PC Gamer Review

[thehatfield]

Originally Posted by daves

I am not a Soccer fan at all. But does anyone play Football Manager? Seems to be a popular game.

Love it - all the way back to the Championship Manager days. But, also, my dad's from England so soccer was pretty present in our household growing up.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by madJ

I can't agree completely. I'm from Europe and I love football (or soccer as it is called in the USA). But I can agree that there is much to like about baseball once you understand the game. I can't prove it, but I would say that most europeans have a problem with no obvious game flow. The time between the plays is what makes it boring for most people over here. And therefor there are too many people who are not willing to even try to understand baseball.

I have played soccer/association football since I was 8 and still play (I am playing tonight, in fact). It's a good game and it's great fun to play, but it's not baseball.

[madJ]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I have played soccer/association football since I was 8 and still play (I am playing tonight, in fact). It's a good game and it's great fun to play, but it's not baseball.

It all depends on the culture. I was surrounded with soccer all the time. I can't even imagine not supporting my local club by going to the stadium. But that's another fact: here in Europe baseball will never draw such a big crowd as soccer does. That's why I won't ever value baseball higher. But of course that's just me.
And don't get me wrong, I stay up late on weekends to watch baseball.

[The Wolf]

It's not about value: it's about depth.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by madJ

I can't agree completely. I'm from Europe and I love football (or soccer as it is called in the USA). But I can agree that there is much to like about baseball once you understand the game. I can't prove it, but I would say that most europeans have a problem with no obvious game flow. The time between the plays is what makes it boring for most people over here. And therefor there are too many people who are not willing to even try to understand baseball.

So no one watches cricket?

[madJ]

Originally Posted by RchW

So no one watches cricket?

Not in Germany.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

It's not about value: it's about depth.

It's about history and tradition. I grew up with soccer and got into baseball 20 years later. I have no local baseball club I root for. But I'm at the soccer stadium in just 20 minutes. This atmosphere can't be reproduced by watching baseball on TV or Internet.

[Lumber-n-Lightning]

Originally Posted by madJ

Not in Germany.

Cricket is not European; it's British. (Pace to Brits who don't deny being European.)

Originally Posted by madJ

It's about history and tradition. I grew up with soccer and got into baseball 20 years later. I have no local baseball club I root for. But I'm at the soccer stadium in just 20 minutes. This atmosphere can't be reproduced by watching baseball on TV or Internet.

Baseball wasn't made for TV. Radio and baseball, on the other hand, is a match made in heaven. Then the slow pace and the time between the action allows a great play-by-play or color guy the space to tell stories, relate history, entertain, and tie it all back into tradition. I'd listen to a Vin Scully or a Bob Prince call a grocery store checkout line. Can't say I'd do the same for any other announcers from any other sport.

I'm a Yank ,and die-hard Toffee, who only came to soccer at age 25. I love watching footie on TV, but "Giggs. Now Scholes. Back to Giggs. Over to Rooney on the right," without visuals is nowhere near as informative or evocative as "Fastball, high and tight. Ball one," or "Hard chopper over the mound," without need of further embellishment. (Same can be said of American football, basketball, ice hockey, et cetera, et cetera.) And the crack of the bat on sharp contact it is maybe the one sporting moment that radio can translate without need of commentator or crowd reaction.

[daves]

Originally Posted by madJ

I can't agree completely. I'm from Europe and I love football (or soccer as it is called in the USA). But I can agree that there is much to like about baseball once you understand the game. I can't prove it, but I would say that most europeans have a problem with no obvious game flow. The time between the plays is what makes it boring for most people over here. And therefor there are too many people who are not willing to even try to understand baseball.

I always felt that one or two goals scored in soccer meant that you won the game. That's why soccer is not as popular in the US.

[madJ]

Originally Posted by daves

I always felt that one or two goals scored in soccer meant that you won the game. That's why soccer is not as popular in the US.

But the slow pace of baseball (this is also in response to Lumber-n-Lightning) is the main reason why it's not quite as popular in Europe. Baseball wasn't even shown on TV while it still was part of the olympic games.

