Talent Developments for same teams every year!!! - Page 2

Markus Heinsohn · 09-04-2003, 03:41 AM

Oops, I forgot to mention something: When you have great coaches, the chance of talent increases compared to talent bumps are much higher... so maybe those three teams have all excellent coaches?

Qrashman · 09-04-2003, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
Oops, I forgot to mention something: When you have great coaches, the chance of talent increases compared to talent bumps are much higher... so maybe those three teams have all excellent coaches?

Quote:

We have no coaches or scouts.

Markus Heinsohn · 09-04-2003, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Qrashman

OOPS... ok...

dougk62 · 09-04-2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
Oops, I forgot to mention something: When you have great coaches, the chance of talent increases compared to talent bumps are much higher... so maybe those three teams have all excellent coaches?

I must be missing something here. What's the difference between a "talent increase" and a "talent bump"? I always thought if the talent went from good to brilliant that was a bump, but I'd also call it an increase.

Qrashman · 09-04-2003, 07:51 PM

hahaha yeah i always get confused too. A bump is a downgrade. I didnt make up the lingo.

Qrashman · 10-22-2003, 02:22 AM

guys this is getting ridiculous. The same teams keep getting huge upgrades, especially Oakland and LA. The same teams every year get huge downgrades too. Texas's first round pick has gone to crap 5 of the last 6 years. Toronto constantly gets their good rookies crapped out.

Check out Oakland's developments in one day!

Quote:

Thursday 2/3/2010 :

Jay Gibbon's talent in hitting homers drops...
Julius Perez increases his talent in avoiding homers!
Julius Perez increases his talent in avoiding walks!
Julius Perez increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Alvin Perez increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Alvin Perez increases his talent in hitting for average!
Alvin Perez increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Roger Cowan increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Roger Cowan increases his talent in hitting for average!
Roger Cowan increases his talent in hitting homers!
Sherwin Trujillo increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Domingo Colon increases his talent in avoiding walks!
Christopher Brooks increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Christopher Brooks increases his talent in avoiding hits!
Christopher Brooks increases his talent in avoiding homers!
Christopher Brooks increases his talent in avoiding walks!
Christopher Brooks increases his talent in getting strikeouts!

Qrashman · 10-22-2003, 02:25 AM

Here's more from Oakland:

Quote:

Monday 4/19/2010 :

Raymond Sanchez increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Raymond Sanchez increases his talent in avoiding hits!
Raymond Sanchez increases his talent in avoiding homers!
Pablo Adrover is getting faster, his speed increases to C ...
Manuel Monarrez's talent in getting strikeouts drops...
Manuel Monarrez's talent in avoiding hits drops...
Benjamin Ferguson increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Benjamin Ferguson increases his talent in hitting for average!

Quote:

Monday 4/26/2010 :

Carl Jackson increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Carl Jackson increases his talent in hitting for average!
Carl Jackson increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Freddy Galdamez increases his talent in hitting homers!

Keep in mind this is the same team that I've been saying has had good fortune for a while. It's not just a one season thing. Its the same teams, every year, same pattern. Its really ruining the league.

Qrashman · 10-22-2003, 02:29 AM

Oakland in 2009 (3 consecutive sims)

Quote:

Monday 8/8/2009 :

Charles Batey's talent in taking walks drops...
Jose Palacios increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Jose Palacios increases his talent in avoiding hits!
Jose Palacios increases his talent in avoiding homers!
Jose Palacios increases his talent in avoiding walks!
Jose Palacios increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Francesco Marrufo has lost some momentum, his range at SS drops to C ...
Gaby Maldonado increases his talent in avoiding homers!
Gaby Maldonado increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Roberto Malave increases his talent in avoiding walks!
Roberto Malave increases his talent in getting strikeouts!

Monday 8/15/2009 :

Fred Brandy increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Fred Brandy increases his talent in avoiding hits!
Fred Brandy increases his talent in avoiding homers!
Fred Brandy increases his talent in avoiding walks!
Gonzalo Alcantara has learned reading pitchers better, his stealing ability raises to A ...

