President Of Baseball Operations

[itsmb8]

Sorry for the long post, replying to a couple lengthy comments.

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I can actually say I think 21 has the biggest core ootp base game improvements in like 3 versions. There are just so many little UI and quality of life updates. I couldn't even launch an older version now. Yes the rest of the game still basically plays 80% like the previous 5 versions but it's just so much better to work in now. So I would still recommend the upgrade to longtime players.

I understand OOTP Baseball has a split audience. A majority loves just plain simming of baseball and another majority wants all that goes into running a baseball organization while being entertained.

Granted OOTP has to step toe over/around this line. But I for 1 think they have the baseball sim down cold. It can only get so much better every year.

I would really want them to come out and say "Hey for OOTP 22 we are focusing one this 1 game mechanic that we think will bring fun/enjoyment." And it would need to be completely fleshed out. 100% idea completed.

To me the biggest thing is the interactions between owner/gm to the fanbase. It is pretty non existent. Fan Loyalty, Market Size, Fan Interest if they are functional it sure doesn't bring any entertainment to the game.

And teams do turn these areas around. Look at the Phillies and Nationals. Phillies basically post 2000 and Nationals post 2010. Phillies have never had a bigger fan base in 200 years then it has had post 2000. It got them a new stadium, bigger budget, more tv deals, higher prices free agents, media coverage etc.

The Nationals went from bottom of the East to basically ever year pennant contenders. Same thing increases fans, increase budget everything.

Has their market size increased? Certainly even if their cities population hasnt increased more of the population are actually fans. And with fantasy sports they get more fans across the nation.

I just don't know how good the current Interest, Loyalty and Market Size are or what it brings to the table. It doesn't feel like the GM can influence them at all. There are no game mechanics built around it.

There is just this huge breakdown between us the human gm and our virtual fan base. There is no connection, no game mechanics. It makes the world feel flat and lifeless.

Players can get tagged as fan favorites? How? Why? There is no mechanics built around it.

Im only replying to the bold because i pretty much agree with the rest. But I think that GMs rarely ever have a big impact on things that large. I mean, those things take a ton of time to change IRL so i feel like its a combined effort from all the players, staff, and the handful of GMs made possible by the owner. The Phillies have had 4 GMs since 2000. The Nationals have kept Mike Rizzo since 2010 but they have never needed to remove him. Fan Interest is just winning with likeable players, or just winning. Fan Loyalty is listening to fans, promotional events, things like that (which should definitely be addressed), and Market Size is just that.

Take the Brewers, before 2005-08ish, the Brewers have had high loyalty but low interest. Why? Wisconsin loves baseball but the team wasnt winning. After Attanasio bought the team and started funding more, Melvin could do more and the team started winning, fan interest jumped. Now, fan interest is at an all time high and loyalty is still through the roof, because the team is winning a lot and usually exceeding expectations. Market Size is still low though, because Milwaukee just isnt that big.

Originally Posted by ALB123

Great points. It drives me nuts how many little things supposedly have an effect on our team's performance or player morale or effort, etc. but no one knows what moves those meters and how much do they affect player or team performance? A very simple example is how someone on my team gets assigned Team Captain, but I, the GM and Manager have zero input on who gets the Captain's badge. I would rather that we all have to assign team Captain(s) on our own and if our pick doesn't get respected or form relationships, there will be consequences. Otherwise, why even have it? There should be a purpose behind everything.

I somewhat agree with this. If youre playing as a manager, you should be able to pick the captain, but i dont think the GM has any control over this. One thing i wish i for us to be able to accept manager-only job offers if we wanted, because as of right now we always assume the GM position no matter what.

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I wouldn’t force anything on the user.

The way I would implement it:

Owner set overall budget
Owner hires POBO

POBO set goals
POBO set “other” expenses (stadium, concession, marketing, etc)

GM only mode retains current controls

Manager only mode retain current controls

Gm & Manager mode retain current controls.

As GM or GM & Manager...

* You can hire an Assistant GM
* You can delegate AGM to control MiLB transactions
* You can delegate all budget settings, renegotiations, ARB, ticket pricing and staff hiring to POBO

Cool benefits to having an AGM is that he would give opinions on potential trades and signings.

“This is a terrible trade for us”

“This signing would put us over budget in 2022”

Etc...

POBO will give you emails about promotional days.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But thats the best thing about OOTP, nothing is ever forced on the user

[dward1]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I can actually say I think 21 has the biggest core ootp base game improvements in like 3 versions. There are just so many little UI and quality of life updates. I couldn't even launch an older version now. Yes the rest of the game still basically plays 80% like the previous 5 versions but it's just so much better to work in now. So I would still recommend the upgrade to longtime players.

I understand OOTP Baseball has a split audience. A majority loves just plain simming of baseball and another majority wants all that goes into running a baseball organization while being entertained.

