NFL Signings - Page 10

abailey3313 · 03-20-2006, 05:11 PM

dola,

By signing James, they can now use that draft pick they might've used on a RB to fill another hole. Just like the Saints signing Drew Brees, is allows them to look elsewhere in the draft and improve more than one position. If they have the money to do it, it's not a bad strategy. (And you might be forgetting the Cardinals did draft a running back, JJ Arrington, in last year's draft.)

Also, I don't understand how you can use the age/potential injury argument against Edgerrin James and recommend they sign Kevin Mawae at the same time. Mawae is 35 and coming off a season where he only played 6 games due to injury.

*EDIT: Arrington was a second round pick, 44th overall in 2005.

Slackker · 03-20-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spielman

Screen passes are a great way of taking the edge off the opposition's pass rush.

Even if unintentional.. this amused me. Is it because it's amusing, because I just woke up, or is it because the Cardinals spent a bunch of money and still won't win anything? You decide!

Gorilla Shakespeare · 03-20-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

dola,

By signing James, they can now use that draft pick they might've used on a RB to fill another hole. Just like the Saints signing Drew Brees, is allows them to look elsewhere in the draft and improve more than one position. If they have the money to do it, it's not a bad strategy. (And you might be forgetting the Cardinals did draft a running back, JJ Arrington, in last year's draft.)

Also, I don't understand how you can use the age/potential injury argument against Edgerrin James and recommend they sign Kevin Mawae at the same time. Mawae is 35 and coming off a season where he only played 6 games due to injury.

*EDIT: Arrington was a second round pick, 44th overall in 2005.

Because linemen age quite a bit more slowly than running backs. 28-30 is the point where a lot of good, even great running backs give up the ghost. However, linemen - offensive tackles in particular, but centers like Mawae still apply - age slowly and cost a lot less to boot. In addition, you can get a running back coming out of college who will be at close to 100% of his potential whereas it usally takes an O-lineman a couple years to mature in the NFL.

abailey3313 · 03-20-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla Shakespeare

Because linemen age quite a bit more slowly than running backs. 28-30 is the point where a lot of good, even great running backs give up the ghost. However, linemen - offensive tackles in particular, but centers like Mawae still apply - age slowly and cost a lot less to boot. In addition, you can get a running back coming out of college who will be at close to 100% of his potential whereas it usally takes an O-lineman a couple years to mature in the NFL.

I understand your point about the aging difference per position, but I don't understand using Mawae as an example of where the Cardinals would have better spent their money. No matter how you slice it, he's still eight years older than James. Yes, it would've been cheaper to sign Mawae. And yes, offensive linemen tend to age better. But if you really believe Mawae would've been a better signing than James, again, you're nuts.

(And as for "going after Steve Hutchinson" as you mentioned earlier -- you do realize that if he winds up staying in Seattle or even going to Minnesota, he's going to wind up making the largest salary of any offensive lineman in history, I believe. I understand his value, but you have to consider that not every team in the league is willing to dish out that kind of money. And keep in mind that Minnesota is farther under the cap than any team in the league, so they've got the flexibility.)

And if you think they should draft a running back, that doesn't make sense either. They did that last season. Why would they do it again?

abailey3313 · 03-20-2006, 06:34 PM

By the way, the Seahawks have lost their hearing regarding Steve Hutchinson, which means they have to either match the guaranteed money in the Vikings offer or lose the Pro Bowl guard to Minnesota.

Gorilla Shakespeare · 03-20-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

By the way, the Seahawks have lost their hearing regarding Steve Hutchinson, which means they have to either match the guaranteed money in the Vikings offer or lose the Pro Bowl guard to Minnesota.

Ugh, that is such BS. I hope Seattle retains him anyway, but how was that contract offer legal?

abailey3313 · 03-20-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla Shakespeare

Ugh, that is such BS. I hope Seattle retains him anyway, but how was that contract offer legal?