Monday 8/22/2009 :

Sherwin Trujillo increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Sherwin Trujillo increases his talent in hitting for average!
Sherwin Trujillo increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!

then...

Quote:

Monday 9/19/2009 :

Frank Catalanotto's talent in avoiding strikeouts drops...
Frank Catalanotto's talent in hitting for average drops...
Mike Quade increases his talent in taking walks!
Jason Giambi's talent in avoiding strikeouts drops...
Jason Giambi's talent in hitting for average drops...
Jake Douglas increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Jake Douglas increases his talent in avoiding hits!
Jake Douglas increases his talent in avoiding walks!
Jake Douglas increases his talent in getting strikeouts!
Christopher Brooks's talent in avoiding doubles drops...

Ed: (Catalanotto and Giambi are both 38)

Monday 9/26/2009 :

Leonardo Hernandez increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Leonardo Hernandez increases his talent in hitting for average!
Leonardo Hernandez increases his talent in avoiding strikeouts!
Fred Towell's talent in taking walks drops...
Bruce Hixon's talent in hitting for average drops...

Oakland does get occassional drops (and some in bunches) but his upgrades outnumber his drops by 6:1 and when he gets upgrades they are 4 or 5 at a time. It's disgusting. There is no doubt that something is seriously wrong.

kingnebwsu · 10-22-2003, 02:50 AM

Something is seriously broken. Any of those teams run by the commish?

Qrashman · 10-22-2003, 03:17 AM

Thats the same team, Oakland!!! I am the commish of this league and that isn't my team.

SpaceNinja · 10-22-2003, 04:55 AM

Actually, that doesn't look that bad. I've seen teams get luckier over a stretch of time... heck, I've been on teams in scout-free leagues that have had better seasons talent-wise. Keep in mind that it's just that: luck.

I trust Markus's programming skill, despite what the 5.13 patch has done to the leagues I'm in

Markus Heinsohn · 10-22-2003, 06:33 AM

Again, there is no team factor in the development algorythms other than the coaches. Talent increases/bumps occur when a player is close to the nearest talent rating with his actual ratings. So, maybe Oakland has more players close to the next higher level, and that's why the increases occur. If that is not the case, I suggest simming the scenario 100 times... you will notice that things will even out.

jameyhammock · 10-22-2003, 07:35 AM

I remember there being some discussion and/or questions last year about what happens when a league that has coaches turned on decides to turn coaches off.

I'm not sure if that's the case here, but I definitely remember some tests that people were running that indicated that maybe the game was continuning to use the coaches that the teams had had even though coaches were turned off. The results seemed to indicate that teams that had good coaches before the change fared significantly better than those who had previously had lesser coaches. It seemed like the variation in the results was a bit more than could be explained by just random variation.

I never heard anything definitive about this, but it's something I've wondered about in the back of my mind since that discussion took place...

Later,
jamey

Steve Kuffrey · 10-22-2003, 08:14 AM

Markus said about a week or two back and several times when the question was asked last year that when they are off, they are OFF.

Markus Heinsohn · 10-22-2003, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey
Markus said about a week or two back and several times when the question was asked last year that when they are off, they are OFF.

Exactly

Matteo · 10-22-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
Again, there is no team factor in the development algorythms other than the coaches. Talent increases/bumps occur when a player is close to the nearest talent rating with his actual ratings. So, maybe Oakland has more players close to the next higher level, and that's why the increases occur. If that is not the case, I suggest simming the scenario 100 times... you will notice that things will even out.

This is a rather interesting statement

Qrashman · 10-22-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceNinja
Actually, that doesn't look that bad. I've seen teams get luckier over a stretch of time... heck, I've been on teams in scout-free leagues that have had better seasons talent-wise. Keep in mind that it's just that: luck.

I trust Markus's programming skill, despite what the 5.13 patch has done to the leagues I'm in

The owners in my league are in plenty of other leagues collectively and have never seen anything remotely like this. My league originated in OOTP3. Not sure if that would effect anything.

