Your 2014 Hall Of Fame Ballot - Page 6

Astros33Resurrected · 12-02-2013, 11:24 AM

How can a sure fire hall of famer never get 100% of the vote? Do some voters just not vote? I was looking at the history of HoF voting , and Warren Spahn only had 83%. We are talking 17 time AS, Cy Young Winner with 363 wins and he barely gets over 80%? Whitey Ford only got 77%. I just don't know what to think about that.

I don't know a ton about the voting proces, so if anyone else does, please enlighten me

And sorry to throw off your thread Orcin, I know this isn't a HoF voting process debate, so I apologize in advance.

Sal, The Barber · 12-02-2013, 11:59 AM

Let Sal get the nonsense out of the way first. His first vote goes to Pete Rose.

Then Sal votes for:
Piazza
Bonds
Morris
Trammell
Raines
Maddux
Glavine
Bagwell
Biggio

By Sal's count, that's 10, but if he could not vote for Rose, he would vote for Frank Thomas.

attackemu · 12-02-2013, 02:19 PM

There are seriously 20 guys I think belong in the Hall on this ballot. It's crazy. My top ten, in alphabetical order:

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Maddux
Piazza
Raines
Thomas
Trammell
Walker

The other ten, for posterity:

Glavine
Kent
Martinez
McGriff
McGwire
Mussina
Palmeiro
Schilling
Smith
Sosa

The guy who isn't going to get the attention he deserves because of this crazy ballot is Moises Alou.

jbergey22 · 12-02-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

How can a sure fire hall of famer never get 100% of the vote? Do some voters just not vote? I was looking at the history of HoF voting , and Warren Spahn only had 83%. We are talking 17 time AS, Cy Young Winner with 363 wins and he barely gets over 80%? Whitey Ford only got 77%. I just don't know what to think about that.

I don't know a ton about the voting proces, so if anyone else does, please enlighten me

And sorry to throw off your thread Orcin, I know this isn't a HoF voting process debate, so I apologize in advance.

They look for reasons not to vote players in rather than reasons to vote them in. They make their own rules and seek attention on why they do things differently.

They all have their own ideas and agenda on what makes a HOF'er. I wish they would change the process.

gehrig38 · 12-02-2013, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Loved watching him hit. If only his back hadnt zapped much of his career and power I think w/o question he would be in.

Quick story
I get called up in 1988, face Guidry and the Yankees, always a HUGE Mattingly fan.
He went 2-2 with what ended up being about 2345 feet worth of home runs off me.
I always just assumed he was a HOF'er, never thought to look at his numbers because I remember him as a sheer force, just didn't realize it got cut that short.

jbergey22 · 12-02-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig38

Quick story
I get called up in 1988, face Guidry and the Yankees, always a HUGE Mattingly fan.
He went 2-2 with what ended up being about 2345 feet worth of home runs off me.
I always just assumed he was a HOF'er, never thought to look at his numbers because I remember him as a sheer force, just didn't realize it got cut that short.

Haha, that is some sheer force

September 27, 1988 New York Yankees at Baltimore Orioles Play by Play and Box Score - Baseball-Reference.com

Was that the Orioles team that lost 21 in a row or some other large number to start the season?

gehrig38 · 12-02-2013, 11:23 PM

Yup
And how about 4 Hall of Famers playing in that game too?
5 if Doug Sisk can get in....

attackemu · 12-03-2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig38

My Ballot minus #38

Maddux should be 100%, anyone not voting for him should lose their vote, seriously.
Frank Thomas
Glavine (2 WAR below Mussina in 900 more innings, makes the case more for Mussina I guess)
Biggio (you do 3000 of almost anything and you're real real good)
Larry Walker, people that didn't see the body of his career will write him off as Coors guy, 5 tool game changing player for a long time
Bagwell, was his teammate as a Rookie, I saw his TITANIC power that year even though he only hit 16, hit a HR in Pittsburgh that MIGHT have just landed, amazing teammate
Edgar Martinez, so undervalued it's embarrassing, DOMINANT offensive force
Tim Raines, it's a pathetic JOKE that he wasn't a 1st or 2nd ballot guy, to me the 2nd best leadoff hitter ever behind Rickey
Alan Trammell someone needs to educate the electorate on defensive value, this guy was the premier guy, or 2nd, for well over a decade at a premium position and won games both ways, often

"Minus #38" notwithstanding, you would vote for yourself, right?

