The Baseball Reference website

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Is it just me or is this thread getting a bit unhinged?

A bit?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Benchmark

I love when people ask me to prove things!


So here you go! (Sorry Admins I just had too!)


First thing I do is review every player on my spreadsheet. Since I know the count of players on my spreadsheet this gives me how many players I reviewed(That is my base number). I then cross match BR Stats on their profile page with MLBAM stats on the MLB.com page.(This includes minor leagues) Once I find a players stats are not matching on each site, I research the game logs of both sites to see where the error is. As you will see below, I detail every non matching stat and the cause of the error. Sometimes I don't even have to leave BR to find out there is an error. The player page stats don't match up with the game logs and splits. Now since I reported this almost 18 months ago, there has not been any changes in the players I reexamined. Now your going to say, no one puts this much time into going through stats of every player in the last 5 years, well there you would be wrong. Many people can vouch for me that I do this for a living and more. I do have a rep in this area, so I would not be blowing smoke if not true.Here are some examples as asked for so you can see for yourselves. Sorry No Pics.


Reynin Reynoso DSL Royals 2017 Game on 8/17 was cancelled and stats removed. Game Log doesn’t reflect this. Otherwise matches MLBAM. PA on Register should be 193 not 192. After removal of cancelled game. Per your Game Log and MLBAM.
Ismaldo Rodriguez DSL Royals 2015 G,PA,AB,BB,SO all are Correct on Game Logs (MLBAM Match) but Batting Register is wrong.
Mariano Calcano DSL MIN 2017 PA should be 133 not 130. Games Log and MLBAM support this.
Marco Van Der Wijst DSL Hou Orange 2017 PA s/b 125 not 124. Both Game Log and MLBAB match 125 if you remove the 8/17 Game that was cancelled.
Yhoelnys Gonzalez DSL OAK 2016 Games S/B 56 Game Logs missing 8/10 and 8/26 Played in Game but No AB in either game. Batting Register shows 57? And Game Log 54 for DSL.
Jorge Gordon DSL OAK 2015 PA and AB S/B 227 and 206. Both Your Game Log and MLBAM agree. Batting Register shows 226 and 205.
Carlos Hiciano DSL OAK 2017 PA Shows 143 on Batting Register. Game Log shows 144 Total MLBAM agrees with Game Log.
Jose Rivas DSL OAK 2015 PA 211 and AB 180 SO 20 wrong on Batting Register should be 210,179,19. Game Logs and MLBAM agree.