Granted OOTP has to step toe over/around this line. But I for 1 think they have the baseball sim down cold. It can only get so much better every year.

I would really want them to come out and say "Hey for OOTP 22 we are focusing one this 1 game mechanic that we think will bring fun/enjoyment." And it would need to be completely fleshed out. 100% idea completed.

To me the biggest thing is the interactions between owner/gm to the fanbase. It is pretty non existent. Fan Loyalty, Market Size, Fan Interest if they are functional it sure doesn't bring any entertainment to the game.

And teams do turn these areas around. Look at the Phillies and Nationals. Phillies basically post 2000 and Nationals post 2010. Phillies have never had a bigger fan base in 200 years then it has had post 2000. It got them a new stadium, bigger budget, more tv deals, higher prices free agents, media coverage etc.

The Nationals went from bottom of the East to basically ever year pennant contenders. Same thing increases fans, increase budget everything.

Has their market size increased? Certainly even if their cities population hasnt increased more of the population are actually fans. And with fantasy sports they get more fans across the nation.

I just don't know how good the current Interest, Loyalty and Market Size are or what it brings to the table. It doesn't feel like the GM can influence them at all. There are no game mechanics built around it.

There is just this huge breakdown between us the human gm and our virtual fan base. There is no connection, no game mechanics. It makes the world feel flat and lifeless.

Players can get tagged as fan favorites? How? Why? There is no mechanics built around it.

what UI and quality of life updates are you talking about?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

There is a thread floating around here of peoples top 5. I am not the end all authority, but I have played a LOT of sports management sims.

IMO Football Manager is the clear #1. What I look for when playing one of these types of games is, does it make me feel like I am actually running a professional sports team?
FM does that the best.

OOTP comes #2
The gap between #1 and #2 is pretty immense.
Some other good sports management games are Eastside Hockey Manager, Motorsport Manager, Starters Orders and Pro Cycling Manager
All of those do a good job of making me feel like I am managing whatever sport they are trying to depict.

They all have their flaws (some more than others) but they are all fun and playable.

And it often sounds like I am bashing OOTP but I am not.
I literally think it is the second best game in it's genre.
I am just afraid that on this forum Markus and the others have heard almost nothing but praise.
Sure you will get some threads of those with a narrow set of bugs or crashes and they will take it way out of proportion and say they are never buying another version.
I don't think we need a forum of that either.

But I see way too little constructive criticism and letting the development team getting off with half baked and lazy ideas.
Scouting was implement way back in 2007 and left half finished and just this version got an update and it still has very mixed results.
The financial aspect of the game is still very underdeveloped.
Poll any GM in any sport what their biggest challenge is and I would be willing to bet that near 100% of them would say money or finances.
Yet in OOTP we still have a pretty simplistic financial model.

There is a lot about OOTP to love. A whole lot. I have been here since version 5. But I don't see the harm in pointing out flaws and challenging the development team to make a better product.
As long as it's done nicely and in a constructive manner.

As it is now, I feel like a person could skip every other version or even purchase the game every 3 versions and come back to it and if they were honest with themselves not feel like they have missed that much.

I have thought this for the last decade at least. I have also come to the conclusion that OOTP will likely never achieve that kind of detailed fun to the point where you actually feel as though you are sitting in the manager's chair.

That is what I have always wanted out of OOTP...but I have gotten to be realistic in my expectations. OOTPD just doesn't have the resources and likely never will. Even if Perfect Team is earning them more money, how many more staff members do you still think they will be able hire?

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I also co-sign 1000% that FM is the best sports sim and it's not even close. If they got serious about making a baseball manager, OOTP would be in trouble

Well, they actually did get serious about making a baseball game. Know what it was? OOTP The base of the game you play now was done under the SI umbrella. SEGA kicked OOTP to the curb when they bought FM. Karma is getting closer and closer to coming back and biting them in the butt.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Well, they actually did get serious about making a baseball game. Know what it was? OOTP The base of the game you play now was done under the SI umbrella. SEGA kicked OOTP to the curb when they bought FM. Karma is getting closer and closer to coming back and biting them in the butt.

True Sweed, but OOTP definitely could have used the extra resources since 2006. It's easy to dream on what OOTP might look like today had that not happened. We will never know though...and like I said above I highly doubt OOTP will ever achieve that kind of detail and interaction the way FM does. The things OOTP has is customization and the ability to import leagues from year to year. FM's strength is it has an incredible ability to make the player feel the are in the manager's chair via many different ways (scouting, team morale, media, staff, organizational goals, player and staff interaction..etc)

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I have thought this for the last decade at least. I have also come to the conclusion that OOTP will likely never achieve that kind of detailed fun to the point where you actually feel as though you are sitting in the manager's chair.