But what Lumber-n-Lightning said about radio broadcasts of baseball games is very true. It's much more appealing than soccer on the radio.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by madJ

Not in Germany.

Hmm I missed the memo about having to mind read what country you are discussing.

[daves]

Originally Posted by madJ

But the slow pace of baseball (this is also in response to Lumber-n-Lightning) is the main reason why it's not quite as popular in Europe. Baseball wasn't even shown on TV while it still was part of the olympic games.

But what Lumber-n-Lightning said about radio broadcasts of baseball games is very true. It's much more appealing than soccer on the radio.

Your correct. Baseball can be difficult to watch at times because of the pace and soccer has an incredible international following.

[Lumber-n-Lightning]

Originally Posted by daves

I always felt that one or two goals scored in soccer meant that you won the game. That's why soccer is not as popular in the US.

Baseball and hockey fans can understand the appeal of a 1-0 or 2-1 final score, but yeah, US sports fans are largely brought up on sports where you score in batches (football) or failure to score during a possession is noteworthy (basketball).

That and the injury histrionics of soccer. As much as I enjoy following English football, even in this "toughest" of football cultures, watching grown men roll around on the ground in agony for the slightest of touches, then bouncing up and rejoining play moments later, is distasteful. Stanley Cup hockey it ain't.

Originally Posted by madJ

But the slow pace of baseball (this is also in response to Lumber-n-Lightning) is the main reason why it's not quite as popular in Europe. Baseball wasn't even shown on TV while it still was part of the olympic games.

But what Lumber-n-Lightning said about radio broadcasts of baseball games is very true. It's much more appealing than soccer on the radio.

Ironically, I fell in love with football/soccer while listening to the '95 FA Cup Final on shortwave.

[MizzouRah]

I stopped reading after this:

Out of the Park Baseball 13 is a baseball management simulator in the mould of Football Manager. I know a lot about management; less about baseball.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Lumber-n-Lightning

I'd listen to a Vin Scully or a Bob Prince call a grocery store checkout line. Can't say I'd do the same for any other announcers from any other sport.

Ever hear Denny Matthews, the Royals primary announcer? He's outstanding.

[Lumber-n-Lightning]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Ever hear Denny Matthews, the Royals primary announcer? He's outstanding.

Can't say I've ever caught him. I'll look him up.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Lumber-n-Lightning

Can't say I've ever caught him. I'll look him up.

He's as good as it gets.

[royalblue]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Ever hear Denny Matthews, the Royals primary announcer? He's outstanding.

I love Denny Matthews. With how the pitful the Royals have been in my lifetime(they have only made the playoffs once in my lifetime I was a year old) he even makes games in August and September worth listening to. It will be a sad day when he finally retires from calling Royals games. It just won't be the same. He has been calling Royals games since 1969 when the Royals were an expansion team.

[rudel.dietrich]

The review first appeared in PC Gamer UK and was just being reposted on the US site.

I didn't think the review was too bad. Both OOTP and FM are sports management sims so it is not exactly an apples to oranges comparison.
And FM is the gold standard for sports sims on the market, so comparing yourself against it is not nessecarily a bad way to make your game better year in and year out.

The biggest difference is that OOTP is made by one full time person and two part time people and FM is made by a staff of almost 100 with a much larger budget.

For the game to be reviewed by a foreign person who knows nothing about baseball and still draw a '78' is impressive. I think that goes to show that OOTP is a good game no matter the subject matter and is easily picked up and learned.

[The Wolf]

Well, yes, Rudel, but if an American magazine was reviewing FM, don't you think that they should at least get an American who understood association football to review it?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by royalblue

I love Denny Matthews. With how the pitful the Royals have been in my lifetime(they have only made the playoffs once in my lifetime I was a year old) he even makes games in August and September worth listening to. It will be a sad day when he finally retires from calling Royals games. It just won't be the same. He has been calling Royals games since 1969 when the Royals were an expansion team.

He does a great job, and has been the voice of the Royals for so long that I dread his leaving as well. I visit KC on business pretty regularly and he and the barbecue are two of the high points when I'm there.