Canadian Names

dave1927p · 02-23-2009, 01:49 AM

Players and coaches from Ontario and western canada don't have french names, so they shouldn't in ootp.

I make a canadian baseball league and it's infuriating the number of players born from ontario or western canada that have french names. FIX this OOTP, please.

kq76 · 02-23-2009, 03:46 AM

If you really wanted to, I think you could fix this yourself by creating the provinces as countries in the nations.txt file and editing it as you see fit.

That said, I think it would help if OOTP allowed for regions within and including countries. That way you could lump multiple states, provinces or countries into the same record. With the workaround I suggested above, I believe you lose the country.

RchW · 02-23-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

Players and coaches from Ontario and western canada don't have french names, so they shouldn't in ootp.

I make a canadian baseball league and it's infuriating the number of players born from ontario or western canada that have french names. FIX this OOTP, please.

I understand your point but strictly speaking it's not true. There are small but significant Francophone populations in Manitoba especially, Saskatchewan and Alberta. Almost everybody I know in Haileybury or New Liskeard in Northern ON is French descent.

I agree that you shouldn't have the same % francophone names in the west. Kq76 has a possible work around but losing the country part may not be worth it.

Splitter24 · 02-23-2009, 03:59 PM

There's more than the OP realizes. As an example, go to legendsofhockey.net

Search for places of birth (try Ontario for instance) and go searching through the list of players. I think you'll be shocked by the number of players with French names born outside of Quebec.

satchel · 02-23-2009, 05:41 PM

I'd like to ditto what Splitter and RchW said. There are thousands of French-Canadians scattered all over Canada.

satchel · 02-23-2009, 05:51 PM

According to the University of British Columbia's Language Education Research Center, there were more than 269,000 French speakers living in British Columbia in 2006; Ontario had over a million. Not all were of French-Canadian ancestry, but there's surely a large correlation.

tchalifour · 02-23-2009, 10:00 PM

I personally up the number of French Canadians in OOTP to a much higher level. I like seeing "Chalifour" pop up every once in a while.

dave1927p · 02-23-2009, 11:25 PM

i can't speak for western canada, but the players in the NHL with french (last) names born in ontario are very, very few so your point with the hockey legends isn't accurate. french canadians that move from Quebec tend to give their children english first names too, but thats besides the point. This game just has way too many french names for ontario born players, at least when you make an all canadian league and it makes sense that the game screws this up because they just classify all the names as 'canadian'

kq76 · 02-23-2009, 11:38 PM

I think that's basically the problem. Yes, of course there are French Canadians all across Canada, but there are a heck of a lot more French Canadians in Quebec per capita than anywhere else and the further away you get the less there are. I'm from Ottawa originally (Vancouver now) and I can tell you that my recollection of Ottawa (it's very close to Quebec) was that there were more French than English or at least it was very very close. That may not have been the truth (I was young and didn't know French so I didn't understand a lot of people), but that's how I saw it at the time. And from what I've heard, they're fairly common in the maritimes, but still less. In contrast, in Vancouver I find it pretty rare to meet a French Canadian. Yeah, you meet one every once in a blue moon, but it's predominantly English and Asian Canadians out here.

I'd personally like to see it where we could tailor it to user-defined regions as we're just not that evenly spread of a nation. I don't know for sure, but it's my guess that it would be like seeing a lot of black players in OOTP born in states like Utah, Nebraska and Alaska. It just doesn't fit how you see the world. Sure, the odd Francophone should be from BC, but it shouldn't be at the same frequency as nationally.

Tony M · 02-24-2009, 09:49 AM

I did propose a much more wide-ranging nations and city.txt upgrade for OOTP9 (and I Think I copied it into OOTP10) that would allow for this type of thing.

Splitter24 · 02-24-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

i can't speak for western canada, but the players in the NHL with french (last) names born in ontario are very, very few so your point with the hockey legends isn't accurate.

