So... guess the new OOTP 16 features!

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

We do understand it. But asking for a major game rewrite for something that can be done manually with about ten minutes of effort per season is pretty selfish, and Marcus has already told us that implementing p/r would require a complete rewrite of the financial system. Some of us would like a stats-only mode, but we realize that it's not going to happen because there's not enough demand - just like with p/r - and we can do workarounds, just like you can with p/r. It really does only take about ten minutes a season; I've done it myself



I can't speak for him, but I got tired of it about five versions ago.

I wouldn't call it selfish. Seeing as how the increase in casual ootp players have increased, add in those who play the FM series, I'd say there is a growing number of people that would love that feature. And clearly the odd "hardcore" would like it too. The casuals won't bother spending 10 minutes a season in setting this up, especially since some of them simulate a season in 5 minutes for their fictional leagues.

Not only that, but looking through the team historys, one couldn't tell if a team was in a top league or lower league and the league history would be skewed mixing up top league wins with lower league wins. So clearly, yes, alot of work would have to be made to implement it properly. But for those reasons alone, i have never bothered doing it manually. I too would probably grow tired of it, but that's besides the point.

Clearly it's difficult to implement, but calling those selfish who would like it is quite ironic in my mind.

[Padreman]

Allow ties like in spring training and Nippon Baseball League (Japan)

[The Wolf]

I have played soccer/association football since I was a small boy. I still play. Sometimes I coach. I often play FM. I ran a test p/r league in OOTP. I understand the issues here.

And, yes, I think the loud cry by a few calling for an OOTP rewrite to put p/r into OOTP is selfish. And also unnecessary. You can literally do it yourself with the tools you already have. Plus p/r is no part of baseball whatsoever. You want p/r before the WBC gets in the game, when the WBC is actually a real thing instead of some FM-inspired pipedream? Bah.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I have played soccer/association football since I was a small boy. I still play. Sometimes I coach. I often play FM. I ran a test p/r league in OOTP. I understand the issues here.

And, yes, I think the loud cry by a few calling for an OOTP rewrite to put p/r into OOTP is selfish. And also unnecessary. You can literally do it yourself with the tools you already have. Plus p/r is no part of baseball whatsoever. You want p/r before the WBC gets in the game, when the WBC is actually a real thing instead of some FM-inspired pipedream? Bah.

Personally I hope people continue to lobby for features that they would like to see, because that is ultimately how the game gets better. One could also say it's selfish to be against a feature because you have no interest in it. The WBC is not my cup of tea, but I certainly wouldn't call people selfish who want to see it in the game.

There are many different way to play the game - fictional, historical, real world, online which is a big part of what makes this game great. It's really up to OOTP to decide which features they want to implement, which features will help drive new sales, and where to apply their resources.

As for p/r being no part of baseball whatsoever, until fairly recently it did exist in Italy - Italian Baseball League - BR Bullpen

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Ike348

Obviously, the promotion/relegation AI would only affect leagues with promotion/relegation turned on... It's not like teams will be desperate to not finish last in your MLB game.

Also, the financial system does need a complete rewrite. Whether it is worth all of the time that could be put to other matters (such as not storing innings pitched as a float of .333, instead of 1/3, which causes the 27.03 error), remains to be seen.

The post I answered was asking for "a kind of half-measure" that would let the AI understand to avoid the bottom of the standings and being relegated. My response has nothing to do with how it would affect an MLB game with relegation turned off because with no relegation it would obviously have no affect. The point is that for the AI first to understand avoiding relegation and second what steps to take to avoid relegation isn't going to be a simple matter. It's not going to be done with some " kind of half-measure". Very easy to say "Markus please make AI teams avoid relegation". Not so easy to decide what steps the AI should take to do so.

Haven't even moved onto the teams seeking promotion. Do they trade their future stud to get promotion only to have to fight to avoid relegation the next season? Or does the AI understand with it's farm system that if players continue to develop they will be promotion candidates two seasons down the road?