Keep in mind that this is not just a 1 season thing. Its been ever since we went to OOTP4 about 6 seasons ago. Oakland, Cleveland and LA (Montreal to a lesser degree) get more increases than all other teams combined and multiplied by 2.

PineTar · 10-22-2003, 04:29 PM

Qrash:

There are still plenty of folks in the FOBL (also started using OOTP3) who think that dev is not entirely random. We are also a no coach/no scout league.

Steve/Markus:

Is there any issue w/ OOTP3 leagues that might be causing residual coaches in subsequent versions of the game?

Also, what would turning coaches/scouts back on and editing them all to 'average' then turning them off do? Would anything be harmed in your estimation?

spleen1015 · 10-22-2003, 04:33 PM

Maybe Qrash can send Markus his league files and Markus can open it up and see if there are coaches assigned to teams even though it appears they aren't.

Deft · 10-22-2003, 05:10 PM

Markus, if a player is in the middle or lower end of his talent ranking can he get an "invisible" increase midseason to higher hidden value in his same rank (ex. "Good") without informing the player development report?

09-04-2003, 07:51 PM	#25
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	hahaha yeah i always get confused too. A bump is a downgrade. I didnt make up the lingo. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

10-22-2003, 03:17 AM	#30
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	Thats the same team, Oakland!!! I am the commish of this league and that isn't my team. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

10-22-2003, 08:14 AM	#34
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	Markus said about a week or two back and several times when the question was asked last year that when they are off, they are OFF. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

10-22-2003, 04:29 PM	#38
PineTar Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 154	Qrash: There are still plenty of folks in the FOBL (also started using OOTP3) who think that dev is not entirely random. We are also a no coach/no scout league. Steve/Markus: Is there any issue w/ OOTP3 leagues that might be causing residual coaches in subsequent versions of the game? Also, what would turning coaches/scouts back on and editing them all to 'average' then turning them off do? Would anything be harmed in your estimation? __________________

10-22-2003, 05:10 PM	#40
Deft All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,111	Markus, if a player is in the middle or lower end of his talent ranking can he get an "invisible" increase midseason to higher hidden value in his same rank (ex. "Good") without informing the player development report? __________________ ATHL Louisville Jockeys (2001-present) 2002, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020 World Champions Uniform Template 1.2

09-04-2003, 03:41 AM	#21
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Oops, I forgot to mention something: When you have great coaches, the chance of talent increases compared to talent bumps are much higher... so maybe those three teams have all excellent coaches?

10-22-2003, 02:50 AM	#29
kingnebwsu Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 127	Something is seriously broken. Any of those teams run by the commish?

10-22-2003, 04:55 AM	#31
SpaceNinja Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 92	Actually, that doesn't look that bad. I've seen teams get luckier over a stretch of time... heck, I've been on teams in scout-free leagues that have had better seasons talent-wise. Keep in mind that it's just that: luck. I trust Markus's programming skill, despite what the 5.13 patch has done to the leagues I'm in

10-22-2003, 06:33 AM	#32
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Again, there is no team factor in the development algorythms other than the coaches. Talent increases/bumps occur when a player is close to the nearest talent rating with his actual ratings. So, maybe Oakland has more players close to the next higher level, and that's why the increases occur. If that is not the case, I suggest simming the scenario 100 times... you will notice that things will even out.

10-22-2003, 07:35 AM	#33
jameyhammock Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 223	I remember there being some discussion and/or questions last year about what happens when a league that has coaches turned on decides to turn coaches off. I'm not sure if that's the case here, but I definitely remember some tests that people were running that indicated that maybe the game was continuning to use the coaches that the teams had had even though coaches were turned off. The results seemed to indicate that teams that had good coaches before the change fared significantly better than those who had previously had lesser coaches. It seemed like the variation in the results was a bit more than could be explained by just random variation. I never heard anything definitive about this, but it's something I've wondered about in the back of my mind since that discussion took place... Later, jamey

10-22-2003, 04:33 PM	#39
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,000	Maybe Qrash can send Markus his league files and Markus can open it up and see if there are coaches assigned to teams even though it appears they aren't.