Pick-offs

[twins_34]

What's up with the pickoffs in this game? When I do a swing away and all of a sudden, I'm picked off. I didn't try to steal, but yet, either the pitcher throws to 1st and gets me out or the catcher throws to 1st. I could understand if I have a steal on but when I am doing a swing away it makes zero sense.

How do you prevent this? I think its a very cheap out that I have zero control over.

[SirSaab]

There’s literally nothing you can do. When the AI decides to pick you off, it’s a very high success rate (in my experience). Conversely, you will never succeed a pickoff attempt.

[DirkGildun]

I am occasionally successful with attempted pickoffs (maybe 5 or 6 times in an 84-game schedule).


But the number of times one of my players gets picked off when there's no steal attempt on and the player has low steal and baserunning ratings is high enough to be extremely frustrating.


BTW, I play in one-pitch mode.

[BirdWatcher]

Well, to begin with, I'm pretty sure the game does not try to capture every event when a pitcher throws over to first base (that would be annoying, after all), so either a pickoff attempt is successful or it results in an error, sending the runner to second base. (This, at the very least, is how I believe it works based upon my own experience. And not true with catchers throwing to first, which is a more rare event and often results in the runner getting back safely. I'm also not speaking to all of the times where you as a human manager call for a pickoff.)

And my other thought is, sample size, sample size, sample size. I've been playing out all the games for my team in my fictional league (see below in signature) and I don't sense anything that seems to be out of line with what you would expect in real life. Doesn't mean I'm right. But this smacks of perceptions based upon small sample sizes and the very human reality that we over-emphasize events that punish our team, less frequent outcomes that hurt us, over events that go in our favor.

[SirSaab]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

And my other thought is, sample size...

No! FEELINGS!

And your point about all the “unsuccessful” pickoffs happening “off camera actually makes more sense than I’d prefer to admit

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by SirSaab

No! FEELINGS!

And your point about all the “unsuccessful” pickoffs happening “off camera actually makes more sense than I’d prefer to admit

This is the sort of thing for which data can be gathered if people really feel there is an issue that needs to be resolved.

But yes, first we need to make sure we are understanding how these are visually represented in the game. I am not assuming that I am correct, but merely mean to suggest that any data we gather about how successful pickoff attempts made by the AI are compared to those that a human manager calls for is meaningless if the visual representation isn't the same for these two events. However, it is certainly possible to identify how many successful pickoffs are made by your (human managed) team and how many are successfully accomplished against your team by AI teams. And it is very possible to compare those numbers to real life numbers. Understanding, of course, that your statistical league settings are going to play a big role in this and there are many little things, in this very expansive game, that could be off leading to odd results.

I will suggest also that if there was a big bug in this area of the game it would be the sort of thing that a great number of gamers would have already pointed it out long ago. Having said that, there is often an ongoing discussion here about things like passed balls, wild pitches, etc. which is very similar to this discussion. And though pretty much any data evidence that has been gathered suggests that it is a problem that is more of player perception than an actual game engine issue, it is a perception that seems to have at least nine lives.

[CBeisbol]

Recently had this in my world series
Rickey (Henderson) being on my team

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Rickey leads off with a 5 pitch walk
Rickey goes on a 1-2 pitch, Piazza swings and drives a ball to right. But Whitten makes the play on the warning track.
Valentin flies out to center
With Cory Snyder up, More throws over to first 5 straight times, then pitches out. On a 1-1 pitch Rickey steals.

I've also not got the feeling that this disproportionately effects my team.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Recently had this in my world series
Rickey (Henderson) being on my team


I've also not got the feeling that this disproportionately effects my team.

So just to make sure I am understanding, is this playing in pitch-by-pitch mode? And in this mode do you actually see the opposing pitcher make all of these throws over to first?
I have to admit I have always played in one-pitch mode so I wasn't aware that this was true, if that is what you are saying. Though I'm fairly confident that in one-pitch mode all I see in terms of pickoff attempts by the opposing pitcher are those that are successful or lead to errors.

[fuzzy_patters]

If you play in pitch-by-pitch mode, the opposing pitcher will repeatedly throw to first, and most of them will be unsuccessful.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

So just to make sure I am understanding, is this playing in pitch-by-pitch mode? And in this mode do you actually see the opposing pitcher make all of these throws over to first?
I have to admit I have always played in one-pitch mode so I wasn't aware that this was true, if that is what you are saying. Though I'm fairly confident that in one-pitch mode all I see in terms of pickoff attempts by the opposing pitcher are those that are successful or lead to errors.

When I play out games, I usually play in one pitch mode
Sometimes switching to pitch-by-pitch mode when I'm going to use some extra strategy, trying to steal for example.
So, yes, this was pitch-by-pitch mode, and I sat through all 5 throws to first.

I know I have seen unsuccessful throws to first base by the catcher. I'm pretty sure some of those were in one-pitch mode.

I'm about to start a spring training, and I play out all my games, so, I'll try to remember to keep an eye out for unsuccessful pickoffs.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by fuzzy_patters

If you play in pitch-by-pitch mode, the opposing pitcher will repeatedly throw to first, and most of them will be unsuccessful.

This seems realistic

And gives support to the idea that one-pitch mode leaves these out. As it probably should.



Related very tangentially, why are there some random foul balls in one-pitch mode?

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

When I play out games, I usually play in one pitch mode
Sometimes switching to pitch-by-pitch mode when I'm going to use some extra strategy, trying to steal for example.
So, yes, this was pitch-by-pitch mode, and I sat through all 5 throws to first.

I know I have seen unsuccessful throws to first base by the catcher. I'm pretty sure some of those were in one-pitch mode.

I'm about to start a spring training, and I play out all my games, so, I'll try to remember to keep an eye out for unsuccessful pickoffs.

Yes, I agree, as I mentioned previously, that you will see unsuccessful pickoff attempts made by catchers in one-pitch mode. I have certainly seem some quite recently.
I am racking my brain to think of whether I have seen unsuccessful (but not leading to an error) pickoff attempts by opposing pitchers in one-pitch mode. I can't be sure, but I'm fairly confident that the answer is no.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

This seems realistic

And gives support to the idea that one-pitch mode leaves these out. As it probably should.



Related very tangentially, why are there some random foul balls in one-pitch mode?

I have wondered that about the foul balls as well. I've always just assumed they are meant to add a bit of flavor.
I do think it might be interesting if in one-pitch mode some of the failed pickoff attempts (non-error type) were visualized- perhaps those that were closest to being successful, if that was something that could be identified by the game engine. I have no idea if that is something that could be done or done easily. (Assuming, again, that I am correct about them not being visually represented at this time.)

[Bobfather]

I notice a lot of pick off throws when I take a pitch and have a base stealer on first.
I would like to see an option on lead size, normal, secondary, none.

[SirSaab]

Originally Posted by Bobfather

I notice a lot of pick off throws when I take a pitch and have a base stealer on first.
I would like to see an option on lead size, normal, secondary, none.

Maybe add to that, “keep one foot on first, fatty-fatty-slow-slow.” :P