And the MLB 2020 season negotiations begin

[cephasjames]

The ultimatum was time based only. At some point, in order to actually have time to play any games in a season, a deadline needed to be set so they could actually play. Perpetual negotiations with no season at stake is fine. Or if they only played in domes and weather wasn't a factor, it would be fine. But there is a finite amount of time for a season to be played. In order to play within that finite amount of time, a deadline needs to he made. Also, there is a potential threat of COVID causing things to shut down later in the season, should the season stretch into the late fall and early winter months. The window for playing is potentially short.

[dkgo]

Yes that is true. So the players said "set a schedule and tell us when to show up." And now MLB is saying they still might not play. Proof that the owners never wanted a season in the first place even if you somehow bought into their bull**** bad faith offers along the way.

[mitchkenn]

in the long run - doesn't matter - owners ... players ... it's the fan who really loses here and now. The owners will find a way to make money, as they did before baseball. the players may need to learn a few new skills in the long run. but the fans will have to find something else to engage in now and in the future. However nothing will replace baseball's history. myself, i'm ready to delve back into spending hours upon hours digitally cleaning my vinyl records and listening to some old 60's garage rock i'd nearly forgotten about. when the powers to be decide we need baseball again, i'll decide if i'm with them. after all, we still have OOTP and it doesn't stop because of disagreements between owners and players.... it doesn't, does it? Oh i hope not.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Yes that is true. So the players said "set a schedule and tell us when to show up." And now MLB is saying they still might not play. Proof that the owners never wanted a season in the first place even if you somehow bought into their bull**** bad faith offers along the way.

Nah. Hinting that maybe they don't want a season now? Sure. Its conjecture that they never wanted a season in the first place.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

in the long run - doesn't matter - owners ... players ... it's the fan who really loses here and now. The owners will find a way to make money, as they did before baseball. the players may need to learn a few new skills in the long run. but the fans will have to find something else to engage in now and in the future. However nothing will replace baseball's history. myself, i'm ready to delve back into spending hours upon hours digitally cleaning my vinyl records and listening to some old 60's garage rock i'd nearly forgotten about. when the powers to be decide we need baseball again, i'll decide if i'm with them. after all, we still have OOTP and it doesn't stop because of disagreements between owners and players.... it doesn't, does it? Oh i hope not.

The bold is really what it comes down to. All of the people who have the ability to make a season happen have thus far failed at making it happen. When they finally do make it happen, how many fans are going to come back to the game, and how many are simply going to stay away because of this dispute? Neither side is currently adding fans to the game by how they are presenting themselves.

[Hrycaj]

Throughout this process I have heard the owners refuse to “open the books” but I do not know what that means? I mean, I get the implication that they don’t want to share how much they actually are profiting but my real question is how is that legal? Doesn’t that fall under FOIA? I would be curious if someone that knowns about these things could chime in.

As for the fan stuff. They will be back. I wasn’t born in 1972 but they came back. I was not old enough to remember 1981 but they came back. I vividly remember 1994 and they came back. Nothing will be different this time. Just like city tax payers will continue to fund stadiums. The fans continually take it on the chin from owners and come back begging for more.

[dkgo]

Well baseball teams aren't controlled by the government so their documents aren't freely available for the public...

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Well baseball teams aren't controlled by the government so their documents aren't freely available for the public...

It doesn't have anything to do with being "controlled by the government", whatever that means. Members of the baseball cartel are mostly private companies or individuals, so there is nothing legally requiring their disclosure of actual/audited financial info beyond their occasional "boo hoo we lose money every year" complaints.



The Barves are owned by Liberty Media, a publicly-traded company, so you can find their financials. That should be the same answer for the Jays too but I don't know how Canadian financial disclosures work.

[dkgo]

The freedom of information act is literally about documents controlled by government agencies, so that has everything to do with why baseball teams financials don't fall under it.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by dkgo

The freedom of information act is literally about documents controlled by government agencies, so that has everything to do with why baseball teams financials don't fall under it.

Sorry, I misread. Two teams are publicly-held and are subject to securities disclosure statutes.

