More Complex Contracts - Page 2

jdw · 12-11-2004, 07:13 PM

Contract shouldn't be hard at all. Championship Manager years ago (as in their 1996 version) had a wide variety of contract clauses:

* Goal Bonuses (extra cash for scoring goals)

* Trophy Bonuses (for team success)

* Relegation Release Clause (if your team got sent down, the player became a free agent - you're basically screwed)

* Big Club Clause (the player can force a transfer if a Big Club comes asking)

This was prior to the Bossman Ruling brought wide spread free agency to Euro Football, and I believe that more recent versions of Championship Manager have far more complicated contract clauses and rules. I suspect it's something Markus can discuss with his new partners.

Escalating Contracts and Signing Bonuses would be a wonderful addition. It would make for real interesting free agency dealing, as discussed. You have both cash on hand, and players leaving in a year or two. But you're restricted on Payroll this year. Give a player a big signing bonus, and back end their contract with a low number this season to fit under the contract. You're overall contract vaule tops the other offers... you've got your man.

It also would make for more interesting and far more realistic signing of young players (ala the Indians of the 90s and the A's of the last 5 years) to multi-year deals rather than the no-brainer of allowe arbitration in the current game.

As a side bar, and I suspect others have suggested this - I wish you could set Economics to a Historical Level like one can do for the Stats. I really hate simming the 70s with current payrolls. It would be more interesting that as you draw in a new year of data from the various historical databases if you were given the prompt to put in:

(i) Average Salary

(ii) Minimum Salary

(iii) Highest Salary

(iv) Longest Contract Length

(v) Highest Payroll (or Salary Cap if being used)

Doing a historical league, these things vary over time... but we're stuck with off the charts payroll numbers.

This seems more complicated than the other salary requests. But if someone can figure out how to do those historical adjustments/recalculations for Stats, one would think they could for Payroll.

John

notareus · 12-12-2004, 01:13 AM

I like the idea of adding historical realism to salaries, prospectively as well as retorspectively as you suggest. Another thing that's very unrealistic is the attendance and ticket prices. there are also other things that can derive revenue, such as parking, concessions, stadium rentals, etc.

Long_Long_Name · 12-12-2004, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notareus

I like the idea of adding historical realism to salaries, prospectively as well as retorspectively as you suggest. Another thing that's very unrealistic is the attendance and ticket prices. there are also other things that can derive revenue, such as parking, concessions, stadium rentals, etc.

Stadiums don't always belong to the ballclubs. Some have to pay to play in their stadium, some own it, it's different for each team.

Why is the attendance unrealistic?

Ticket prices: I agree. Like the 1st row seats and the bleachers would really cost the same thing

.

benchwarmer · 12-12-2004, 12:23 PM

I agree, i think adding different seating prices would be good. I know 1st row seats are 70 bucks or more in some cases for the sox, where grand stand seats are only 20 bucks, and standing rooms are like 10 bucks. I'd love to get mroe depth in this area.

Anachronism · 12-14-2004, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoteQuimby

I don't think that the more complex contracts would be that hard to code in, especially escalating amounts for each year.

Other additions would be no trade clauses or for stars, refusing trades to poor teams (limited no trade clause), performance bonuses (although with this, it might get to tedious in the negotiating phases having to deal with all of the free agents and their individual demands).

Wow... I'm just thinking about how to code this change into the game and still include the option for a salary cap. If you don't include incentives in the cap, then people can exploit the cap to high heaven.... but then, how do you include incentives in the cap when they might not be triggered?

ctorg · 12-14-2004, 11:57 AM

I think we were onto something about dealing with dollar inflation and contracts in this thread.

It's not as complex as what's suggested above, but I think it would go a long way towards helping with historical realism, especially if a "reserve clause" option is in place and players can hold out for higher wages.

CardinalChris · 12-14-2004, 11:08 PM

Option years would be nice, as well as buyouts.

Example, 4 years @ 12 mil, a 5th year team option @ 14 mil, with a 3 mil buyout.

Team doesn't want to front that extra cash the 5th year, they pay him 3 mil and get out form the contract.

f.montoya · 12-15-2004, 11:36 AM

Great idea. I'd love to deal with a more complex system with more options when it comes to contracts. It adds some needed challenge for the business side of the game. It'd be great for my solo leagues for sure but potentially a hell of a lot of work for a commissioner of an online league to deal with. I'm 100% for it though as an added "option" that has a switch.

notareus · 12-15-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardinalChris

Option years would be nice, as well as buyouts.

Example, 4 years @ 12 mil, a 5th year team option @ 14 mil, with a 3 mil buyout.