Steve Branche DSL SEA 2016 G,PA,AB,H Played in Game 6/14 but no AB. Otherwise Game Log and MLBAM match and Batting Register is wrong.
Jose Cano DSL SEA 2015 Batting Register shows 19 games but Game Log and MLBAM show 18.
Danny Contreras SEA DSL 2016 G,PA,AB,SO,CS.Batting Register Wrong Game Logs and MLBAM match.
Miguel Gamboa SEA DSL 2016 G and PA show 39 and 140 should be 40/141. Played in 6/14 Game and No PA. Game Logs and MLBAM match at 40/141.
Sebastian Ochoa DSL SEA 2016 G,PA,AB, Played in Game on 7/7 with no AB. PA and AB Game Logs and MLBAM show 135 and 118 with Batting Register showing 132 and 115.
Beder Gutierrez DSL TEX2 2016 G.PA.AB.H,2B.SO Game Logs and MLBAM match stats, but Batting Register is wrong. Played in 6/7 game but had no AB. a-Lined out for Gutierrez in the 2nd.
Angel Linares DSL TEX1 2016 Games should be 20. Batting Register says 21 and Game Log has 18. Game Logs are missing 6/14 & 7/4 Games in which he played but no AB.
Welin Liriano DSL TEX 2016 G,PA,AB,R,H.SO Game Log matches MLBAM while Batting Register is wrong.
Stanly Martinez DSL TEX2 2016 G,PA,AB,H,RBI,SO Game Log and MLBAM Match and Batting Register doesn’t. Game Log is missing 7/27 Game Played in Game No AB.
Max Morales DSL TEX2 2016 G,PA,AB,H,RBI,BB Game Logs Match MLBAM Stats but Batting Register Wrong.
Fernando Valdez DSL TEX2 2016 G,PA,AB,H,SO.Game Log Match MLBAM but Batting Register Doesn’t. Game log missing 6/6 Game where he played in but no AB.
Adrian Pernalete DSL TEX2 2016 PA,AB,R,H,2B,SO Game Log Matches MLBAM but Batting Register doesn’t. Game Log is missing 7/23 Game where he played in game but no AB.
Xxxxxxx
Bryan Bencosme DSL WAS 2016 PA should be 256 per Game Logs and MLBAM. Batting Register shows 255.
Landerson Pena DSL WAS 2016 PA should be 139 per Game Logs and MLBAM. Batting Register shows 138.
Fidel Matos VSL CHN 2015 Batting Register shows 50 Games but should be 51 per Game Logs and MLBAM. He Pitched in the 6/18 Game along with his 50 games he played in as a player. According to Your Standards, if a Pitcher pitches in a game he is recorded as Game Played in Batting Register.
Carlos Pacheco DSL Cubs1 2017 Batting Register shows 67 Games and 280 PA. MLBAM shows 67 Games 281 PA. Your Game Log shows 68 Games. If you remove the cancelled game for the game log.( Aug17 vs. DSL Astros Orange, Canceled: Rain). The Game Log will match MLBAM stats. Meaning the Batting Register’s PA are incorrect.
Herson Perez DSL Cubs1 2017 Batting Register shows 218 PA were MLBAM and Your Game Logs match at 219.
Alonso Gaitan DSLCubs2 2017 Batting Register shows 165 PA but Game Logs and MLBAM show 166 PA.
Orian Nunuz DSLCubs2 2016 Batting Register shows 226 PA while Game Logs and MLBAM show 227PA.
Cristian Olivo DSL Reds 2017 Batting Register shows 213 PA. Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 214 PA.
Carlos Reina DSL Rojos 2016&2017 Batting Registers show 178 & 159 PA but Game Logs, Batting Splits and MLBAM all show 179 &160.
----------
Luis De La Rosa DSL CLE 2015 G,PA,AB,H,SO Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all match but Batting Register doesn’t.
Pedro Castillo DSL PIT 2017 PA shows 146 for Batting Register, Game Log shows 149 (Note:AUG 17 vs. DSL Rangers1, Canceled: Rain-148) MLBAM shows 147. Have no idea who is correct but MLBAM and Game Logs usually match but Game Log shows 4AB on 8/5 Game while MLB shows 3AB. If 3 was correct like I believe it is after reviewing box score. 3AB and 1BB he couldn’t reach 5PA. This would mean MLBAM would match Game Logs and Splits at 147.
Samuel Inoa DSL PIT 2017 Batting Register shows 150 PA, the Game Logs and Splits match MLBAM at 151.
Victor Garcia DSL STL 2017 Batting Register shows 106 PA. Game Logs and Batting Splits along with MLBAM show 107PA.
Enyor Acosta DSL ARI1 2016 & 2017 Batting Register shows PA as 246 and 107. First 2016 Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all have 247. Next 2017 MLBAM shows 108, while Splits and Game Log show 109. The 6/5 Game he officially had no PA because he took over the AB for Sanchez. a-Struck out for Sanchez, D in the 7th. With this removal his PA should be 108 the same as MLBAM.
Jorge Bello DSL ARI2 2017 Batting Register shows 140PA while Game Logs,Splits and MLBAM all show 141PA.
Juan Gil DSL ARI2 2017 Batting Register shows 142 PA. While Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 143PA.
Hector Martinez DSL LAD2 2017 Batting Register shows 163 PA but Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 164 PA.
Jaffe Garcia DSL SDN 2016 Batting Register shows 47 Games while the Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 46 Games.
Luis Guzman DSL SDN 2015 Batting Register shows PA,AB,R,H,BB,SB ALL different stats than the Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM. They All Match.
Danny Tovar DSL SDN 2016 Batting Register shows 125PA when Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 126 PA.

Boy...You must be tremendous fun at parties. Picking other people's nits, and exposing their shortcomings, all the while purporting to be Mr. Perfect.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by BradG223

You may be pleased to see this post from Markus's AMA.

Can I thank this post a million times? That's awesome!!! Hope it applies to historical games as well.

[Benchmark]

This will be my last post on this thread since personal attacks are starting by the OOTP Hall of Famer. He doesn't attack the data just the person. Thanks Mods for allowing personnel attacks by OOTP Hall of Famers. No one else had any personal attacks this whole time.

