The official World Cup 2010 thread... - Page 10

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Rooney did little but then Rooney got little to work with. Defenders do not have to pay much attention to Heskey. Englands results with Heskey have been poor overall. They failed to qualify for Euro 06. But if you guys are happy with Heskey...

How can they be poor overall when they won 8 out of 11 with Heskey in the line up, two of those games they beat Croatia 4-1 and 5-1. A football team is like a jigsaw, without certain pieces you'll never get anywhere just look at Real Madrid and you'll understand.

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 04:57 AM

imo 2 things wrong with the England team, 1 they should play more of an english type of football, 2 the wingers have pace to burn so burn it. What I'm trying to say is the wingers think too much instead of sliding the ball past the defender and putting their heads down, nearly every time they took the ball on the outside last night they gave the US defenders problems but didn't really do much when they cut inside.

Tommysixfingers · 06-13-2010, 04:57 AM

A bigger issue for England than both the goalie situtation or which attacker to play besides Rooney is why the midfield (read Lampard and Gerrard) is working none better today than back in Svennis days. To me It's obvious that Lampard and Gerrard can't play together. Both are fantastic players in their clubs but they can't make it work together.

Some believe that this will be better when Barry takes the role as a hold-up midfielder (Gerrard could then take a small step to the left) but I have to see it to be convinced. Lampard and Gerrard understanding eachother is a necesity for the Englidh midfield to work but since that won't be happening I see no solution but to decide which one to play. And since that won't happen either (the press would eat the deciding manager alive) I can't see the midfield working properly this tournament either.

Tommysixfingers · 06-13-2010, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

imo 2 things wrong with the England team, 1 they should play more of an english type of football, 2 the wingers have pace to burn so burn it. What I'm trying to say is the wingers think too much instead of sliding the ball past the defender and putting their heads down, nearly every time they took the ball on the outside last night they gave the US defenders problems but didn't really do much when they cut inside.

2. Lennon has the pace for sure but his crossing leaves a lot to desire still imo. As you wrote, he beat Bocanegra repeatedly yesterday but couldn't manage anything after that.

bababui · 06-13-2010, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

This season with Heskey 31 in 11 games, with Crouch 21 in 8 games. But with Heskey they managed to score 11 goals against Croatia and Holland games that Crouch didn't play in, if you actualy look at the games Heskey and Crouch play in it seem's Capello as caught onto the idea that Crouch plays well against the poor teams as that's who he usually plays against.

hmmmmm

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommysixfingers

A bigger issue for England than both the goalie situtation or which attacker to play besides Rooney is why the midfield (read Lampard and Gerrard) is working none better today than back in Svennis days. To me It's obvious that Lampard and Gerrard can't play together. Both are fantastic players in their clubs but they can't make it work together.

Some believe that this will be better when Barry takes the role as a hold-up midfielder (Gerrard could then take a small step to the left) but I have to see it to be convinced. Lampard and Gerrard understanding eachother is a necesity for the Englidh midfield to work but since that won't be happening I see no solution but to decide which one to play. And since that won't happen either (the press would eat the diciding manager alive) I can't see the midfield working properly this tournament either.

It's been a problem for awhile now Tommy, I've always said Gerrard and Lampard can't play together well not to world cup winning standards as their too much the same. Maybe well it should change after the world cup with both getting on in years so be it Capello or who ever will be the manager in the future, they should have an helping hand in getting rid of Gerrard or Lampard or both.

bababui · 06-13-2010, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

How can they be poor overall when they won 8 out of 11 with Heskey in the line up, two of those games they beat Croatia 4-1 and 5-1. A football team is like a jigsaw, without certain pieces you'll never get anywhere just look at Real Madrid and you'll understand.

They failed to qualify for Euro 2008 with Heskey.

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

hmmmmm

What you trying to show me ? I know Crouch as scored more goals than Heskey, means nothing though when Crouch is scoring 2 -3 goals against the likes of Belarus, Andorra, Jamaica and the likes. Capello picks Heskey for the big games against Croatia and such, I'm thinking he knows just a little more abaout football than me or you, don't you think ?

bababui · 06-13-2010, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

What you trying to show me ? I know Crouch as scored more goals than Heskey, means nothing though when Crouch is scoring 2 -3 goals against the likes of Belarus, Andorra, Jamaica and the likes. Capello picks Heskey for the big games against Croatia and such, I'm thinking he knows just a little more abaout football than me or you, don't you think ?

The games that England lost to Croatia to miss out on Euro 2008?? England hasnt won too many big games in the last few years. And Heskey could well be a big reason for that. Also the lack of midfield creativity.

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

They failed to qualify for Euro 2008 with Heskey.

So it was Heskeys fault ? By the way just a small tip to people, if your going to put your point across you should always check up on your facts.

Euro 2008 Qualifiers.

