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Old 05-19-2019, 11:03 PM   #1
Erich Ingram
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Scoring Frustrations

Something that I keep seeing that is very frustrating. With runners on base that batter hits the ball in the gap and flies around to third with the ball being cut and thrown to third as well. He is safe with what I expect to be a triple only he is only credited with a double. I have no problem when the hitter isn't credited for every base when the ball is thrown home but if the ball is thrown to the base the hitter is going to and he is safe then credit him with the base.

Just cost my hitter the cycle. Very frustrating.
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Old 05-19-2019, 11:58 PM   #2
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But, is this a scoring issue or a 3D visualization issue?
What does the PBP say happened on the play?
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:31 AM   #3
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What post above said...3D animations don't always show what actually happens in the pbp. The results are determined before you can see anything happen in 3D
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:12 AM   #4
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Yeah, these are mostly a problem because the throw should go more to home, with the runner taking 3rd because of that. It's on my list to improve in the near future, but complicated to get everyone moving to the right spots on the field to look correct.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
Yeah, these are mostly a problem because the throw should go more to home, with the runner taking 3rd because of that. It's on my list to improve in the near future, but complicated to get everyone moving to the right spots on the field to look correct.
A further difficulty in that calculation and placement is whether the throw will be cutoff or not. Whatís the driving element there, Matt, the OF arm?
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:25 PM   #6
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Yeah, these are mostly a problem because the throw should go more to home, with the runner taking 3rd because of that. It's on my list to improve in the near future, but complicated to get everyone moving to the right spots on the field to look correct.
What Iím seeing since the last patch came out is an example a batter is up with a runner on 2nd base and thereís a base hit to right field. The outfielder throws the ball to an infielder as the cut off man as the runner who was on second base rounds third and heads home and itís obvious if the infielder who took the cut off throw throws home they have the base runner out by a mile but the infielder just holds the ball and watches the runner score. It has a weird look to it.
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
Yeah, these are mostly a problem because the throw should go more to home, with the runner taking 3rd because of that. It's on my list to improve in the near future, but complicated to get everyone moving to the right spots on the field to look correct.
Matt - Another thing to try and improve is when a ball is hit deep into the OF, typically the corner, and thrown back in to the SS or 2B - then they just stand there while runners go from not even at 3B yet to home. The timing is simply off. If the SS gets the ball from the LF and the runner is just getting to 3B, heís not going to score.

This is not a complaint as 3D is just great now, only pointing out something to work on at some point.
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:17 PM   #8
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Matt - Another thing to try and improve is when a ball is hit deep into the OF, typically the corner, and thrown back in to the SS or 2B - then they just stand there while runners go from not even at 3B yet to home. The timing is simply off. If the SS gets the ball from the LF and the runner is just getting to 3B, heís not going to score.

This is not a complaint as 3D is just great now, only pointing out something to work on at some point.
Yeah, that's always annoyed me too, and will be improved for the next patch too
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:35 PM   #9
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Yeah, that's always annoyed me too, and will be improved for the next patch too
Thanks!

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Old 05-20-2019, 05:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbl4868 View Post
What Iím seeing since the last patch came out is an example a batter is up with a runner on 2nd base and thereís a base hit to right field. The outfielder throws the ball to an infielder as the cut off man as the runner who was on second base rounds third and heads home and itís obvious if the infielder who took the cut off throw throws home they have the base runner out by a mile but the infielder just holds the ball and watches the runner score. It has a weird look to it.


But thatís just it. Itís a visualónot a scoringóissue.


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Old 05-21-2019, 12:37 PM   #11
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OOTP needs to hire a person whose sole job is to fix and improve the 3d plays. Smaller companies would depend on volunteers for this which there would be plenty.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:45 PM   #12
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In my opinion to help fix this holding of the ball while the runners advance, is to have the player throw the ball but throw it wide enough that the runner is safe. On all of these plays, the runner is safe, anyway. As soon as I see the fielder hold the ball, I know the runner is gonna be safe. So, have the guy throw the ball but make it a bit wide. I know there is one throw that's an overthrow. That involves an error. A wide throw that's not overthrown is not an error, just a wide throw. Not every throw should be right on a base.