Not accurate? 275 NHL hockey players from Ontario with French last names seems a little more than "very, very few."

canadiancreed · 02-24-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

I did propose a much more wide-ranging nations and city.txt upgrade for OOTP9 (and I Think I copied it into OOTP10) that would allow for this type of thing.

Something that we can support, and would make things easier for many areas of the world where this type of situation exists.

Long_Long_Name · 03-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

Players and coaches from Ontario and western canada don't have french names, so they shouldn't in ootp.

I make a canadian baseball league and it's infuriating the number of players born from ontario or western canada that have french names. FIX this OOTP, please.

I wonder if Justin Morneau speaks French. On the other hand, Russell Martin's first language is French.

I can understand how it can be a bothersome point, but infuriating?

Afino · 03-10-2009, 06:48 PM

One of the things I did when I created my NHL name/nation set was up the percentage of French-Canadian players because I didn't think I saw ENOUGH.

dave1927p · 03-10-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitter24

Not accurate? 275 NHL hockey players from Ontario with French last names seems a little more than "very, very few."

i am not just talking about last names. French first names in ootp aren't classisfied as french so we can get a Guillaume Smith, or a Laurent Jones.

Also consider how many hockey players have played in the NHL, and you will see the number is very few.

dave1927p · 03-10-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

I wonder if Justin Morneau speaks French. On the other hand, Russell Martin's first language is French.

I can understand how it can be a bothersome point, but infuriating?

well, it's only infuriating because in almost every game with canadians, they don't bother making two categories for french names and english names.

Long_Long_Name · 03-10-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

well, it's only infuriating because in almost every game with canadians, they don't bother making two categories for french names and english names.

Well, that makes it even more puzzling.

So, you'd rather have a Marc-André Nicholson and an Andrew Thibodeau from Edmonton than a Marc-André Thibodeau and an Andrew Nicholson? And that's infuriating?

I understand it's not ideal. I, too, would like to see naming patterns making more sense. But, that said, doesn't it make more sense to have French and English be separated so that first names and last names correspond more often? To me, anyway, it does.

Also, there is no English Canadian file - there's only a "Canadian" file, and a "French Canadian" file. It's not perfect, but it's closer to what you want than complete segregation, which I think is a pretty good idea (don't quote me out of context here

).

Antonin · 04-09-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

I did propose a much more wide-ranging nations and city.txt upgrade for OOTP9 (and I Think I copied it into OOTP10) that would allow for this type of thing.

I love the fact that OOTP allows us to create players from a number of nationalities. But it would be nice to be able to break down "African" into regions (at least), with the ability to have some name differentiation between regions.

dave1927p · 04-17-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

Well, that makes it even more puzzling.

So, you'd rather have a Marc-André Nicholson and an Andrew Thibodeau from Edmonton than a Marc-André Thibodeau and an Andrew Nicholson? And that's infuriating?

what?

treedom · 04-17-2009, 09:20 PM

With all the regional idiosyncrasies all over the world, I think it would require a lot of work to get a model that's anywhere near realistic in all cases. It'd be a whole app in and of itself, probably.

Luckily for me, I've taken to simming nice and slow like in recent years. That and the fact that I like my solo leagues small (8 teams, usually) has allowed me to manually name all my players. My league is based in England and is set to 95% foreign, with talent comming in mostly from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, so the game generated names are in some cases pretty far off the mark.

02-23-2009, 01:49 AM	#1
dave1927p FHM Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brantford, ON Posts: 2,906	Canadian Names Players and coaches from Ontario and western canada don't have french names, so they shouldn't in ootp. I make a canadian baseball league and it's infuriating the number of players born from ontario or western canada that have french names. FIX this OOTP, please. __________________ IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence?