My objective was to let the original poster know that BR was not a good stat data site and my experiences with BR. You would think a business would want to correct stats once they are brought to their attention. They don't and make excuses just like Dr StrangeLove is doing. Funny he Thanked someone but never responded how he knew the ins and out of the BR DSL like having 2 servers. Too late now.
No one here has even disputed the data I put out but instead started personal attacking me. You can make excuses for your data being wrong, but in the end it's still wrong and should be corrected like the other sites do when contacted. I don't hear complaining from Fangraph or MLBAM, they just fix the problem. BR ignores it and starts making excuses. Then wonders how it can be 9%. If you ran a cross check of your data every year you would find many answers. Now all you BR fan boys and stats creator go make up excuses for how it can't be 9%.
I will make one more post in a year from now when the above data is still is not fixed to make my point!

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Benchmark

This will be my last post on this thread since personal attacks are starting by the OOTP Hall of Famer. He doesn't attack the data just the person. Thanks Mods for allowing personnel attacks by OOTP Hall of Famers. No one else had any personal attacks this whole time.

You started the name-calling with the Dr. Theo comment, so step off your pedestal before you continue the conversation.

[NoOne]

people don't react well to smart... careful.

as far as determining if something is correct or not... as long as you have a base that is correct to compare to, it can be automated. it's very little effort with the right tools. so any incredulity about it is exaclty that.. a logical fallacy. probably more tied to some perceived threat and reacting to that threat when logical fallacies get thrown around.

a database with corrupt data is not much of a database. this isn't nitpicking. this isn't a personal relationship and not anything tied to emotion. this is fact and non-fact... every non-fact you include skews the data and ruins the use of it in some small way. how could you ever argue that it's okay for a database to have bad data or that correcting those bad entries is a nitpicky thing to do?

if you completely ignore the actual function of a database and how to mine it, then you could come to the conclusion that bad data is okay. the platter it resides on could make a good paper-wieght, i guess... but, not if it's on an SSD... hmmm... nope, no real use for a database with bad data at all.

bb-ref has enough good data and if you aren't mining their data it simply doesn't matter, but principles matter. integrity matters.. once you throw that out it's just worthless information strewn about. if you submitted something, and they don't fix it in ... a year? ... then you can assume they don't give 2 cents on the matter. i wouldn't expect them to react within days or weeks, though. i doubt it's a huge operation, but i could be wrong.

for the record -- any perception tied to # of posts or # of thanks is at best a weak correlation, if anything can be meaninfully tied to it at all. certainly not causal to anything but time spent on the forums.

[grall1126]

Be nice guys, only a game

[Benchmark]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You started the name-calling with the Dr. Theo comment, so step off your pedestal before you continue the conversation.

How is calling someone Dr Theodore L Turocy name calling? More of a compliment.This man runs the Chadwick Baseball Bureau and creates manipulation tools for many in baseball stats world. He was coming across like he does and I called him out because the database in question is HIS! I also apologized if I was wrong but clearly you missed that! He knows things about the database and servers that you and I(General Public) don't. The time this chat was going on you and the rest of the USA were sleeping.(I really don't care if you weren't sleeping either) It made sense that since he is from England he might be online in the morning in England. Does the OOTP board deserve to know if the creator is disputing his work under an alias? Again, once I asked him, he has left the posting to others.(And Thanked others after my posting). Wouldn't you like to know how he knows there are different databases if he is just a bystander? That is my explanation for the Dr. Theo comment, please let us know why it was name calling? It was more asking with an apology if I was wrong. I'm not on a pedestal, just don't like when HOF think they can put their two cents in where they clearly are out of their league in who Dr. Theo is!



P.S. I would apologize for that comment but it seems the only thing you HOF members know how to do is insult people. Maybe talk facts sometime and not try to bully people.

[Benchmark]

MODS PLEASE CLOSE THIS TREAD!

Since no one is challenging my finding from above, clearly there are errors on BR.

This will just get more out of hand and I will defend myself against BULLIES.

[kq76]

Benchmark, you need thicker skin. You're clearly into this topic, which is great (it's great to have hobbies we're passionate about; I'm into data too), but the tone of your posts clearly rub some people the wrong way. Did they go overboard? I don't think so.

