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Old 04-16-2008, 05:20 PM   #1
Wolfbane
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Feeder League Issues
I thought that I would bring up some issues that I have with feeder leagues since people are discussing player development right now. For me, feeder leagues are a feature that contributes alot to my leagues. I like the idea of having stats in combination with scouting reports, to help with drafting. I also am endeared to the idea of the small college or high school player moving all the way to the big leagues and being able to track his path. Anyways, getting back on topic, I have two issues that I have encountered with feeder leagues as they are presented right now.

First, there is the issue of what I call the "ichiro suzuki's of feeders (forgive my lack of ingenuity when it comes to names). This is a problem that happens in my feeders leagues no matter what computer I play my game on, yet it is one I have never seen discussed on the forums. Basically, I am having problems with players that have high contact ratings, and I mean current ratings not potential, coming out of feeder leagues. These players also have no other high ratings or potentials ratings in any other categories. When drafted, they proceed to tear up the league with singles and get to the major leagues soon if not instantly promoted their from the draft. Now getting to the part that really annoys me. First, these players usually have no other high ratings than contact(the exceptions being you find amazing fielders or fast base runners sometimes) meaning they get loads of singles but strike out alot with no extra base hits. This means you can find an 18 year old, hitting .350 in hist first major league system, with no walks, something like 150-180 strikeouts, and no more than 10 doubles, triples, and home runs. This makes no sense, the amount of strikeouts is a sign that he should not have that contact ability whatsoever. Literally, try finding a player in the majors that has less than 30 walks, over 150 strikeouts, and hits over .300, it does not exist. This further aggrivates me when some of their good preformances help them get potential jumps that turn them into great sluggers. Second, I believe no player out of high school should be coming out with a current contact rating of 15(1-20 scale), but there are many each year that do for me. I can understand a player like Ichiro coming around once in a while and this is what the game is trying to replicate. Yet, these player should not have such poor of a batting eye and they come to frequently. In a league with 80 feeder teams, i find many players each draft with high contact ratings ranging from 19-6 with this profile, below this level it becomes irrelevant for me. At one point, I tried retiring them when the draft pool came up, but this became very tedious, especially in larger leagues. These players slaughter the minor league records putting up averages as high as .500.

In summary, if you could look into this occurence, it would be greatly appreciated. I do not believe this is linked to one computer or game for I have used many. I would not think that fixing this player generation problem would be a severe issue, though i could be wrong. If anyone has experience this problem, please speak up with your thoughts.
I can post some data if you need evidence.

The second issue I have, I will attempt to be brief with. I think there should be away to control the amount of talent generated in a feeder league. Simply put, I am wondering is there any way to make it so only 1 or players with any major league level of talent, like 30+ on the 20-80 scale, can be generated per team. For example, I went to high school in Toronto; in my graduation year a few years ago, my school made it to the final for the greater toronto area, and were one of the best teams in gta if not the best. However, only one player ever went to an American college with a baseball scholarship, we dont really see many scouts either. Out of the area I can only recount three players from the area that will see any time in the majors; George Kottaras, Pete Orr, Scott THorman, and Sean Hill. Basically, I am asking is there anyways to limit the talent coming out of feeder where you do not want many good players coming from, but still have it bringin players to your league. Sorry for the lecture, I am too long worded when i post.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:29 PM   #2
johnnybourbon
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I've seen a lot of what you were saying in part 1. I generally scoop up these guys in later rounds to fill up my minors. I resist bringing up to the majors. I agree with your observation in this regards.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:37 PM   #3
Wolfbane
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I should note, for the first part mainly, does anyone have a serious issue with this in any way. Also, thank you for your response, it is good to know my game of OOTP does not exist in a bubble with it only having this problem.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:40 PM   #4
rogmax11
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The problem with fictional creations isnt limited to feeder league players; Ive pretty much given up on fictionals because of similar impossible creatures littering my leagues. I still remember the amazing Dave "Pat" Patterson who burst onto the scene at the ripe old age of 18 by hitting .380 with 262 hits, only 3 of which were for extra bases. Thats right folks: 2 doubles, one homerun, 259 singles.

Adios reality, buh-bye league, gnash teeth.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:41 PM   #5
Who Killed Kenny?
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I think there is an issue when you first create a feeder league, there are too many good players. But after a couple of seasons the players comign out of the feeder leagues are more normal. How long have you played your league?
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:46 PM   #6
Wolfbane
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In response to the fourth reply, I have several leagues with feeders I played through at least 25 years. There is always an imablance at the start but eventually after five seasons I believe you should be close to what your looking for. However, In a league where I was running for 25 years, I looked through the feeder teams and there are mostly 5-8 players with a potential of 40-80 on the 20-80 scale(I do verify the potentials in commissioner mode).

Also, I am looking for a way to make it so there is minimal or no major league talent on a team. Something like a slider to increase genral talent in a feeder or decrease it to nearly non-existent. I like feeders, many feeders, but i do not want to get flooded with prospects as a consequence.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogmax11 View Post
The problem with fictional creations isnt limited to feeder league players; Ive pretty much given up on fictionals because of similar impossible creatures littering my leagues. I still remember the amazing Dave "Pat" Patterson who burst onto the scene at the ripe old age of 18 by hitting .380 with 262 hits, only 3 of which were for extra bases. Thats right folks: 2 doubles, one homerun, 259 singles.

