Strategy Override Never Seems To Work

texasmame · 08-18-2023, 06:51 PM

I'm about to start the playoffs and one team in particular has irked me all year.

This team, which I'm not in control of (I am in commish mode, tho) insists on starting Barry Bonds in LF over Frank Robinson, which they start at DH.

I've tried with the LOCK feature of player strategy to make Bonds go DH and Robinson start in LF to no avail. I've attached their defensive comparisons and their fielding stats are like you would expect; Frank's fine and Barry's terrible.

This seems like a glaring AI error and would like to fix it for the playoffs but, short of going in and doing a lineup for them each game, there doesn't seem to be a way to do this.

Advice?

HonusWagner · 08-18-2023, 07:06 PM

Fastest fix would be to simply switch identities - swap name and picture and you're good.

snepp · 08-18-2023, 07:13 PM

Temp fix, head to the editor and remove all of Bonds positional experience from LF and see if they still try to force him into the field.

thehef · 08-18-2023, 07:57 PM

I think - but am not certain - that this is a known issue, but not necessarily a bug. Rather, a feature...

My understanding is that if OOTP AI controls a team, it will override or reset any Strategy settings you might put in place for a player. For example, I remember some time ago that OOTP AI always wanted Pete Rose to bat second. I didn't want to go as far as using historical lineups, but I wanted him batting first, like in real life. Try as I might, I couldn't get AI to do that despite using the "Force Lineup Spot" options... unless I took control of the Reds.

That all said, I haven't tested this out in some time, and OOTP has so many options and maybe some new ones, so there may be a way to do what you're trying to do and/or what I described with Rose... Not sure. Hopefully someone here knows for sure.

texasmame · 08-18-2023, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

I think - but am not certain - that this is a known issue, but not necessarily a bug. Rather, a feature...

My understanding is that if OOTP AI controls a team, it will override or reset any Strategy settings you might put in place for a player. For example, I remember some time ago that OOTP AI always wanted Pete Rose to bat second. I didn't want to go as far as using historical lineups, but I wanted him batting first, like in real life. Try as I might, I couldn't get AI to do that despite using the "Force Lineup Spot" options... unless I took control of the Reds.

That all said, I haven't tested this out in some time, and OOTP has so many options and maybe some new ones, so there may be a way to do what you're trying to do and/or what I described with Rose... Not sure. Hopefully someone here knows for sure.

Certainly sounds more like a "bug" than feature.

I don't care where they bat them, I just want the guy who is a stiff in the field but has a big bat to be the DH - as he should.

snepp · 08-18-2023, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasmame

I don't care where they bat them, I just want the guy who is a stiff in the field but has a big bat to be the DH - as he should.

I see this a lot with my teams. I control lineups but I always ask the manager to set them first, then I'll "override" him at times. They love to stick an absolutely horrendous fielder at 1st, with the excellent fielder at DH.

OutS|der · 08-18-2023, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snepp

I see this a lot with my teams. I control lineups but I always ask the manager to set them first, then I'll "override" him at times. They love to stick an absolutely horrendous fielder at 1st, with the excellent fielder at DH.

Yeah it's a feature

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

If the AI is in control of the team, then no, none of the strategy settings or locks will work. The only way to fully prevent that is to either yourself be in control of the team, or use the "prevent AI roster moves" checkbox in the team settings, although that will prevent all AI roster moves.

More in depth can be found here

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=327666

MathBandit · 08-18-2023, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasmame

Certainly sounds more like a "bug" than feature.

I don't care where they bat them, I just want the guy who is a stiff in the field but has a big bat to be the DH - as he should.

Keep in mind that there's a lot more to the decision than just putting the better fielder in LF and the worse fielder at DH. Its entirely possible that the *correct* decision is what the AI is doing, and we can't tell since you haven't provided the batting ratings/stats.

texasmame · 08-19-2023, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Keep in mind that there's a lot more to the decision than just putting the better fielder in LF and the worse fielder at DH. Its entirely possible that the *correct* decision is what the AI is doing, and we can't tell since you haven't provided the batting ratings/stats.

Why would their batter stats or ratings matter when it comes to what position they play? They're both going to be in the lineup and I don't want to change where they HIT, just where they play in the field.

MathBandit · 08-19-2023, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasmame

Why would their batter stats or ratings matter when it comes to what position they play? They're both going to be in the lineup and I don't want to change where they HIT, just where they play in the field.

Because its (potentially) a lot easier to substitute your DH than it is to substitute your OF in late-game situations.

If you want to bring in your lefty 1B bench bat to PH for Robinson, or your backup IF to run for him, then that takes two subs if he's in LF compared to one if he's the DH.

Pelican · 08-19-2023, 11:17 AM

I’m confused. I thought that the advent of the “lock” strategy option was intended to enable the Commissioner to control batting order and position in the field (an to prevent a player being sent down to the minors). If the AI manager can override these “locks”, what good are they? I too get frustrated by nonsensical AI moves with players on other teams, that clearly hurt. Often after I play a series, I “correct” these errors to make that team more competitive (after I have played them, of course!). To me that is restoring integrity to the game. It would be a shame to see it washed away by the same flawed logic I was trying to prevent.

texasmame · 08-19-2023, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Because its (potentially) a lot easier to substitute your DH than it is to substitute your OF in late-game situations.