Lots of things to consider that can have knock-on effects and they should be discussed before anything is added in a "half-measure" that could possibly cause a lot of problems.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by Sweed

The post I answered was asking for "a kind of half-measure" that would let the AI understand to avoid the bottom of the standings and being relegated. My response has nothing to do with how it would affect an MLB game with relegation turned off because with no relegation it would obviously have no affect. The point is that for the AI first to understand avoiding relegation and second what steps to take to avoid relegation isn't going to be a simple matter. It's not going to be done with some " kind of half-measure". Very easy to say "Markus please make AI teams avoid relegation". Not so easy to decide what steps the AI should take to do so.

Haven't even moved onto the teams seeking promotion. Do they trade their future stud to get promotion only to have to fight to avoid relegation the next season? Or does the AI understand with it's farm system that if players continue to develop they will be promotion candidates two seasons down the road?

Lots of things to consider that can have knock-on effects and they should be discussed before anything is added in a "half-measure" that could possibly cause a lot of problems.

There may be other things to consider, but I would think the current "Win Now", "Rebuilding", "Neutral" would work. Teams trying to avoid relegation wouldn't go into rebuilding mode so I think a half measure of a team recognizing the type of league and appropriately setting their focus based on their position would go a long way.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

You don't understand it because you don't engage in it yourself. Many of us who do would like to see it. Just because some people don't use it or understand it doesn't mean it should never be available.



Only the OOTP people can tell us whether promotion and relegation is permanently off the table for any of the reasons you state. Until they do, we'll continue to ask for it. I hope you don't mind.

of course not....I am just conveying what I think OOTP may be thinking. But I don't know for sure.

[Izz]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

One could also say it's selfish to be against a feature because you have no interest in it.

Agreed.

[dward1]

Originally Posted by Sweed

The post I answered was asking for "a kind of half-measure" that would let the AI understand to avoid the bottom of the standings and being relegated. My response has nothing to do with how it would affect an MLB game with relegation turned off because with no relegation it would obviously have no affect. The point is that for the AI first to understand avoiding relegation and second what steps to take to avoid relegation isn't going to be a simple matter. It's not going to be done with some " kind of half-measure". Very easy to say "Markus please make AI teams avoid relegation". Not so easy to decide what steps the AI should take to do so.

Haven't even moved onto the teams seeking promotion. Do they trade their future stud to get promotion only to have to fight to avoid relegation the next season? Or does the AI understand with it's farm system that if players continue to develop they will be promotion candidates two seasons down the road?

Lots of things to consider that can have knock-on effects and they should be discussed before anything is added in a "half-measure" that could possibly cause a lot of problems.

all of these problems are currently present with playoffs though. the AI has to weigh whether to trade a prospect or not to make the playoffs and theoretically determine whether it's worth it to wait on him down the road. I don't see how a basic promotion/relegation is much different than that. I'm not asking for the AI to know the financial differences in the leagues, just to play to avoid relegation like it does to make the last playoff spot. the AI doesn't mortgage it's entire future just to make the playoffs now so I think it can handle it ok

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

As for p/r being no part of baseball whatsoever, until fairly recently it did exist in Italy - Italian Baseball League - BR Bullpen

And still exists in Holland.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

One could also say it's selfish to be against a feature because you have no interest in it.

Only if you were a liar. I'm against it because it's not any part of baseball, because it would require a major rewrite to please the p/r crowd and there are far more important things that need to be rewritten and addressed, that it's supporters keep trying to jump the line ahead of the WBC - which actually is a very real part of baseball - when the WBC should obviously have a higher priority, but most of all BECAUSE YOU CAN DO P/R RIGHT NOW with the tools we have. I've done it. It takes about ten minutes a season to do. Doubt that it can be done? Set up a league and see for yourself.

For a few people to ask that the game be rewritten to suit their preferred fantasy mode is selfish. And let me point out that if I were similarly asking for a Stats Only mode for the game which required this much work to implement the p/r crowd would be numbered among the online lynch mob that would be coming after me.