02-23-2009, 03:46 AM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,772	If you really wanted to, I think you could fix this yourself by creating the provinces as countries in the nations.txt file and editing it as you see fit. That said, I think it would help if OOTP allowed for regions within and including countries. That way you could lump multiple states, provinces or countries into the same record. With the workaround I suggested above, I believe you lose the country. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

02-23-2009, 03:59 PM	#4
Splitter24 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Willsboro, NY Posts: 2,895	There's more than the OP realizes. As an example, go to legendsofhockey.net Search for places of birth (try Ontario for instance) and go searching through the list of players. I think you'll be shocked by the number of players with French names born outside of Quebec. __________________ Currently Reading: The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen "Well, the game is afoot. I’ll take anal bum cover for 7,000." - "Sean Connery" SNL Celebrity Jeopardy R.I.P. Tommy Holmes 1917-2008

02-23-2009, 05:41 PM	#5
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	I'd like to ditto what Splitter and RchW said. There are thousands of French-Canadians scattered all over Canada. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

02-23-2009, 10:00 PM	#7
tchalifour Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston/New York Posts: 39	I personally up the number of French Canadians in OOTP to a much higher level. I like seeing "Chalifour" pop up every once in a while. __________________ I'm shipping up to Boston. "I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul. I plan to face him with the zeal of a challenger." - Ichiro Suzuki on facing Diasuke Matsuzaka

02-23-2009, 05:51 PM	#6
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	According to the University of British Columbia's Language Education Research Center, there were more than 269,000 French speakers living in British Columbia in 2006; Ontario had over a million. Not all were of French-Canadian ancestry, but there's surely a large correlation.

02-23-2009, 11:25 PM	#8
dave1927p FHM Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brantford, ON Posts: 2,906	i can't speak for western canada, but the players in the NHL with french (last) names born in ontario are very, very few so your point with the hockey legends isn't accurate. french canadians that move from Quebec tend to give their children english first names too, but thats besides the point. This game just has way too many french names for ontario born players, at least when you make an all canadian league and it makes sense that the game screws this up because they just classify all the names as 'canadian' __________________ IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence?

02-23-2009, 11:38 PM	#9
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,772	I think that's basically the problem. Yes, of course there are French Canadians all across Canada, but there are a heck of a lot more French Canadians in Quebec per capita than anywhere else and the further away you get the less there are. I'm from Ottawa originally (Vancouver now) and I can tell you that my recollection of Ottawa (it's very close to Quebec) was that there were more French than English or at least it was very very close. That may not have been the truth (I was young and didn't know French so I didn't understand a lot of people), but that's how I saw it at the time. And from what I've heard, they're fairly common in the maritimes, but still less. In contrast, in Vancouver I find it pretty rare to meet a French Canadian. Yeah, you meet one every once in a blue moon, but it's predominantly English and Asian Canadians out here. I'd personally like to see it where we could tailor it to user-defined regions as we're just not that evenly spread of a nation. I don't know for sure, but it's my guess that it would be like seeing a lot of black players in OOTP born in states like Utah, Nebraska and Alaska. It just doesn't fit how you see the world. Sure, the odd Francophone should be from BC, but it shouldn't be at the same frequency as nationally. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) Last edited by kq76; 02-23-2009 at 11:41 PM.

02-24-2009, 09:49 AM	#10
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	I did propose a much more wide-ranging nations and city.txt upgrade for OOTP9 (and I Think I copied it into OOTP10) that would allow for this type of thing. __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

03-10-2009, 06:48 PM	#14
Afino Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 3,828	One of the things I did when I created my NHL name/nation set was up the percentage of French-Canadian players because I didn't think I saw ENOUGH. __________________ GUBA: Moscow Enforcers

04-17-2009, 09:20 PM	#20
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	With all the regional idiosyncrasies all over the world, I think it would require a lot of work to get a model that's anywhere near realistic in all cases. It'd be a whole app in and of itself, probably. Luckily for me, I've taken to simming nice and slow like in recent years. That and the fact that I like my solo leagues small (8 teams, usually) has allowed me to manually name all my players. My league is based in England and is set to 95% foreign, with talent comming in mostly from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, so the game generated names are in some cases pretty far off the mark. __________________ A rake and a roustabout.