13 pitcher max rule?

[brigmcneil]

I cannot find any setting that enforces MLB's limit of 13 pitchers on the 26-man roster. Is it there? If so, where do I find it to confirm the limit?

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by brigmcneil

I cannot find any setting that enforces MLB's limit of 13 pitchers on the 26-man roster. Is it there? If so, where do I find it to confirm the limit?

I do not believe this is specifically included as a rule at this point. However, it is essentially included from an AI stand-point under League Settings --> General AI Roster Settings by allowing you to set the "Typical Rotation Size" and "Number of Relievers".

[Carplos]

There's not a rule, but I don't think teams deviate from the settings for number of Starters/Relievers/Number of Position Players in the Stats & AI screen.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Carplos

There's not a rule, but I don't think teams deviate from the settings for number of Starters/Relievers/Number of Position Players in the Stats & AI screen.

IIRC it is now a rule in real life, although it wasn't for ages.

[kq76]

Yeah, it came in at some point in the middle of last year. I remember hearing about it, but not being too fazed about it as I thought most teams probably didn't have more than 13 pitchers, maybe 14.

EDIT: And reading that article now I see I was wrong. 18 teams had 14 at the time while 1 had 15. Well, I'm glad they finally do it. I remember back when we had 25 man rosters I thought teams shouldn't have more than 12, maybe 13 pitchers.

EDIT2: FWIW, I just tested it with a new MLB2023 league and OOTP24 is usually, but not always, following it. So I reported it. I'm sure they'll get to it soon.

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

IIRC it is now a rule in real life, although it wasn't for ages.

Yeah, it became a rule last year. I meant in terms of OOTP it's not an option as a rule.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Yeah, it became a rule last year. I meant in terms of OOTP it's not an option as a rule.

Not an option as a rule, but you can easily control the amount of pitchers each team carries, both starters and relievers. Just set it on the Stats & AI Tab in league setup.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Not an option as a rule, but you can easily control the amount of pitchers each team carries, both starters and relievers. Just set it on the Stats & AI Tab in league setup.

Not exactly actually. The manual includes the words "typical number" when talking about those settings. For example, "The typical number of non-pitchers carried on the roster by a team in a league where the designated hitter rule is used.". I once thought it was a hard rule too, but with only checking 3 days, each 2 months apart, I found, I think it was, 6 instances where teams had 14 pitchers, even with settings that look like they should be limited to 13.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Yeah, it became a rule last year. I meant in terms of OOTP it's not an option as a rule.

The limitation appeared in the 2021 Major League Rules, although it seems the restriction was suspended for that season.

MLR 2(b)(2)(A)

From Opening Day through August 31 of the championship season and during postseason games, the minimum number of players who may be placed on an Active List for a Major League Club shall be 25, and the maximum number of players who may be placed on an Active List for a Major League Club shall be 26. Major League Clubs may carry a maximum of 13 pitchers on the Active List during this period.

MLR 2(b)(2)(B)

From September 1 through the end of the championship season (including any tiebreaker games), all Major League Clubs must carry 28 players on the Active List. Major League Clubs may carry a maximum of 14 pitchers on the Active List during this period.

[Carplos]

That says they may carry a maximum of 13, I thought as of last year they *had* to carry 13.

Could be wrong, though, but I thought that was the talk coming out of the lockout.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Carplos

That says they may carry a maximum of 13, I thought as of last year they *had* to carry 13.

Could be wrong, though, but I thought that was the talk coming out of the lockout.

No, it was always about limiting the maximum number of pitchers on the active roster, as some clubs were loading up on them.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

No, it was always about limiting the maximum number of pitchers on the active roster, as some clubs were loading up on them.

It is great to see you on the boards again. Welcome back!

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by kq76

Not exactly actually. The manual includes the words "typical number" when talking about those settings. For example, "The typical number of non-pitchers carried on the roster by a team in a league where the designated hitter rule is used.". I once thought it was a hard rule too, but with only checking 3 days, each 2 months apart, I found, I think it was, 6 instances where teams had 14 pitchers, even with settings that look like they should be limited to 13.

Well that's somewhat confusing then, because in game the term "typical" is only used for the Starting Rotation Size.

