All the "this doesn't work" and "that doesn't work" threads

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

How do you figure no one would know? It's evident something is amiss every time someone has a league where talent doesn't match historical.

LTMs are great for testers of pure historical scenarios. Not so great for anyone who wants an alternate history. And that is what most "historical" players are doing. A plausible variation on history.

It's a computer game, meaning numbers under the hood can be massaged to match what is going on if that's what it takes. The computer simply adjusts talent to work within league settings. You as a user don't know this as you don't even know that LT's or LTM's exist. Remember in my post I said they should have kept them hidden from the start

How big of an alternate history? Folks love to use Ruth for these discussions so let's go with1927. I'd say the 1927 LT give a good flavor of baseball at that time. Player creation for that era should not be making a lot of
power bats. If you got one extra "Ruth" by chance then he probably hits 30 HR's, a very plausible number. The real Ruth might also hit 30 HR, just as plausible. If you're looking to destroy real world 1927 numbers because of dice rolls, importing Mays, Aaron, Killebrew, and Bonds, or changing PCMs etc. etc. etc. I think you're looking for a "fantasy" and not "plausible variation" of the 1927 era.

If you want to go to the hyperbole question of "what if there were 8 Ruths" then you are certainly in a fantasy world and nowhere near variation.

At the end of the day the game engine and outcomes are based on LT, LTM, and ratings. This is by design and works quite well. Matt has said they are trying to rely less on LTM's and I think that is as close as you are ever going to get to what you want, unless they rewrite a large chunk of the game. I don't see it, but I'm not a coder for OOTP Dev.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by David Watts

To be honest, historical isn't really historical once you start letting guys play seasons they didn't in real life. Shoeless Joe playing the 1921 season is fictional. Sandy Koufax playing past the 66 season is fictional. If one was to clone Babe Ruth in 1927 and put one on each team, I agree it should not result in each Babe Ruth hitting 10 home runs. That being said, what is the solution for a game that is trying to provide a method of replicating historical seasons? Wouldn't getting things as accurate as possible in terms of true hisorical play be the most important thing?

Think about this.

1927. LTMs run auto calc on the ratings. Ruth/Gehrig combine for about 107 HRS. MLB hits about 922. Cool.

So let's say Ruth/Gehrig are injured in the first game and lost for the season. This is after auto calc has run. Their 107 HRs are lost and MLB hits around 815. That is also cool. Even though it isn't close to historical league totals. Because we know what happened and don't expect it to be close to historical league totals.

Now let's say Ruth/Gehrig are injured in spring training and lost for the season. But on opening day LTMs run auto calc on the ratings and adjust them so other players get the 107 HRs. MLB hits around 922. NOT cool. Because now the individual players aren't producing realistically.

None of this would matter if the ratings could produce realistic per player output. Their totals would put MLB on the money. But the ratings aren't capable of that.

LTMs fix the problem only for dead historical leagues. And most people don't play that way.

Then there's the issue of ratings lost by adjust/weaken are given by the LTMs to players who weren't subject to adjust weaken. The ratings changes should be confined to the pool of players subject to adjust/weaken.

This is a great game. It has faults. Some people pretend it's perfect.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

It's a computer game, meaning numbers under the hood can be massaged to match what is going on if that's what it takes. The computer simply adjusts talent to work within league settings. You as a user don't know this as you don't even know that LT's or LTM's exist. Remember in my post I said they should have kept them hidden from the start

You assume everyone is too stupid to notice errant behavior.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

If you got one extra "Ruth" by chance then he probably hits 30 HR's, a very plausible number. The real Ruth might also hit 30 HR, just as plausible. If you're looking to destroy real world 1927 numbers because of dice rolls, importing Mays, Aaron, Killebrew, and Bonds, or changing PCMs etc. etc. etc. I think you're looking for a "fantasy" and not "plausible variation" of the 1927 era.

If you want to go to the hyperbole question of "what if there were 8 Ruths" then you are certainly in a fantasy world and nowhere near variation.

No fantasy needed for my example of the league output being different depending on when Ruth/Gehrig were injured for the season.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

If you want to go to the hyperbole question of "what if there were 8 Ruths" then you are certainly in a fantasy world and nowhere near variation.

That's the example started by Matt and Garlon. Talk to them about it. It's their deal.

[Rain King]

Just. Don't. Run. Auto Calc.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Just. Don't. Run. Auto Calc.

Please read the thread. I explained the problem with that.

[Brad K]

Looks like the disciples are showing up. GET MORE CROSSES! And more nails. LOTS more.

[Garlon]

Matt is not lying. You just do not interpret his statements correctly. They flipped the entire engine around for this game and changed the scale out to over 500. In many instances the modifiers will appear closer to 1.000, but that is not the same as doing away with them or moving toward not needing them. I mean 1.050 is pretty close to 1.000, right? Well, a league that bats .265 vs a league that bats .265/1.05 = .252 and there is a huge difference in offensive production between a league that bats .252 vs a league that bats .265

Matt has done a tremendous job on his end to improve the game.