Team doesn't want to front that extra cash the 5th year, they pay him 3 mil and get out form the contract.

I agree, these would be real nice touches.

Braves_Blue · 12-16-2004, 11:13 PM

I would love to see a tendency toward more one-year contracts as well. It seems like there are a whole lot of guys signing one year deals now, and I can only get older players like Rheal Cormier to sign a one-year deal in OOTP6. All players should at least consider it.

datrain021 · 12-17-2004, 12:41 PM

I kind of agree. I think if a certain player has an off year the year before becoming a FA, it would be more realistic for it to look for a one year deal than to take a multi year contract based on their bad stats the year before.

datrain021 · 12-17-2004, 12:44 PM

Also, they need to make it possible to take a player off the 40 man with a ML contract. Maybe make it so that contracts with a certain dollar amount have to be on the 40, but like players making the ML minimum who your trying to send off the 40 man roster shouldnt mean you lose them (provided theyre not claimed)

notareus · 12-17-2004, 10:40 PM

I agree, the AI needs to be adjusted to account for the possibility; also would apply in cases where a player may be injury ptone &/or be coming back after major injury. of course, you don't have to offer....

UngratefulDead · 12-25-2004, 02:06 PM

Yes, yes, yes. I was about to post something similar to this. Beyond improved AI there is nothing I'd rather see in OOTP 7. At the bare minimum, back and frontloaded contracts, no trade clauses, and option years. None of those seem like they'd be that hard to add. Things I'd really love to see but might be more difficult:

Incentive clauses
Hometown discounts
Player - Coach relationships (Some players will come cheaper to some managers i.e. Moises and Felipe Alou this year)

Something that would be really cool but that I haven't really thought about is a perk system. Something along the lines of Randy Johnson's free Suns tickets, etc.

There could be a whole list of possible perks you could include with contracts. Maybe you'd have a limited number of perks per team so you'd have to decide which players are worth it. I'm not really sure how this would work but it would be really neat to have a superstar signed to a front-loaded contract with MVP incentives, a personal jet (or perhaps a clubhouse armchair

) and a no-trade clause to assorted smaller-market teams.

endgame · 12-26-2004, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UngratefulDead

At the bare minimum, back and frontloaded contracts, no trade clauses, and option years. love to see but might be more difficult:

Incentive clauses
Hometown discounts
Player - Coach relationships

a perk system.

contract with MVP incentives

All really neat ideas. The more depth, complexity, and options the better. In addition, I'd just noted in another forum it'd be great if all these contracts (in all their details - extensions, options, etc....) were kept as a part of the player's salary history to offer up a clear picture of his, let's say, Earnings Report.

rostrow416 · 12-26-2004, 02:35 AM

the player insurance idea isnt all that high up on my list...part of the fun and frustration of the game is getting burned on big free agent signings. and in real life these policies are way to complex.

option years, player and club, sound great. how about players not always going for the biggest money contract? adrian beltre signed with seattle when other clubs admitted to offering more.

more options for the team markets, and more owner attributes would be great. have owners be cheap, or want to go for broke, demand certain deals be done, that sort of thing.

12-14-2004, 11:57 AM	#26
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I think we were onto something about dealing with dollar inflation and contracts in this thread. It's not as complex as what's suggested above, but I think it would go a long way towards helping with historical realism, especially if a "reserve clause" option is in place and players can hold out for higher wages. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

12-15-2004, 11:36 AM	#28
f.montoya Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,077	Great idea. I'd love to deal with a more complex system with more options when it comes to contracts. It adds some needed challenge for the business side of the game. It'd be great for my solo leagues for sure but potentially a hell of a lot of work for a commissioner of an online league to deal with. I'm 100% for it though as an added "option" that has a switch. __________________ Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball League ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) Ex-Web Host Current Mod Maker??

12-17-2004, 10:40 PM	#33
notareus Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Somewhere in Red Sox Nation: "Baseball is Life; the rest are just details" Posts: 132	I agree, the AI needs to be adjusted to account for the possibility; also would apply in cases where a player may be injury ptone &/or be coming back after major injury. of course, you don't have to offer.... __________________ Member, Red Sox Nation