[Lukas Berger]

In the end, I don't think it's selfish for anyone to ask for what they want, no matter how obscure a request. Ask, even lobby for whatever, that's fine.

But Markus is only going to add a given request to the game if he thinks it adds value and is worth the effort it would take. If he thinks it's worth adding then it probably is worth adding. If he doesn't, then it's not happening.

So all this back and forth is really much ado about nothing. Ask for what you want, stats only, promotion relegation etc. Make your best case for it, then live with the results and enjoy what features do make it into the game.

[Poweshow]

It's absolutely painful the amount of lobbying done by people against new ways to play the game. Fictional league players have been asking for new ways to play the game for nearly a decade now. Aside from some work being done to be able to play with multiple nations in a single league, fictional players have simply not had anything significant added (correct me if I'm wrong). Accordingly despite OOTP 15 being the best version of the game to date, it's seen less play time than any other OOTP for me. Simply put, playing the exact same game for over a decade now has begun to get a bit stale.

Yes, there may be some type of way to vaguely replicate a promotion/relegation league, but I'd much prefer a fully working version that I don't have to use my imagination to make things work. I, like others don't even need a full commitment to promotion/relegation in this iteration of OOTP, I just want any type of movement to indicate that there are plans to create new ways to play the game, and promotion/relegation is the most exciting new way to play the game for many of us here on the board.

Just as painful as all of this though is The Wolf's constant complaining... the guy must be a real pleasure to live with; the living embodiment of a wet owl.

[Poweshow]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And, yes, I think the loud cry by a few calling for an OOTP rewrite to put p/r into OOTP is selfish. And also unnecessary. You can literally do it yourself with the tools you already have. Plus p/r is no part of baseball whatsoever. You want p/r before the WBC gets in the game, when the WBC is actually a real thing instead of some FM-inspired pipedream? Bah.

A lot of us have been asking for promotion/relegation since before the WBC even existed.

[Brananorama]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'm against it because it's not any part of baseball.

Neither are 50-man MLB active rosters, National League designated hitters, or integrated 1880 fictional leagues. By that logic this game should be wholly un-customizable and only "real baseball" should be played with OOTP.

[Cryomaniac]

Pretty much everything we ask for is selfish in a sense, because it's something we want. The fact that more people agree with certain suggestions doesnt make it less selfish to want that if you would use it. I've said any number of times that there are quite a few things I would like to see but that I cant realistically imagine Markus doing anytime soon.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

and there are far more important things that need to be rewritten and addressed.

In your opinion? Or are you now the arbitrator in what is important and what should be done next?

That superior and condescending attitude drives me nuts because you know better than others what should be done, how much effort it will take, and what the priority is, and make sure everyone knows how they should feel. That's really not for you to determine. And your voice shouldn't carry any more voice than any other paying customers. Now I remember why I don't check this forum often.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

In the end, I don't think it's selfish for anyone to ask for what they want, no matter how obscure a request. Ask, even lobby for whatever, that's fine.

But Markus is only going to add a given request to the game if he thinks it adds value and is worth the effort it would take. If he thinks it's worth adding then it probably is worth adding. If he doesn't, then it's not happening.

So all this back and forth is really much ado about nothing. Ask for what you want, stats only, promotion relegation etc. Make your best case for it, then live with the results and enjoy what features do make it into the game.

Boom. This.

[David Watts]

What if we make really selfish requests to this guy Marcus and he puts them in the game without Markus knowing? Have you thought about that? Gosh, I guess y'all must think of me as one selfish dork with all my random debut requests.

[mm7607]

I know I'm going to beat a dead horse here but I would LOVE to see the record book/encyclopedia get some work. This is the only part of the game that i can think of that has barely had any changes in years. It pales in comparison to some other games of much lesser quality.

Also the AI cant figure out how to handle small rosters with no minors. I still get teams with 12 catchers and 4 OF or 20 MR and 2 catchers.

Full uniforms with more detail would be great, would have to be able to merge with current made unies or a lot of modders would have a coronary

The P/R doesn't concern me but I would try it if it was in the game.