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

vAs for the fan stuff. They will be back. I wasn’t born in 1972 but they came back. I was not old enough to remember 1981 but they came back. I vividly remember 1994 and they came back. Nothing will be different this time. Just like city tax payers will continue to fund stadiums. The fans continually take it on the chin from owners and come back begging for more.

everyone here had listed lots of very valid points, but baseball has been losing fans for the past few years, not adding them. And after '94 it took the McGwire-Sosa home run chase to get fans excited about baseball again. Baseball is having a hard time getting, little alone keeping younger fans. The older (myself included) fans may not feel like it's worth their time this time. After all, enough has gone down through the years that i find i follow one team (the one my grandfather introduced to me in 1960 - SF Giants) but mostly i watch certain players now. Time will tell, but i am not so certain this time will be a re-run of history with forgiving and forgetting fans. We shall see. i just wish someone had the guts to finally stand up and say - it's on, or it's done for this year ....

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

everyone here had listed lots of very valid points, but baseball has been losing fans for the past few years, not adding them. And after '94 it took the McGwire-Sosa home run chase to get fans excited about baseball again. Baseball is having a hard time getting, little alone keeping younger fans. The older (myself included) fans may not feel like it's worth their time this time. After all, enough has gone down through the years that i find i follow one team (the one my grandfather introduced to me in 1960 - SF Giants) but mostly i watch certain players now. Time will tell, but i am not so certain this time will be a re-run of history with forgiving and forgetting fans. We shall see. i just wish someone had the guts to finally stand up and say - it's on, or it's done for this year ....

I hear that argument about baseball losing younger fans a lot. For a while I was inclined to believe it but lately I find myself wondering how true it really is? It seems to me if baseball is on such shaky ground they wouldn't be pulling in monster TV deals. I'm not saying you are wrong mitchkenn, just more food for thought maybe.

[TheMaus2]

Live sports is the only given money maker in TV rn, and will probably continue to hold super valuable for the near future. I'd bet that the NFL and NBA deals will be even more lucrative when their deals are up, though. Not sure how reliable TV ratings are in this age but just in terms of pure social media interaction (something young people use) the MLB shrivels compared to the other two.

[Arobbins]

Apparently the average age of an MLB fan is 57.
https://twitter.com/WashedReese/stat...642743297?s=20

I tend to agree the MLB has been losing fans, though they were making strides in making footage and games more widely available.

[cephasjames]

Six MLB owners don't want to play 2020 season

According to SNY's Andy Martino, there are at least six owners who don't want a 2020 campaign. The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich, for their part, quoted a player agent who said "there are definitely more than eight owners who don't want to play."

If there are six or seven owners who are taking an anti-season approach, that's one thing; if there are eight or more, then the dynamic changes. Eight hardliners could, in theory, sink the ship. That's because Manfred needs clearance from 75 percent of the league's owners in order to impose a schedule.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Arobbins

Apparently the average age of an MLB fan is 57.
https://twitter.com/WashedReese/stat...642743297?s=20

I tend to agree the MLB has been losing fans, though they were making strides in making footage and games more widely available.

Were they though? Where I live, I'm in the blackout zone for Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and both Chicagos (maybe even St. Louis) on MLB.tv, the official means of bringing baseball to the masses. The official means for watching MLB baseball blacks out "home team" viewing and directs us to jump through hoops in order to see games. "Widely available," imo, would be to be able to watch even your home team through the official MLB baseball watching app.

EDIT: According to this 2017 Market Watch article, 57 is the average age of TV watching fans. Which is logical since most younger fans probably don't watch MLB games on TV.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

The ultimatum was time based only. At some point, in order to actually have time to play any games in a season, a deadline needed to be set so they could actually play. Perpetual negotiations with no season at stake is fine. Or if they only played in domes and weather wasn't a factor, it would be fine. But there is a finite amount of time for a season to be played. In order to play within that finite amount of time, a deadline needs to he made. Also, there is a potential threat of COVID causing things to shut down later in the season, should the season stretch into the late fall and early winter months. The window for playing is potentially short.

Dr. Anthony Fauci says MLB should try to play 'in the core summer months' and avoid October

[Reed]

Well it looks like the owners are now offering a 60 day schedule full prorated, expanded playoffs, season start July 19th.
Isn't that pretty much what the players want??

[neugey]

Bet someone had a come to Jesus talk to Manfred

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by neugey

Bet someone had a come to Jesus talk to Manfred

My guess is it was less of a come to Jesus talk for Manfred and more of one for the owners of the A’s, Marlins, and whoever else was whining about playing the season at all. At the end of the day the commissioner is nothing more than the mouthpiece of the owners.