Eckstein 4 Prez · 12-03-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackemu

"Minus #38" notwithstanding, you would vote for yourself, right?

Sort of seems like you'd put in the "minus #38" stuff to avoid just that discussion.

Still, though, the case is pretty obvious IMO. As you know, I hate the Red Sox Nation and give near-zero weight to any bloody sock-related arguments for the Hall of Fame. It's still not a close call - he (and Mussina) will be in easily as soon as the writers let go of the ridiculous notion that 300 wins is the appropriate standard of excellence for a modern starter.

ZiggyPop · 12-03-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackemu

"Minus #38" notwithstanding, you would vote for yourself, right?

That would be a very nice read... "Please explain why you deserve to be in the HoF".

jbergey22 · 12-03-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiggyPop

That would be a very nice read... "Please explain why you deserve to be in the HoF".

His numbers speak for themselves. I remember earlier in his career when he pitched for Philly. One season either 1995 or 1996 it seemed like he had to pitch a shutout every time out in order to win as his offense wasnt helping him. Looking at his stats it was probably the 1996 seasonl

jbergey22 · 12-03-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig38

Yup
And how about 4 Hall of Famers playing in that game too?
5 if Doug Sisk can get in....

Doug Sisk will get in soon enough

gehrig38 · 12-03-2013, 01:56 PM

Check out 1998 actually, 15-14, 15 Complete Games. Those teams sucked so very badly. But that year I started the season beating Maddux 1-0 with like 14 punchouts and then 2-1 in April, thought I was going to win 30

ZiggyPop · 12-03-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

His numbers speak for themselves. I remember earlier in his career when he pitched for Philly. One season either 1995 or 1996 it seemed like he had to pitch a shutout every time out in order to win as his offense wasnt helping him. Looking at his stats it was probably the 1996 seasonl

I'm not saying he doesn't belong, just thought the process would be very interesting!

jbergey22 · 12-03-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig38

Check out 1998 actually, 15-14, 15 Complete Games. Those teams sucked so very badly. But that year I started the season beating Maddux 1-0 with like 14 punchouts and then 2-1 in April, thought I was going to win 30

Ahh yes. Didnt help matters with the Braves in your division and having to face Maddux or Glavine every 3 weeks. Some fun games to watch if you enjoyed pitching.

jbergey22 · 12-03-2013, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiggyPop

I'm not saying he doesn't belong, just thought the process would be very interesting!

Oh I know it would be. If I were Doug Sisk however I wouldnt feel like I would need to be convincing. I think the body of work speaks for itself. In a time where hitters were juiced, the balls were maybe juiced, and pitchers started to become 6 inning pitchers Doug Sisk went out there every game determined to finish. I am sure he would never say this but his early teams were not good at all. Think King Felix pitching for the Mariners. That was Doug Sisk in the 90s. This was still during a time when more weight was put on pitching wins rather than actual individual performance.

If he had been fortunate enough to pitch on them Braves teams of the 90s he was winning 20+ games on a regular basis. In my opinion of course

It took until he pitched on some good teams for some people to actually realize how good he had always been.

Astros33Resurrected · 12-03-2013, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig38

Check out 1998 actually, 15-14, 15 Complete Games. Those teams sucked so very badly. But that year I started the season beating Maddux 1-0 with like 14 punchouts and then 2-1 in April, thought I was going to win 30

I remember after the Astros traded for The Big Unit, and I heard on ESPN that Curt Schilling was on the block. I was 100% certain we would resign Randy and trade for Curt. Then those damn Diamondbacks sweep in and make me cry

Questdog · 12-03-2013, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig38

Yup
And how about 4 Hall of Famers playing in that game too?
5 if Doug Sisk can get in....

Now, I didn't put Doug Sisk on my ballot, but he (the real Sisk) had to have one of the 'heaviest' fastballs of all time......he basically had no positives as a pitcher ecxept that no one could hit a home run off him.....

Mr. Schilling's case for the Hall is not clear cut (mainly due to not having enough lifetime wins), though I think he belongs easily. Was he ever considered one of the best pitchers in the league? Absolutely. Could an All-Star staff of his era be constructed without him on it? I don't think so. And the bloody sock surely doesn't hurt his chances.

There are just so many deserving candidates jumping on the ballot this year that a lot of the guys who deserve to go aren't going to get in right off. There will be idiots who will not vote for Mr. Schilling, just because they will want Mr. Maddux to be at the head of the class. There are always those criminal voters who try to manipulate the results with their ballots instead of just voting for who they think is worthy. Same thing happens with the MVP. Remember when Joe DiMaggio won the MVP over the fellow that had arguably the greatest season at bat that anyone has ever had because a writer didn't even have Ted Williams listed ANYWHERE on his ballot?