Regarding have 100 copies of babe Ruth in the league, I told you to load the premade modifiers and then turn off auto recalculate modifiers. The premade modifiers from the file are there to actually be used with historical Exhibition games from the main menu so the game has everything it needs to produce accurate results for that type of play. If you load those modifiers the game assumes there is only 1 Ruth in the league and every time all of the 100 copies Babe Ruth bat they will have the same chance to hit a HR, so you will get a huge offensive explosion in that league, just do not complain that your league ERA is high though. This is the same as if Babe Ruth was injured for the whole season. Since the premade modifiers assume he is in the league then all of those HR will simply be missing, minus whatever his replacement hits for the season. You can model those situations with the options available in the game.

You want TCR, then use it. You want players to not retire according to history then use it. You want to play with 24 teams in 1950 instead of 16, then do that. There is a toggle for everything you want to do in the game

[Garlon]

This is Mariano Rivera from a recent 1871-2023 game with OOTP25. This is not a replay league with real lineups and transactions. Players could end up on any team.


Mariano Rivera

Real vs OOTP


ERA: 2.21 vs 2.19

Games: 1115 vs 1104

WHIP: 1.00 vs 0.97

HR per 9 innings: 0.497 vs 0.559

BB per 9 innings: 2.005 vs 2.017

K per 9 innings: 8.224 vs 8.276

K:BB ratio: 4.101 vs 4.102

HBP per 500 BF: 4.507 vs 4.018

Balks: 3 vs 2

FIP: 2.76 vs 2.89

Opponent BABIP: .265 vs .255

Opponent BA: .211 vs .204

Opponent OPS: .555 vs .564

Save %: 89.07% vs 90.78%

[Rain King]

Looks fine to me.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Looks like the disciples are showing up. GET MORE CROSSES! And more nails. LOTS more.

Trolling or frustrated? Either way it's not a good look.

I honestly don't think this game is going to be what you want.

On occasion I like to play wargames. I've tried quite a few over many years and have found the grand total of two the kept my attention. Despite other users telling me that game x,y, or z was realistic and the greatest game ever, I didn't see it. I listened to their reasoning, didn't agree, and moved on.

[Garlon]

Warren Spahn

He real W-L was 363-245 during a career in which he had 4.5 R/G in offensive support. In OOTP he went 310-218 with only 3.9 R/G in offensive support.


Real vs OOTP


ERA: 3.09 vs 3.12

GS: 665 vs 660

IPouts: 15731 vs 15216

WHIP: 1.195 vs 1.165

HR per 9 innings: 0.744 vs 0.732

BB per 9 innings: 2.461 vs 2.503

K per 9 innings: 4.433 vs 4.375

K:BB ratio: 1.801 vs 1.747

HBP per 500 BF: 0.974 vs 1.438

Balks: 5 vs 12

FIP: 3.46 vs 3.56

Opponent BABIP: .261 vs .251

Opponent BA: .244 vs .236

Opponent OPS: .653 vs .643

[Brad K]

Garlon, you're addressing the irrelevant. It's common knowledge that the game produces good number with pure historical "let's watch them play" saves.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Garlon

Matt is not lying. You just do not interpret his statements correctly.

Read it again. I didn't say Matt was lying to me. I said I was TOLD Matt was lying to me. I believe what he posted. I do not believe what you posted.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Trolling or frustrated? Either way it's not a good look.

I honestly don't think this game is going to be what you want.

Matt says it's moving that way. But we have a group here claiming it works just fine as is.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Trolling or frustrated? Either way it's not a good look.

I honestly don't think this game is going to be what you want.

On occasion I like to play wargames. I've tried quite a few over many years and have found the grand total of two the kept my attention. Despite other users telling me that game x,y, or z was realistic and the greatest game ever, I didn't see it. I listened to their reasoning, didn't agree, and moved on.

The game can do what he wants. He just wants it to do it by using magic instead of math.

[Garlon]

Since nobody else has asked:

[Guthrien]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Trolling or frustrated? Either way it's not a good look.

I honestly don't think this game is going to be what you want.

On occasion I like to play wargames. I've tried quite a few over many years and have found the grand total of two the kept my attention. Despite other users telling me that game x,y, or z was realistic and the greatest game ever, I didn't see it. I listened to their reasoning, didn't agree, and moved on.

What two games? I want to let WW2 play out and see what occurs.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by Guthrien

What two games? I want to let WW2 play out and see what occurs.

The question is what happens if you manually import 100,000 Ted Williams into the conflict or randomly debut a 1980 U.S.S. Nimitz into the game the day before the attack on Pearl Harbor. I did the latter in those WWII games. No effect. Bummer. Next time, I'll try experimenting with Philadelphia. See if it delivers as I hope. Not changing any settings though.