Crouch played in 8 of those games while Heskey played in only 2, I'd also like to add the 2 games Heskey played in England won both a 3-0 win against Israel and a 3-0 win against Russia. Taxi for baba

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

The games that England lost to Croatia to miss out on Euro 2008?? England hasnt won too many big games in the last few years. And Heskey could well be a big reason for that. Also the lack of midfield creativity.

Heskey didn't play in either defeats against Croatia, he did play in both wins against Croatia this time around kind of screams something to me but can't think what

bababui · 06-13-2010, 05:25 AM

Crouch 8 games 5 goals
Hesket 2 games 0 goals

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Crouch 8 games 5 goals
Hesket 2 games 0 goals

Ah but you can't turn it round baba, you blamed Heskey for England being knocked out in 2008 but England were 100% with him in the team.

LFC1892 · 06-13-2010, 06:22 AM

I havent got much time for Heskey, but he was good winning the ball in the air, holding it up and the Gerrard goal pass. He wasnt set as a straight striker and the role he was given by Capello, he played well enough. The chance he shot straight at Tim Howard wasnt ideal(obviously), but could another striker such as Bent etc, played the role that Heskey was set?

I long for the days of out and out attack on the football pitch, but it rarely happens at international level. Sometime you just have to make do.

And, no mention of this man........?

jbergey22 · 06-13-2010, 06:50 AM

Out of the 5 games played thus far England has looked like the best team to me. Take away a bonehead mistake by their goalkeep and they have a clean sheet against an underrated US team. As a casual fan the talent in the England/US game seemed much greater than in the other 4 games.

Tommysixfingers · 06-13-2010, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC1892

And, no mention of this man........?

What hasn't been said allready. I feel sorry for him. It was obvious that he wasn't the players choice (James is if you believe what is written) as nobody in the English squad gave him so much as a comforting look when he made the mistake. Let alone a pat on the back.

Considering the historical traumas that England has suffered with their goalies and the general anxiousness that surrounds the squad I would have taken another route from Capello's. I don't think that the team (keepers in particular) benefited from him keeping them in the dark regarding who would start in goal for 10 days. I recon it would have been better to assign a starting keeper early and let it sink in for both him and the teammates.

Ragnar · 06-13-2010, 08:26 AM

Is algeria supposed to be the inferior team? It didn't look like that in the first half.

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommysixfingers

What hasn't been said allready. I feel sorry for him. It was obvious that he wasn't the players choice (James is if you believe what is written) as nobody in the English squad gave him so much as a comforting look when he made the mistake. Let alone a pat on the back.

Considering the historical traumas that England has suffered with their goalies and the general anxiousness that surrounds the squad I would have taken another route from Capello's. I don't think that the team (keepers in particular) benefited from him keeping them in the dark regarding who would start in goal for 10 days. I recon it would have been better to assign a starting keeper early and let it sink in for both him and the teammates.

It's not like any other position though is it a goalkeeper, a goalkeeper needs time and such and that's were I agree with you. Capello should have said when he named his squad or at least the day they touched down in South Africa, look your my goalkeeper for the tournament. Personally I like Joe Hart, maybe young and unchallenged at this level but he as to play in big games somewhere down the line.

Another thing is I think in England were seeing a kind of Brazil effect, meaning like in Brazil nobody wants to play in goal they all want to be a Rooney or Ronaldo. Reason being in years gone by you could name a dozen goalkeepers to put in the England squad and nobody would raise an eyebrow which would be in goal because they were all good, that isn't the case though at this moment in time.

ukhotstove · 06-13-2010, 08:54 AM

Good few seats empty yet again, wonder what the bums on seats attendance ratings are like and not the lets fiddle the numbers ratings that FIFA will announce each day.

phightin · 06-13-2010, 02:27 PM

Just like to add I thought Heskey did fine as a target man yesterday. Not going to argue the fact that one of the things that hurts England is not having a comprable pure forward who can partner with Rooney, but when i've watched them over the last couple years Heskey always seemed the best option compared to Crouch. I also think it's clear as day as been said here Gerrard and Lampard can't work together as a central midfield duo. Not that they have many other options though at the moment. Lastly, it was a poor showing by Capello yesterday and I think his lack of managerial experience at the international level showed. Managing Internationally where everything is condensed down to 3 or 4 games during these huge tournaments, it isn't like club ball where you want to be making early substitutions and last minute player selection decisions. It can be argued that since each game is more meaningful you need to be making adjustments constantly but I highly disagree because it looks erratic and can unbalance your team severly which is more impactful over the course of 3-4 games. Again though the Ferdinand situation didn't help much.