I don't even know what they were contesting to begin with.

Gorilla Shakespeare · 03-20-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

I don't even know what they were contesting to begin with.

The Vikings put a clause in the contract that says "if you are not the highest paid lineman on our team on Opening Day, we will guarantee your entire contract". Guess what? The Vikings don't have anybody on the line making near what Hutch is scheduled to make. And the Seahawks have Walter Jones. It was basically a "if you sign with us, your money won't be guaranteed, but if you sign with Seattle it will" kind of deal. The NFL thought they closed this loophole about a decade ago. Expect it to be closed the rest of the way in the next CBA.

edit: BTW, not the largest salary for an O-lineman. The largest salary for an offensive guard. IMO Hutch is one of the best guards in football history, so that's not so bad.

SJPhilsFan · 03-21-2006, 12:19 AM

Seattle hasn't matched the offer, Hutchinson goes to the Vikings.

The Seahawks have signed Julian Peterson for 7 yr/54 mil.

twins15 · 03-21-2006, 02:43 AM

abailey3313 · 03-21-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla Shakespeare

The Vikings put a clause in the contract that says "if you are not the highest paid lineman on our team on Opening Day, we will guarantee your entire contract". Guess what? The Vikings don't have anybody on the line making near what Hutch is scheduled to make. And the Seahawks have Walter Jones. It was basically a "if you sign with us, your money won't be guaranteed, but if you sign with Seattle it will" kind of deal. The NFL thought they closed this loophole about a decade ago. Expect it to be closed the rest of the way in the next CBA.

Well then the arbitrator made the right decision to rule in favor of the Vikings. If it's a loophole that is going to be removed, it's still a loophole. And just because the wording of the contract made it near impossible for Seattle to match, so what? Good business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJPhilsFan

The Seahawks have signed Julian Peterson for 7 yr/54 mil.

Damn. That takes him out of consideration to go to Miami.

Arlie Rahn · 03-21-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla Shakespeare

The Vikings put a clause in the contract that says "if you are not the highest paid lineman on our team on Opening Day, we will guarantee your entire contract".

That's not quite accurate. ESPN reported it was "highest paid offensive lineman" when the deal was signed. Seattle added a voidable year to Walter Jones' deal making him "lower paid" than Hutch, but the arbitrator stated that deal had to be in place when the deal was originally signed by Minnesota (not opening day). Minnesota could extend McKinnie today at $8 million a season and the guarantee clause wouldn't kick in (since it wasn't the case when he signed the deal).

So, in essence, the Seahawks had to "beat" the Vikings offer, not match it - as Hutch was highest paid Seattle OL when they created their offer yesterday (but he wasn't 2-3 weeks earlier - Jones was).

This is quite an open can of worms for RFA and transition tag players now. All contracts can now exploit certain aspects of teams tagging the players. At this point, I'm wondering what's stopping a team from stating "You get a $10 million bonus if any lineman on the roster has a birthday of March 15". These somewhat arbitrary clauses that clearly penalize one team over an other could really start to throw a wrench into the transition tag and/or RFA tags.

Then again, Seattle should have been smarter and used their Franchise on Hutschinson to begin with.

phenom · 03-21-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlie Rahn

That's not quite accurate. ESPN reported it was "highest paid offensive lineman" when the deal was signed. Seattle added a voidable year to Walter Jones' deal making him "lower paid" than Hutch, but the arbitrator stated that deal had to be in place when the deal was originally signed by Minnesota (not opening day). Minnesota could extend McKinnie today at $8 million a season and the guarantee clause wouldn't kick in (since it wasn't the case when he signed the deal).

So, in essence, the Seahawks had to "beat" the Vikings offer, not match it - as Hutch was highest paid Seattle OL when they created their offer yesterday (but he wasn't 2-3 weeks earlier - Jones was).