But Curt Schilling is a Hall of Famer and it will be made official eventually.

P.S. Doug Sisk is not eligible for induction into the Hall of Fame, having failed to meet the 10 year minimum rule.

Westheim · 12-03-2013, 06:18 PM

I've been only around baseball for three years. I don't even know half the guys on the ballot.

I will therefore nominate the following men, who undoubtedly deserved me looking them up around the internet:

Craig Biggio
Tom Glavine
Luis Gonzalez
Greg Maddux
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Frank Thomas

That's Frank Edward Thomas jr. - to be honest, so far I only knew Frank Joseph Thomas, the sorry soul who was an original Met.

I know, I know, I lose, I'm out.

Up here in Canada · 12-03-2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

I remember after the Astros traded for The Big Unit, and I heard on ESPN that Curt Schilling was on the block. I was 100% certain we would resign Randy and trade for Curt. Then those damn Diamondbacks sweep in and make me cry

Johnson's short stint with the Stros was as dominant as he's ever been, too.

12-02-2013, 02:19 PM	#103
attackemu All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 972	There are seriously 20 guys I think belong in the Hall on this ballot. It's crazy. My top ten, in alphabetical order: Bagwell Biggio Bonds Clemens Maddux Piazza Raines Thomas Trammell Walker The other ten, for posterity: Glavine Kent Martinez McGriff McGwire Mussina Palmeiro Schilling Smith Sosa The guy who isn't going to get the attention he deserves because of this crazy ballot is Moises Alou. __________________ "Disguised in EMU's Blunt and sometimes hostile post is actually very sound advice. I think you would be wise to consider what he said." -ihatenames

12-02-2013, 11:23 PM	#107
gehrig38 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Medfield, Mass Posts: 5,509	Yup And how about 4 Hall of Famers playing in that game too? 5 if Doug Sisk can get in.... __________________ The Chicago Iron Pigs 2012-2024 The IBL's first 13 years The Alaska Avalanche 2024-2030 Moving on to my birthplace The San Antonio Silver Stars 2030-2034 From one big state, Alaska, to another, Texas! Last edited by gehrig38; 12-03-2013 at 05:24 AM.

12-03-2013, 01:56 PM	#113
gehrig38 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Medfield, Mass Posts: 5,509	Check out 1998 actually, 15-14, 15 Complete Games. Those teams sucked so very badly. But that year I started the season beating Maddux 1-0 with like 14 punchouts and then 2-1 in April, thought I was going to win 30 __________________ The Chicago Iron Pigs 2012-2024 The IBL's first 13 years The Alaska Avalanche 2024-2030 Moving on to my birthplace The San Antonio Silver Stars 2030-2034 From one big state, Alaska, to another, Texas!

12-03-2013, 06:18 PM	#119
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 13,767	I've been only around baseball for three years. I don't even know half the guys on the ballot. I will therefore nominate the following men, who undoubtedly deserved me looking them up around the internet: Craig Biggio Tom Glavine Luis Gonzalez Greg Maddux Jack Morris Mike Mussina Curt Schilling Frank Thomas That's Frank Edward Thomas jr. - to be honest, so far I only knew Frank Joseph Thomas, the sorry soul who was an original Met. I know, I know, I lose, I'm out. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 92 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

12-02-2013, 11:24 AM	#101
Astros33Resurrected Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lufkin, TX Posts: 2,213	How can a sure fire hall of famer never get 100% of the vote? Do some voters just not vote? I was looking at the history of HoF voting , and Warren Spahn only had 83%. We are talking 17 time AS, Cy Young Winner with 363 wins and he barely gets over 80%? Whitey Ford only got 77%. I just don't know what to think about that. I don't know a ton about the voting proces, so if anyone else does, please enlighten me And sorry to throw off your thread Orcin, I know this isn't a HoF voting process debate, so I apologize in advance.

12-02-2013, 11:59 AM	#102
Sal, The Barber All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Youngstown, OH Posts: 594	Let Sal get the nonsense out of the way first. His first vote goes to Pete Rose. Then Sal votes for: Piazza Bonds Morris Trammell Raines Maddux Glavine Bagwell Biggio By Sal's count, that's 10, but if he could not vote for Rose, he would vote for Frank Thomas.