That is what I have always wanted out of OOTP...but I have gotten to be realistic in my expectations. OOTPD just doesn't have the resources and likely never will. Even if Perfect Team is earning them more money, how many more staff members do you still think they will be able hire?

I wont say never
I mean, they sell a lot of copies of the game. The game shows up on the Steam top 5 for a few days after release and then in the top 100 for about a month.
It then pops up again during various sales.
If you are showing up in the Steam top seller charts, then you are moving a lot of copies of your game!

And then there is PT. No one knows the exact numbers. But there have been hints dropped.
They quit offering a pre order on every store except their own web store.
I cannot remember clearly. But I think one of the devs mentioned that during the first month of PT which I think was November of 2018 they sold enough virtual currency that it equaled or exceeded sales of the actual game (which would of been the 19 version) to date.

So I think their income has increased by quit a bit. And they have branched off into other sports like Hockey (already on it's sixth version!) and the stop and start again football game.

If it was me and only my opinion. I would do another complete engine rewrite. We are pretty much on a super heavily modified version of the 2007 engine.
Some of the limitations many of us would like to see improved may be imposed by the engine.
But I am just guessing.

But I won't say never to OOTP greatly increasing in quality. I think they are in a much better financial situation now than before PT and I can only hope much of that is reinvested back into the game.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

True Sweed, but OOTP definitely could have used the extra resources since 2006. It's easy to dream on what OOTP might look like today had that not happened. We will never know though...and like I said above I highly doubt OOTP will ever achieve that kind of detail and interaction the way FM does. The things OOTP has is customization and the ability to import leagues from year to year. FM's strength is it has an incredible ability to make the player feel the are in the manager's chair via many different ways (scouting, team morale, media, staff, organizational goals, player and staff interaction..etc)

I would say OOTP has done amazing things since being dropped by the suits at SEGA. They and they alone are the very reason we can only wonder what would have happened. If we go back to those days the hope was OOTP, under SI\FM would make the jump and get MLB licensing and expand the game to become more FM like.

After being dismissed I don't think anyone here, SEGA suits foremost, would foresee OOTP ending up with that license or the MLBPA. This was no small accomplishment for such a small niche game. Most of that time it was just Markus coding the actual game and then Matt added in. Without teams, yes teams, of coders working on different modules one can't expect them to have that depth in the areas you mention. Maybe with PT money coming it it will come someday, who knows?

One other thing to keep in mind... FM tried and failed at doing an online game where OOTP, at least so far, has succeeded. Wonder what SEGA suits think about that? lol

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I have thought this for the last decade at least. I have also come to the conclusion that OOTP will likely never achieve that kind of detailed fun to the point where you actually feel as though you are sitting in the manager's chair.

That is what I have always wanted out of OOTP...but I have gotten to be realistic in my expectations. OOTPD just doesn't have the resources and likely never will. Even if Perfect Team is earning them more money, how many more staff members do you still think they will be able hire?

As someone who's never played a PC-based or physically card-based baseball sim, I do feel like I'm sitting in the manager's spot on the bench in the Yankees dugout. It's too bad that I have zero interaction with the few coaches the team hired. And, I do feel like I'm all alone in my private office poring over binders full of statistics and scouting reports. If I had 10 years of ootp experience would I feel differently? Maybe, but I hope the positives would still outweigh the negatives.

Hey...Playing Perfect Team costs money?! Or can people buy only a PT license separately from the OOTP license I have? Why didn't I know that? Is it a monthly fee?

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by ALB123

Hey...Playing Perfect Team costs money?! Or can people buy only a PT license separately from the OOTP license I have? Why didn't I know that? Is it a monthly fee?

You can have up to three Perfect Team accounts for 'free' when you buy a copy of the game.
You just need three unique e-mail addresses.

It is free to play in that you get starting packs to get going and in game milestones and achievements will get you points that you then buy more packs or players with.

The money to be made from OOTPDs side, is that you can purchase point bundles in game with real world currency.
Like any other free to play game this is pretty much to speed up progress.

But it is very possible to play and enjoy that mode for 'free' with nothing more spent then whatever you spend on the base game.

[PSUColonel]

I have never even opened up perfect team lol...I have zero understanding of it.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I have never even opened up perfect team lol...I have zero understanding of it.

I actually enjoyed PT XX more then the base game. I completed maybe 1 or 2 full seasons in ootp base game. It just felt like I was playing the same version from previous years. I bored quickly with it.

But PT really saved ootp xx for me. I enjoyed it a lot. It was a breathe of fresh air.

I get several dozen video games a year so if a game wants me to continually go back to it for hours and hours it really has to do something special. And ootp sometimes just feels so similar to it's previous iterations or even my previous universes I often get bored and have to shelve the game.