This is quite an open can of worms for RFA and transition tag players now. All contracts can now exploit certain aspects of teams tagging the players. At this point, I'm wondering what's stopping a team from stating "You get a $10 million bonus if any lineman on the roster has a birthday of March 15". These somewhat arbitrary clauses that clearly penalize one team over an other could really start to throw a wrench into the transition tag and/or RFA tags.

Then again, Seattle should have been smarter and used their Franchise on Hutschinson to begin with.

So will that be programmed into your next football game?

Spielman · 03-21-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlie Rahn

This is quite an open can of worms for RFA and transition tag players now. All contracts can now exploit certain aspects of teams tagging the players. At this point, I'm wondering what's stopping a team from stating "You get a $10 million bonus if any lineman on the roster has a birthday of March 15". These somewhat arbitrary clauses that clearly penalize one team over an other could really start to throw a wrench into the transition tag and/or RFA tags.

Actually, I think that particular clause would be against the rules because it would require a team to have to actually pay more than the other team. That was already settled in the CBA after the Will Wofford incident. The key here was that the money would have been guaranteed, but wouldn't technically involve any more money... the language in the CBA doesn't cover that, but it does cover a situation where the matching team would have to pony up more money than the signing team.

Still, that was my first thought... they could tie guarantees to just about anything, making it all but impossible for another team to match it.

atarizx3 · 03-21-2006, 06:41 PM

rumors are floating around stating Adam Vinatieri has signed with the Colts...

Jonzard · 03-21-2006, 06:43 PM

Yup

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2378824

JDOldSchool · 03-21-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atarizx3

rumors are floating around stating Adam Vinatieri has signed with the Colts...

I just heard this and my entire day has been ruined.

Spielman · 03-21-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I just heard this and my entire day has been ruined.

Wow. That's some karma moving in Indy's direction.

That, or Adam's gonna suck ass now.

kingcharlesxii · 03-21-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzard

Yup

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2378824

Crap. I thought he was the one guy the Packers would be sure to get.

Vris · 03-21-2006, 07:29 PM

Traitor. Turncoat. Bastard.

I hate having to root against him now. The Pats have so many holes, they are looking like Swiss Cheese right now.

03-20-2006, 05:11 PM	#181
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	dola, By signing James, they can now use that draft pick they might've used on a RB to fill another hole. Just like the Saints signing Drew Brees, is allows them to look elsewhere in the draft and improve more than one position. If they have the money to do it, it's not a bad strategy. (And you might be forgetting the Cardinals did draft a running back, JJ Arrington, in last year's draft.) Also, I don't understand how you can use the age/potential injury argument against Edgerrin James and recommend they sign Kevin Mawae at the same time. Mawae is 35 and coming off a season where he only played 6 games due to injury. *EDIT: Arrington was a second round pick, 44th overall in 2005. __________________ Last edited by abailey3313; 03-20-2006 at 05:13 PM.

03-20-2006, 06:34 PM	#185
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	By the way, the Seahawks have lost their hearing regarding Steve Hutchinson, which means they have to either match the guaranteed money in the Vikings offer or lose the Pro Bowl guard to Minnesota. __________________

03-21-2006, 12:19 AM	#189
SJPhilsFan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South NJ Posts: 72	Bad News/Good News for Seattle Seattle hasn't matched the offer, Hutchinson goes to the Vikings. The Seahawks have signed Julian Peterson for 7 yr/54 mil.

03-21-2006, 02:43 AM	#190
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	__________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

03-21-2006, 06:41 PM	#195
atarizx3 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Allenstown, NH Posts: 987	rumors are floating around stating Adam Vinatieri has signed with the Colts... __________________

03-21-2006, 06:43 PM	#196
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	Yup http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2378824 __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

03-21-2006, 07:29 PM	#200
Vris Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 3,251	Traitor. Turncoat. Bastard. I hate having to root against him now. The Pats have so many holes, they are looking like Swiss Cheese right now. __________________ None Blog it.