If you want to bring in your lefty 1B bench bat to PH for Robinson, or your backup IF to run for him, then that takes two subs if he's in LF compared to one if he's the DH.

*shrug*

I guess but it seems like a poor strategy to sacrifice LF defense for an entire game for moves you may or may not have to make late in a game.

That's some Jimy Williams right there.

Bluenoser · 08-19-2023, 01:07 PM

The lock strategy option was intended to enable the "GM/Manager" to control those things. It was never intended for the Commish to control.

I understand and respect that every one plays their own way, but imho, if you want to manage the team, then manage it. Why should you be allowed to go and over ride the decisions of another teams manager?

Like others I also question some the AI decisions at times. However I also question some of the decisions I see being made by real life MLB GM's and Managers.

Seems realistic to me.

YMMV

Syd Thrift · 08-19-2023, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican

I’m confused. I thought that the advent of the “lock” strategy option was intended to enable the Commissioner to control batting order and position in the field (an to prevent a player being sent down to the minors). If the AI manager can override these “locks”, what good are they? I too get frustrated by nonsensical AI moves with players on other teams, that clearly hurt. Often after I play a series, I “correct” these errors to make that team more competitive (after I have played them, of course!). To me that is restoring integrity to the game. It would be a shame to see it washed away by the same flawed logic I was trying to prevent.

I use the setting all the time when I'm controlling teams, for two purposes:

1. Making sure that a guy who's in the minor leagues gets all of his experience at one position, if for example you have a hole at 2B and you have a quality middle infielder down there.

2. If you control a team but sim out individual games (or sim games until the 7th as I do), this prevents the AI from using a guy at a different position or dropping him down in the order (there's one player in particular in my save whom the AI for some reason loooooves to bat 7th or 8th in spite of the fact that he's led the league in HRs before). Sure, you could just change players in the lineup screen but that feels like too much work when you can just lock a player into a position/lineup slot.

08-18-2023, 06:51 PM	#1
texasmame All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Planet Texas Posts: 1,643	Strategy Override Never Seems To Work I'm about to start the playoffs and one team in particular has irked me all year. This team, which I'm not in control of (I am in commish mode, tho) insists on starting Barry Bonds in LF over Frank Robinson, which they start at DH. I've tried with the LOCK feature of player strategy to make Bonds go DH and Robinson start in LF to no avail. I've attached their defensive comparisons and their fielding stats are like you would expect; Frank's fine and Barry's terrible. This seems like a glaring AI error and would like to fix it for the playoffs but, short of going in and doing a lineup for them each game, there doesn't seem to be a way to do this. Advice? Attached Images __________________ Managing and rebuilding the 100-loss BURBANK BLACK BARONS. Defeated the TAIWAN EXPLOSIVE GO SALMON (99-63) in seven games to win the WORLD SERIES!

08-19-2023, 11:17 AM	#11
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,978	I’m confused. I thought that the advent of the “lock” strategy option was intended to enable the Commissioner to control batting order and position in the field (an to prevent a player being sent down to the minors). If the AI manager can override these “locks”, what good are they? I too get frustrated by nonsensical AI moves with players on other teams, that clearly hurt. Often after I play a series, I “correct” these errors to make that team more competitive (after I have played them, of course!). To me that is restoring integrity to the game. It would be a shame to see it washed away by the same flawed logic I was trying to prevent. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

08-19-2023, 01:07 PM	#13
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,209	The lock strategy option was intended to enable the "GM/Manager" to control those things. It was never intended for the Commish to control. I understand and respect that every one plays their own way, but imho, if you want to manage the team, then manage it. Why should you be allowed to go and over ride the decisions of another teams manager? Like others I also question some the AI decisions at times. However I also question some of the decisions I see being made by real life MLB GM's and Managers. Seems realistic to me. YMMV Last edited by Bluenoser; 08-19-2023 at 01:08 PM.

08-18-2023, 07:06 PM	#2
HonusWagner All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 521	Fastest fix would be to simply switch identities - swap name and picture and you're good.

08-18-2023, 07:13 PM	#3
snepp All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,482	Temp fix, head to the editor and remove all of Bonds positional experience from LF and see if they still try to force him into the field.

08-18-2023, 07:57 PM	#4
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	I think - but am not certain - that this is a known issue, but not necessarily a bug. Rather, a feature... My understanding is that if OOTP AI controls a team, it will override or reset any Strategy settings you might put in place for a player. For example, I remember some time ago that OOTP AI always wanted Pete Rose to bat second. I didn't want to go as far as using historical lineups, but I wanted him batting first, like in real life. Try as I might, I couldn't get AI to do that despite using the "Force Lineup Spot" options... unless I took control of the Reds. That all said, I haven't tested this out in some time, and OOTP has so many options and maybe some new ones, so there may be a way to do what you're trying to do and/or what I described with Rose... Not sure. Hopefully someone here knows for sure.