If you had started the thread, I'd consider closing it, but since you didn't, I won't.

BRef is a great resource. Is it without fault? Of course not, but it still has value.

I wish you the best of luck in improving the various baseball databases out there.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by NoOne

for the record -- any perception tied to # of posts or # of thanks is at best a weak correlation, if anything can be meaninfully tied to it at all. certainly not causal to anything but time spent on the forums.

Agree 1,000%...Oh wait that's not mathematically possible ...100% with you on this.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by NoOne

people don't react well to snark... careful.

Fixed that for you.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Benchmark

MODS PLEASE CLOSE THIS TREAD!

Since no one is challenging my finding from above, clearly there are errors on BR.

This will just get more out of hand and I will defend myself against BULLIES.

I'm no bully my friend. I just treat respect with respect, and snark with snark. Simple as that. I have no doubt that you've found some errors at BB-Ref. It was setup by humans, and humans, by definition, are fallible (even you). I wish you only the best of success in your pursuit of perfection in an imperfect world. Just prepare yourself for a helluva lot of frustration because there's a helluva lot of imperfection out there.

You might want to consider that perhaps BB-Ref not getting back to you or fixing things to your standards has something to do with your tone rather than them not caring about having an imperfect database/website. You might find that following the old saw: "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" goes a lot further in getting the results that you're seeking. There's quite a difference between helpfully pointing out errors on the site (and perhaps offering to help them get things right), and browbeating people and insinuating that they're complete idiots because there are errors on the site.

That's how you've come off in this thread anyway, but I don't know you, nor have I seen your correspondence with Sean Forman and the rest of the operators of that site, so I can't say with 100% certainty that that is why you haven't had much luck so far. All the best in your quest to make it a more accurate site, and thank you for your efforts so far. A more accurate BB-Ref is in the best interest of baseball lovers everywhere. Peace. Namaste, and all that good stuff.

[Benchmark]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I'm no bully my friend.
Beg to differ. Prime example of a bully and you don't know it.

I just treat respect with respect
Interesting, please include post of disrespect. Would love to see what you call disrespect.

and snark with snark.
If you don't like my confidence that is your issue. I presented facts and you don't like it? Maybe your projecting your prejudice on others.

Simple as that.
So basically you formed an opinion on me and thought you should tell me I'm no fun at parties. Grow up.

I have no doubt that you've found some errors at BB-Ref.
Is there a reason you downplayed the number of errors? We all see that was just 15 teams in 1 year. Fan Boy or Paid by BR?

It was setup by humans, and humans, by definition, are fallible (even you).
If you know the Doctor, he hate manual adjustments because of human error. He only does computer and no manual. So love how you tried to make me fallible too. Sounding like them already, bash, bash,bash.

I wish you only the best of success in your pursuit of perfection in an imperfect world. Just prepare yourself for a helluva lot of frustration because there's a helluva lot of imperfection out there.

Love the drama you create there, sounding like them everyday.
Maybe you can get a job there. Is that code for don't stride for perfection even though you know the data is wrong? Good to know your standards.(Low)

You might want to consider that perhaps BB-Ref not getting back to you or fixing things to your standards has something to do with your tone rather than them not caring about having an imperfect database/website.
You really think that much of me hah? This was 18 months ago and the conversation was cordial. Keep trying to paint me as a disrespectful snark. I'm sure your making points with BR. Fan Boy or Paid?

You might find that following the old saw: "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" goes a lot further in getting the results that you're seeking. There's quite a difference between helpfully pointing out errors on the site (and perhaps offering to help them get things right), and browbeating people and insinuating that they're complete idiots because there are errors on the site.

Again our conversations were cordial, but keep trying, the board should be recognizing a pattern here. Really are you getting Paid or just an overzealous Fan Boy?

That's how you've come off in this thread anyway, but I don't know you, nor have I seen your correspondence with Sean Forman and the rest of the operators of that site, so I can't say with 100% certainty that that is why you haven't had much luck so far.
You are right, you don't know me and you made me a persona that you seem to hate. I would hate to have killed your dog if this is how you treat someone from a writing on a forum without malice. Just proves my point that you make this disrespectful and snark up in your head. Your prejudices against me are staggering. Maybe that is part of your answer to the top question. My only question is, Is this deliberate to keep us from talking about the real issue (Business Fraud) or maybe you need help, because I have reviewed my writings and find nothing disrespectful.