12-11-2004, 07:13 PM	#21
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Contract shouldn't be hard at all. Championship Manager years ago (as in their 1996 version) had a wide variety of contract clauses: * Goal Bonuses (extra cash for scoring goals) * Trophy Bonuses (for team success) * Relegation Release Clause (if your team got sent down, the player became a free agent - you're basically screwed) * Big Club Clause (the player can force a transfer if a Big Club comes asking) This was prior to the Bossman Ruling brought wide spread free agency to Euro Football, and I believe that more recent versions of Championship Manager have far more complicated contract clauses and rules. I suspect it's something Markus can discuss with his new partners. Escalating Contracts and Signing Bonuses would be a wonderful addition. It would make for real interesting free agency dealing, as discussed. You have both cash on hand, and players leaving in a year or two. But you're restricted on Payroll this year. Give a player a big signing bonus, and back end their contract with a low number this season to fit under the contract. You're overall contract vaule tops the other offers... you've got your man. It also would make for more interesting and far more realistic signing of young players (ala the Indians of the 90s and the A's of the last 5 years) to multi-year deals rather than the no-brainer of allowe arbitration in the current game. As a side bar, and I suspect others have suggested this - I wish you could set Economics to a Historical Level like one can do for the Stats. I really hate simming the 70s with current payrolls. It would be more interesting that as you draw in a new year of data from the various historical databases if you were given the prompt to put in: (i) Average Salary (ii) Minimum Salary (iii) Highest Salary (iv) Longest Contract Length (v) Highest Payroll (or Salary Cap if being used) Doing a historical league, these things vary over time... but we're stuck with off the charts payroll numbers. This seems more complicated than the other salary requests. But if someone can figure out how to do those historical adjustments/recalculations for Stats, one would think they could for Payroll. John

12-12-2004, 01:13 AM	#22
notareus Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Somewhere in Red Sox Nation: "Baseball is Life; the rest are just details" Posts: 132	I like the idea of adding historical realism to salaries, prospectively as well as retorspectively as you suggest. Another thing that's very unrealistic is the attendance and ticket prices. there are also other things that can derive revenue, such as parking, concessions, stadium rentals, etc.

12-12-2004, 12:23 PM	#24
benchwarmer Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 1,461	I agree, i think adding different seating prices would be good. I know 1st row seats are 70 bucks or more in some cases for the sox, where grand stand seats are only 20 bucks, and standing rooms are like 10 bucks. I'd love to get mroe depth in this area.

12-14-2004, 11:08 PM	#27
CardinalChris Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Norther Puget Sound - Washington Posts: 22	Option years would be nice, as well as buyouts. Example, 4 years @ 12 mil, a 5th year team option @ 14 mil, with a 3 mil buyout. Team doesn't want to front that extra cash the 5th year, they pay him 3 mil and get out form the contract.

12-16-2004, 11:13 PM	#30
Braves_Blue Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	I would love to see a tendency toward more one-year contracts as well. It seems like there are a whole lot of guys signing one year deals now, and I can only get older players like Rheal Cormier to sign a one-year deal in OOTP6. All players should at least consider it.

12-17-2004, 12:41 PM	#31
datrain021 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	I kind of agree. I think if a certain player has an off year the year before becoming a FA, it would be more realistic for it to look for a one year deal than to take a multi year contract based on their bad stats the year before.

12-17-2004, 12:44 PM	#32
datrain021 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	Also, they need to make it possible to take a player off the 40 man with a ML contract. Maybe make it so that contracts with a certain dollar amount have to be on the 40, but like players making the ML minimum who your trying to send off the 40 man roster shouldnt mean you lose them (provided theyre not claimed)

12-25-2004, 02:06 PM	#34
UngratefulDead Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 3,415	Yes, yes, yes. I was about to post something similar to this. Beyond improved AI there is nothing I'd rather see in OOTP 7. At the bare minimum, back and frontloaded contracts, no trade clauses, and option years. None of those seem like they'd be that hard to add. Things I'd really love to see but might be more difficult: Incentive clauses Hometown discounts Player - Coach relationships (Some players will come cheaper to some managers i.e. Moises and Felipe Alou this year) Something that would be really cool but that I haven't really thought about is a perk system. Something along the lines of Randy Johnson's free Suns tickets, etc. There could be a whole list of possible perks you could include with contracts. Maybe you'd have a limited number of perks per team so you'd have to decide which players are worth it. I'm not really sure how this would work but it would be really neat to have a superstar signed to a front-loaded contract with MVP incentives, a personal jet (or perhaps a clubhouse armchair ) and a no-trade clause to assorted smaller-market teams.

12-26-2004, 02:35 AM	#36
rostrow416 Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	the player insurance idea isnt all that high up on my list...part of the fun and frustration of the game is getting burned on big free agent signings. and in real life these policies are way to complex. option years, player and club, sound great. how about players not always going for the biggest money contract? adrian beltre signed with seattle when other clubs admitted to offering more. more options for the team markets, and more owner attributes would be great. have owners be cheap, or want to go for broke, demand certain deals be done, that sort of thing.