game remains broken, sales will eventually fall. For example, I did not purchase OOTP 17 after purchasing OOTP 14-16.

I do not - at all - mind 'new' game options. But, how about getting the ones in the game working properly first? Especially when it comes to "out-of-the-box" or "vanilla" settings.

And, for the record ... I do not playing with exotic game settings. I only play with "vanilla" settings in order to get the AI to have the easiest time playing as possible. And, since I pay such close attention to everything in the game, I know that the "vanilla" AI is not performing very well. Hence the point of the entire thread here ... which led to my post above (and now) when I came to check to see if I should purchase OOTP 17 or not.

[injury log]

pbreen - there was one issue that eg and psu were alluding to in their replies, where one rating wasn't translating properly into text. But your issue must be something different. It's true that even on 100% accurate scouting, you'd need to generate a new scouting report to see updates to the text. But if your player has 225/225 Power in the Editor, maintains those ratings, and hits only 18 HR in a full season, that's a different matter altogether. A guy with those ratings should easily clear 40 HR every year, except in an unusual league.

When I manually create players, I don't normally assign ratings that high. If you give someone 180/180 Power, do you see the same issue with lower-than-expected performance?

[pbreen]

Originally Posted by injury log

When I manually create players, I don't normally assign ratings that high. If you give someone 180/180 Power, do you see the same issue with lower-than-expected performance?

Yes, I experience the issue across the board with every player I create/edit. It is as if my tinkering in editor hinders the players performance.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by MKG1734

With regard to my post here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...8-post186.html

The issue with 'adding' to the game ... is that the game currently does not work properly.

I spent 6 months in OOTP 16 identifying issues and bringing them to attention here. And not minor issues, either, but essentially game-breaking issues (see my post linked above). And the examples from my initial post are just a small sampling of issues found and reported last year.

These issues were not only NOT fixed for OOTP 17, additional issues are now being found.

It would behoove the game's developers to take an entire game-release of revamping the AI where necessary and fine-tune the AI one step at a time over this winter instead of working on a handful of new items to add to the game. Lets get the game working properly on "out-of-the-box" settings rather than leaving the issues alone only to create new ones with new options.

For example, Markus and Matt should work on revamping and fixing the in-game AI decision making to get the coding logic as air-tight as possible and and not move on to the next step until that is complete (see the post I link to regarding the in-game AI defense in my post above).

Then, for example, moving on to fixing AI roster decision management logic (such as the 3 huge free agent catcher contracts in my example above), and making it air-tight and not moving on to the next step until that is complete.

I pay a LOT of attention to detail when playing. And that is one of OOTP's selling points ... the in-depth immersion of gameplay. However, when the game's designers are promoting the sale of its product to analytical thinkers ... the game's designers needs to be prepared to be - justly, in this case - criticized. However ... I am offering CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. No flaming or trolling, whatsoever.

Eventually, if the game remains broken, sales will eventually fall. For example, I did not purchase OOTP 17 after purchasing OOTP 14-16.

I do not - at all - mind 'new' game options. But, how about getting the ones in the game working properly first? Especially when it comes to "out-of-the-box" or "vanilla" settings.

And, for the record ... I do not playing with exotic game settings. I only play with "vanilla" settings in order to get the AI to have the easiest time playing as possible. And, since I pay such close attention to everything in the game, I know that the "vanilla" AI is not performing very well. Hence the point of the entire thread here ... which led to my post above (and now) when I came to check to see if I should purchase OOTP 17 or not.

Let me ask you this....you are bringing up issues that you saw in OOTP 16 and then state that they have not been fixed in 17, but also say that you have not bought OOTP 17. Sorry, but it seems all you are doing is harping on issues that you saw in last year's version instead of this years. I understand the point that things should be tested more/longer (I work in QA at a software company, so I understand that), and Markus and Matt have both said they are going to look into changing how things are done for OOTP 18. And as for your example of the three big catcher signings, I have played many MLB quickstart games and I have yet to see that occur in any of my games (catcher or another position).

And please do not take what I said as trolling, I am just bringing up what I noticed in all your posts where you talk about issues in 16 and not 17.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

Let me ask you this....you are bringing up issues that you saw in OOTP 16 and then state that they have not been fixed in 17, but also say that you have not bought OOTP 17. Sorry, but it seems all you are doing is harping on issues that you saw in last year's version instead of this years. I understand the point that things should be tested more/longer (I work in QA at a software company, so I understand that), and Markus and Matt have both said they are going to look into changing how things are done for OOTP 18. And as for your example of the three big catcher signings, I have played many MLB quickstart games and I have yet to see that occur in any of my games (catcher or another position).

And please do not take what I said as trolling, I am just bringing up what I noticed in all your posts where you talk about issues in 16 and not 17.

I don't mean to speak for MKG, but I think his point was that problems in 16 were never fixed in 16, which was reason enough for him to not buy 17. Now, he's watching all the problems come up with 17 and it's disheartening. (If I'm wrong about your intent, MKG, please correct me.)