All the best in your quest to make it a more accurate site, and thank you for your efforts so far. A more accurate BB-Ref is in the best interest of baseball lovers everywhere. Peace. Namaste, and all that good stuff.

I have to be honest here, I don't report anything to BR anymore.
There non responsiveness put me off. I still work on reporting to Fangraph when I'm on there but mostly improving Milb is my mainstay.
Peace and Namaste to you also. Sorry you despise me.

For all the distractions and getting off topic here, was this by design so we would forget we never heard if the doctor was using an alias?
Lets get back to the topic and find out how he knows so much about BR Servers.

[Michael Xavier]

Originally Posted by Benchmark

MODS PLEASE CLOSE THIS TREAD!

Since no one is challenging my finding from above, clearly there are errors on BR.

This will just get more out of hand and I will defend myself against BULLIES.

This post is so amusing. It is like watching a burglar injure him or herself during a home invasion, and then sue the homeowner for damages and mental suffering.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Benchmark

How is calling someone Dr Theodore L Turocy name calling? More of a compliment.This man runs the Chadwick Baseball Bureau and creates manipulation tools for many in baseball stats world. He was coming across like he does and I called him out because the database in question is HIS! I also apologized if I was wrong but clearly you missed that! He knows things about the database and servers that you and I(General Public) don't. The time this chat was going on you and the rest of the USA were sleeping.(I really don't care if you weren't sleeping either) It made sense that since he is from England he might be online in the morning in England. Does the OOTP board deserve to know if the creator is disputing his work under an alias? Again, once I asked him, he has left the posting to others.(And Thanked others after my posting). Wouldn't you like to know how he knows there are different databases if he is just a bystander? That is my explanation for the Dr. Theo comment, please let us know why it was name calling? It was more asking with an apology if I was wrong. I'm not on a pedestal, just don't like when HOF think they can put their two cents in where they clearly are out of their league in who Dr. Theo is!



P.S. I would apologize for that comment but it seems the only thing you HOF members know how to do is insult people. Maybe talk facts sometime and not try to bully people.

You were being condescending. You know it, and we know it. And you're doing the same with this post.

[tward13]

Asking again, so as to adjust my level of concern:

Are the BB-Ref errors in the DSL and VSL leagues or also in the MLB stats?

[DustyElbows]

Benchmark has not proved that there are any errors in the BBRef data - just that there are differences between that data and data from other sources regarding the DSL only.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You were being condescending. You know it, and we know it. And you're doing the same with this post.

All you need to do is look at his posting history and notice that his tone is very combative and condescending when someone questions or disagrees with him and he likes to play the victim.

While he may be correct that BBREF may have some discrepancies, does it really take the joy out of playing the game if Juan Ortiz played in 19 games in 2015 but BBREF has him listed as playing 18? Unless he was at each of these games keeping the stats himself, will we really know which one is right?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Benchmark

I have to be honest here, I don't report anything to BR anymore.
There non responsiveness put me off. I still work on reporting to Fangraph when I'm on there but mostly improving Milb is my mainstay.
Peace and Namaste to you also. Sorry you despise me.

For all the distractions and getting off topic here, was this by design so we would forget we never heard if the doctor was using an alias?
Lets get back to the topic and find out how he knows so much about BR Servers.

So let me see here. You've:

1) Repeatedly labeled me a bully (in fact a prime example of a bully)
2) Called me out for "projecting my prejudice on others"
3) Told me to grow up
4) Repeatedly called me a fan boy of B-R/paid by B-R
5) Labeled my statistical standards as low
6) Accused me of hating you
7) Accused me of making stuff up in my head about you
8) Said that my prejudices against you are staggering
9) Accused me of derailing a thread which started off pretty innocuously and was in fact derailed by you
10) Told me I need help
11) Told me I despise you
12) Accused me of being a distraction and steering things off the topic of whether or not the doctor (Drstrangelove I presume ) is using an alias, and how he knows so much about the B-R servers which is not the actual topic of this thread

...and you got most of this out of a throw away one liner. I'm the one who's being disrespectful? Seriously?



Also, I didn't "try to make you fallible". You are fallible, unless of course, you're not human, which I doubt very much. Just out of curiousity, who is this "them" that I'm sounding like?