I have never seen an AI team sway from the settings. If I make my settings as 5 man rotation, 7 relievers and 13 position players, the AI has always stuck to that. I check teams randomly to see and have not seen it do any different.

I have on occasion left the setting to 5, 7, and 12; thus leaving the AI a free choice to fill the final spot. Some will carry an extra pitcher, some a hitter. I've even gone so far as to check manager strategies to see if the choice makes sense. Mostly it does, I notice teams that have a manager with a quick hook tend to carry an extra pitcher, while those who are lenient tend to carry an extra bat.

However, as I stated, when I don't give the AI a free choice, it sticks to the settings I have applied. If I set the 3 spots to total 25, the AI follows my setting.

I'm not disputing what you said, just going by my experiences with this. It's something I tend to keep an eye on fairly regularly in my leagues.

[Bluenoser]

WB LGO - good to see you again.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Well that's somewhat confusing then, because in game the term "typical" is only used for the Starting Rotation Size.

I have never seen an AI team sway from the settings. If I make my settings as 5 man rotation, 7 relievers and 13 position players, the AI has always stuck to that. I check teams randomly to see and have not seen it do any different.

I have on occasion left the setting to 5, 7, and 12; thus leaving the AI a free choice to fill the final spot. Some will carry an extra pitcher, some a hitter. I've even gone so far as to check manager strategies to see if the choice makes sense. Mostly it does, I notice teams that have a manager with a quick hook tend to carry an extra pitcher, while those who are lenient tend to carry an extra bat.

However, as I stated, when I don't give the AI a free choice, it sticks to the settings I have applied. If I set the 3 spots to total 25, the AI follows my setting.

I'm not disputing what you said, just going by my experiences with this. It's something I tend to keep an eye on fairly regularly in my leagues.

Yeah, when I tested it I honestly thought I wouldn't be able to find any instances of pitchers past the limit, but I figured I should check just to be sure as I didn't recall any talk here about it. And to my surprise I found one right off the bat on opening day, then another 2 months later, and more 2 months after that. I didn't do anything special to the league, I started a completely fresh 2023 league with the latest at the time build. I'd PM you the link to my report with the attachments, but IIRC you dropped out of beta awhile back. If you have more time now, you should ask back.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by kq76

Yeah, when I tested it I honestly thought I wouldn't be able to find any instances of pitchers past the limit, but I figured I should check just to be sure as I didn't recall any talk here about it. And to my surprise I found one right off the bat on opening day, then another 2 months later, and more 2 months after that. I didn't do anything special to the league, I started a completely fresh 2023 league with the latest at the time build. I'd PM you the link to my report with the attachments, but IIRC you dropped out of beta awhile back. If you have more time now, you should ask back.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with real vs fictional? I wouldn't think so, but have to wonder. My league is pretty much entirely fictional. I took the real MLB, expanded to 36 teams and use all fictional players. In fact I just rebuilt and restarted the league this year. Had been using same model since 18.

Between real/fictional shouldn't matter though now that I think about it. Baseball is baseball, and the game is played with the same engine regardless which way one plays.

I'm going to watch it more closely for a few seasons to see if I notice anything odd.

Was considering Beta again, haven't been since 18. Will give it some more thought. Tks.

[Bluenoser]

2 things I neglected to mention that may have a bearing:

No DH in either league

1985 for Stats (continuously - not advancing) This would definitely have an effect on how the AI sets up its bullpen given the difference in pitcher usage over time.

[Rain King]

I think the AI may go past 13 if the 3 settings do not add up to the current roster total. So, this can happen in the standard game during a period when rosters have been expanded.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Rain King

I think the AI may go past 13 if the 3 settings do not add up to the current roster total. So, this can happen in the standard game during a period when rosters have been expanded.

Below is what they looked like on that 3rd date. If they were hard rules, I think we'd see 13 pitchers max on every team.

[Matt Arnold]

There are cases they can deviate from those settings, notably with 2-way players, but also if the team has utility players that cover every spot, they can sometimes opt for one less batter and use an extra pitcher, in the current setup. It's something we can certainly look at in the future how strict to be on this.