Also, I'm still a bit flustered by people putting down the US performance as lucky yesterday. Were they the better team than England, no, and did they get lucky with the goal, yes, but watching them religiously over the years they did what they had to do after the first 20 minutes. They got a little over ambitious stringing passes together throughout the back and middle third but they went forward after being scored on early and showed resiliency the first half. If you've been watching the US in more than just their recent games, and are able to analyze performance you would know that this was one of their better showings. Once we settled in I thought our back line did ok with the exception of Bocanegra.

The real key which I would like to possibly see against Slovenia is Clark possibly being held off for a more attacking option in the center of the pitch for Torres/Feilhaber. I don't think Bradley will go for it, but it always balances our midfield more with Bradley Jr. being partnered with one of those attacking options when we face an opponent where we can get forward against more.

06-13-2010, 04:57 AM	#182
ukhotstove Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North of England Gods Country Posts: 7,175	imo 2 things wrong with the England team, 1 they should play more of an english type of football, 2 the wingers have pace to burn so burn it. What I'm trying to say is the wingers think too much instead of sliding the ball past the defender and putting their heads down, nearly every time they took the ball on the outside last night they gave the US defenders problems but didn't really do much when they cut inside. __________________ Detroit Diesel Dynasty San Antonio Calzones of Laredo Dynasty

06-13-2010, 04:57 AM	#183
Tommysixfingers All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,500	A bigger issue for England than both the goalie situtation or which attacker to play besides Rooney is why the midfield (read Lampard and Gerrard) is working none better today than back in Svennis days. To me It's obvious that Lampard and Gerrard can't play together. Both are fantastic players in their clubs but they can't make it work together. Some believe that this will be better when Barry takes the role as a hold-up midfielder (Gerrard could then take a small step to the left) but I have to see it to be convinced. Lampard and Gerrard understanding eachother is a necesity for the Englidh midfield to work but since that won't be happening I see no solution but to decide which one to play. And since that won't happen either (the press would eat the deciding manager alive) I can't see the midfield working properly this tournament either. Last edited by Tommysixfingers; 06-13-2010 at 05:03 AM. Reason: spelling

06-13-2010, 08:54 AM	#199
ukhotstove Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North of England Gods Country Posts: 7,175	Good few seats empty yet again, wonder what the bums on seats attendance ratings are like and not the lets fiddle the numbers ratings that FIFA will announce each day. __________________ Detroit Diesel Dynasty San Antonio Calzones of Laredo Dynasty

06-13-2010, 06:22 AM	#194
LFC1892 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Global Posts: 963	I havent got much time for Heskey, but he was good winning the ball in the air, holding it up and the Gerrard goal pass. He wasnt set as a straight striker and the role he was given by Capello, he played well enough. The chance he shot straight at Tim Howard wasnt ideal(obviously), but could another striker such as Bent etc, played the role that Heskey was set? I long for the days of out and out attack on the football pitch, but it rarely happens at international level. Sometime you just have to make do. And, no mention of this man........?

06-13-2010, 06:50 AM	#195
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	Out of the 5 games played thus far England has looked like the best team to me. Take away a bonehead mistake by their goalkeep and they have a clean sheet against an underrated US team. As a casual fan the talent in the England/US game seemed much greater than in the other 4 games.

06-13-2010, 08:26 AM	#197
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,567	Is algeria supposed to be the inferior team? It didn't look like that in the first half.

06-13-2010, 02:27 PM	#200
phightin All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 586	Just like to add I thought Heskey did fine as a target man yesterday. Not going to argue the fact that one of the things that hurts England is not having a comprable pure forward who can partner with Rooney, but when i've watched them over the last couple years Heskey always seemed the best option compared to Crouch. I also think it's clear as day as been said here Gerrard and Lampard can't work together as a central midfield duo. Not that they have many other options though at the moment. Lastly, it was a poor showing by Capello yesterday and I think his lack of managerial experience at the international level showed. Managing Internationally where everything is condensed down to 3 or 4 games during these huge tournaments, it isn't like club ball where you want to be making early substitutions and last minute player selection decisions. It can be argued that since each game is more meaningful you need to be making adjustments constantly but I highly disagree because it looks erratic and can unbalance your team severly which is more impactful over the course of 3-4 games. Again though the Ferdinand situation didn't help much. Also, I'm still a bit flustered by people putting down the US performance as lucky yesterday. Were they the better team than England, no, and did they get lucky with the goal, yes, but watching them religiously over the years they did what they had to do after the first 20 minutes. They got a little over ambitious stringing passes together throughout the back and middle third but they went forward after being scored on early and showed resiliency the first half. If you've been watching the US in more than just their recent games, and are able to analyze performance you would know that this was one of their better showings. Once we settled in I thought our back line did ok with the exception of Bocanegra. The real key which I would like to possibly see against Slovenia is Clark possibly being held off for a more attacking option in the center of the pitch for Torres/Feilhaber. I don't think Bradley will go for it, but it always balances our midfield more with Bradley Jr. being partnered with one of those attacking options when we face an opponent where we can get forward against more.