Personally, I did not purchase 17 when it was released because the new features didn't intrigue me and my main use of OOTP is a long-running league that started in 15, so I really had no motivation to move past 16. I did, however, plan to purchase 17 at the All-Star Game discount. BUT, all the problems that have come up (in addition to some long-time users expressing disappointment in the overall 17 experience) have kept me from buying 17. So I think I can relate to what MKG is saying.

I love this game and have no plans to stop playing. But I do have concerns about the future based on what we're seeing with this version, and that disappoints me.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I don't mean to speak for MKG, but I think his point was that problems in 16 were never fixed in 16, which was reason enough for him to not buy 17. Now, he's watching all the problems come up with 17 and it's disheartening. (If I'm wrong about your intent, MKG, please correct me.)

Personally, I did not purchase 17 when it was released because the new features didn't intrigue me and my main use of OOTP is a long-running league that started in 15, so I really had no motivation to move past 16. I did, however, plan to purchase 17 at the All-Star Game discount. BUT, all the problems that have come up (in addition to some long-time users expressing disappointment in the overall 17 experience) have kept me from buying 17. So I think I can relate to what MKG is saying.

I love this game and have no plans to stop playing. But I do have concerns about the future based on what we're seeing with this version, and that disappoints me.

I'd bet though, that he (and you) would find that many of the 16 issues are fixed in 17 and that many of the 17 issues will be fixed in 18. Not all of course, but many, even most.

I can totally see both sides of this argument, and can get the complaints and why people may have issues and demand more from the game, but from what I see, I think that a lot of the guys who are complaining that things aren't fixed are not quite getting is that many things are fixed, but it often takes till the next dev cycle before those fixes are totally implemented. Is that ideal? Nope, but it's part of the reality of working with a small team and a fairly low budget.

Fixes to OOTP aren't always immediate, but they do come. That's one of the reasons to buy the game, that Markus, Andreas and Matt do read and follow the forums and make fixes where they're needed and that they are passionate about making the game the best it can be.

Yes, those fixes don't always come within a few days of the issues being pointed out, but what other game does make fixes that quickly and is always willing to quickly release a hotpatch where needed?

I don't really know of anyone with a better track record of being responsive and eager to make fixes ad changes where needed than OOTP. Maybe there are a few games/companies, but OOTP is near the top of the list when it comes to dealing with those issues.

That's not said to excuse or wave away any needed changes that haven't yet been made and that you may feel are overdue (rightly or wrongly), but it's a basic reality check.

In a market where you can easily expect to pay $50-60 for a game that's basically released as is and never really updated, never really supported after release, surely the fact the OOTP does stand behind their products and makes needed fixes and changes often, even if sometimes they only come with next year's version (and even if they don't always do so 100% as quickly as some would like or on occasion introduce entirely new bugs or issues in patches) is certainly worth something.

There's a lot of hyperbole on both sides in this thread, but frankly there's nothing "unplayable" about the game that isn't nearly immediately fixed in a hotpatch.

Are there legacy bugs that really need to be squashed? Sure. Does the AI need work? Always. Markus and Matt would be the first to say that and in fact they're always working on the ai and the nuts and bolts of the game. Have recent patches introduced too many new bugs and issues at times? Absolutely. Matt's even admitted that in this thread.

In fact where some of the recent issues seem to have come from, may be from the team making too many fixes and tweaks to some ai and other to issues that are maybe not game-breaking in themselves but that need to be adjusted but perhaps trying to release those fixes too soon, and make this year's game better rather than waiting till next year, but thereby inadvertently creating some unforeseen issues in other areas.

So it's certain that the process may need to be tweaked to prevent that from happening.

More testing and QA before patches are released is certainly needed but the game itself is healthy and robust and the team behind it has surely earned some trust from all the years the guys have delivered a really strong and fun game.

Progress isn't always linear and there will always be hiccups and bumps in the road leading to perfection, but this is a team and a game that's determined to do what it takes to reach that level.

So if you have issues, please keep posting them. (Though preferably in the bug report forums where they'll actually be seen and can be dealt with by the people who matter)

If you love the game and think it's great as is, as the majority of us do, then please don't reflexively criticize or attack those who feel that it's a bit less perfect than you do, but still care enough about making the game better to post their issues and concerns here. Let them have their say and be heard and treat them with respect and dignity even if you disagree with their take.

Doing so will only make the game stronger in the end and make the forums a better place for all of us who love the game and want to see it become all it can possibly be

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

So if you have issues, please keep posting them. (Though preferably in the bug report forums where they'll actually be seen and can be dealt with by the people who matter)

If you love the game and think it's great as is, as the majority of us do, then please don't reflexively criticize or attack those who feels it's a bit less perfect than you do, but still care enough about making the game better to post their issues and concerns here. Let them have their say and be heard and treat them with respect and dignity even if you disagree with their take.

Doing so will only make the game stronger in the end and make the forums a better place for all of us who love the game and want to see it become all it can possibly be

best part