Here is another play that gets me. Lay down a great bunt and the pitcher or catcher throws it away past first base on a bang-bang play. The result? 2 base error. Wrong scoring. Give the batter a hit and an error on the throw. On this play you are taking a hit away from the batter. Now, obviously, if it's a way slow runner and a good throw would have had him, that's a 2 base error. But when you have a bunt where the batter and the throw arrives at the same time, the batter is always giving a hit and goes to second on the bad throw. I would love for there to somehow be an option where I could rescore a play and fix it myself. There are a few other scoring errors, too. Twice in the last week I saw a team get 4 outs. And it didn't involve any catcher interference or a dropped third strike. I was in a 2 out jam and my pitcher struck out the batter swinging and I thought, yeah!, got out of it. Nope. The batter goes to the dugout and the next guy comes up and I'm like, hey!!, he don't get to bat. That's 3 outs!!! Nobody listened to me. No explanation why in the pbp. It was just WRONG.

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Old 05-21-2019, 02:40 PM   #13
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In my opinion to help fix this holding of the ball while the runners advance, is to have the player throw the ball but throw it wide enough that the runner is safe. On all of these plays, the runner is safe, anyway. As soon as I see the fielder hold the ball, I know the runner is gonna be safe. So, have the guy throw the ball but make it a bit wide. I know there is one throw that's an overthrow. That involves an error. A wide throw that's not overthrown is not an error, just a wide throw. Not every throw should be right on a base.
This could give the impression that the infielder has a bad arm or is otherwise a sub-par defender. The fix is syncing the timing of throws with the runners, not creating a different animation that doesn't reflect the true outcome.
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:51 PM   #14
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This could give the impression that the infielder has a bad arm or is otherwise a sub-par defender. The fix is syncing the timing of throws with the runners, not creating a different animation that doesn't reflect the true outcome.
It's both. But yes, ideally "bad throw" and "no throw" should be slightly different outcomes determined by the game engine.
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:25 PM   #15
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It's both. But yes, ideally "bad throw" and "no throw" should be slightly different outcomes determined by the game engine.
Right. No throw can be a product of where the ball is hit and the speed of the runner. So even the best defensive infielder in baseball history wouldn't have a chance to make a relay throw. So the previous suggestion of a "fix" is not realistic. I'd much rather have the current animation and understand that the timing is wrong than see an offline throw and wonder what the reason was.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:00 PM   #16
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An off line throw is more realistic than every throw being perfect. That's boring.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:05 PM   #17
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This could give the impression that the infielder has a bad arm or is otherwise a sub-par defender. The fix is syncing the timing of throws with the runners, not creating a different animation that doesn't reflect the true outcome.
The true outcome is that every single one of these plays where the player holds the ball, the runner is safe. Never have I seen a player thrown out when a fielder holds the ball. The outcome is always the same, They are always safe.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:08 PM   #18
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First thought...how would you ever have a player thrown out when the ball is held? By definition, if the ball is held there will never be an out.

Second, as to the original post, if the scorer deems the batter took third on the throw, rather than on the batted ball, then it would be a double and an extra base on the throw as noted. I would like to see more outs on those though...the batter is always safe.

(Note: I play in Modern 2D w/o animations.)
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:54 PM   #19
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The true outcome is that every single one of these plays where the player holds the ball, the runner is safe. Never have I seen a player thrown out when a fielder holds the ball. The outcome is always the same, They are always safe.
Huh?

Your suggestion of offline throws leads to the runner being safe every time, too. Yet that's not what's actually happening in the play. The throw is not being made, so that's what the animation should show because no throw is actually part of the outcome of the play.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:54 PM   #20
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I think the frustration is that once the 2B or SS receives the ball - there is no drama to the play. The runner is often short of 3B or just crossing and yet you know the result already. Part of what makes 3-D so great is the drama where you don't know if a runner will be safe or not but as currently coded the drama goes away. Matt said it is one of his to-do fixes so it will get there, and 3-D does keep improving, which is great.

One other note on this, there are just tons of non-bunts that go to the pitcher currently. I watch a lot of real games on TV or attend, and there might be 2 balls in play per game that the pitcher fields and are not bunts. It seems like the average OOTP game now has 5-6. I haven't run data on it, but it is certainly higher than IRL.
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