Adios reality, buh-bye league, gnash teeth.
That indeed should not happen, there's certainly a bug there... I'll look into it!

Can a beta tester please create a BZ for me, I do not have access to it at the moment. Thanks!!
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:54 PM   #8
Wolfbane
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In response to rogmax11
It is interesting that you say it is not limited to feeder leagues. I have created small, low ML coefficient leaguies that have generated high current ratings, but they were never very high overall due to the coefficient. I assumed it was a problem of you can generate players with ratings only so low, ex a hitter cant have contact below 1, and most have higher than that so they have a contact of 5 or 6, which would be amazing for the league. Yes, this also irritates me for the AI love to scoop up these players in random middle rounds and find an instant leadoff man. Thanks for the contribution.

Finally, I present you with Wally Ross.
<TABLE class=lpo style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=911><TBODY><TR><TD class=h4>Career Minor League Batting Stats</TD></TR><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=hsc0 width=201>Year/Team/League</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>Age</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>G</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>AB</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>H</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>2B</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>3B</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>HR</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>RBI</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>R</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>BB</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>HP</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>SF</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>K</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>SB</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>CS</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>AVG</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>OBP</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>SLG</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>OPS</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>VORP</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg>1901 Vermont University - COL</TD><TD class=srg>20</TD><TD class=srg>151</TD><TD class=srg>605</TD><TD class=srg>194</TD><TD class=srg>10</TD><TD class=srg>2</TD><TD class=srg>2</TD><TD class=srg>48</TD><TD class=srg>72</TD><TD class=srg>34</TD><TD class=srg>15</TD><TD class=srg>1</TD><TD class=srg>129</TD><TD class=srg>55</TD><TD class=srg>19</TD><TD class=srg>.321</TD><TD class=srg>.371</TD><TD class=srg>.354</TD><TD class=srg>.725</TD><TD class=srg>19.6</TD></TR><TR><TD class=sl>1902 Vermont University - COL</TD><TD class=sr>21</TD><TD class=sr>149</TD><TD class=sr>621</TD><TD class=sr>201</TD><TD class=sr>18</TD><TD class=sr>1</TD><TD class=sr>2</TD><TD class=sr>51</TD><TD class=sr>81</TD><TD class=sr>28</TD><TD class=sr>16</TD><TD class=sr>2</TD><TD class=sr>130</TD><TD class=sr>54</TD><TD class=sr>23</TD><TD class=sr>.324</TD><TD class=sr>.367</TD><TD class=sr>.366</TD><TD class=sr>.733</TD><TD class=sr>19.7</TD></TR><TR class=hsx><TD class=h2l>Total MLBCOL</TD><TD class=h2r></TD><TD class=h2r>300</TD><TD class=h2r>1226</TD><TD class=h2r>395</TD><TD class=h2r>28</TD><TD class=h2r>3</TD><TD class=h2r>4</TD><TD class=h2r>99</TD><TD class=h2r>153</TD><TD class=h2r>62</TD><TD class=h2r>31</TD><TD class=h2r>3</TD><TD class=h2r>259</TD><TD class=h2r>109</TD><TD class=h2r>42</TD><TD class=h2r>.322</TD><TD class=h2r>.369</TD><TD class=h2r>.360</TD><TD class=h2r>.729</TD><TD class=h2r>39.3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=lpo style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=911><TBODY><TR><TD class=h4>Career Batting Stats</TD></TR><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=hsc0 width=201>Year/Team/League</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>Age</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>G</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>AB</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>H</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>2B</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>3B</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>HR</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>RBI</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>R</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>BB</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>HP</TD><TD class=hsnr width=30>SF</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>K</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>SB</TD><TD class=hsnr width=35>CS</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>AVG</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>OBP</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>SLG</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>OPS</TD><TD class=hsnr width=44>VORP</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg>1903 Minnesota - MLB</TD><TD class=srg>22</TD><TD class=srg>139</TD><TD class=srg>594</TD><TD class=srg>204</TD><TD class=srg>8</TD><TD class=srg>6</TD><TD class=srg>5</TD><TD class=srg>40</TD><TD class=srg>88</TD><TD class=srg>10</TD><TD class=srg>8</TD><TD class=srg>2</TD><TD class=srg>150</TD><TD class=srg>68</TD><TD class=srg>14</TD><TD class=srg>.343</TD><TD class=srg>.362</TD><TD class=srg>.402</TD><TD class=srg>.764</TD><TD class=srg>40.7</TD></TR><TR><TD class=sl>1905 Minnesota - MLB</TD><TD class=sr>24</TD><TD class=sr>78</TD><TD class=sr>328</TD><TD class=sr>101</TD><TD class=sr>8</TD><TD class=sr>0</TD><TD class=sr>1</TD><TD class=sr>22</TD><TD class=sr>40</TD><TD class=sr>10</TD><TD class=sr>4</TD><TD class=sr>0</TD><TD class=sr>72</TD><TD class=sr>32</TD><TD class=sr>15</TD><TD class=sr>.308</TD><TD class=sr>.336</TD><TD class=sr>.341</TD><TD class=sr>.678</TD><TD class=sr>5.8</TD></TR><TR><TD class=slg>1906 Minnesota - MLB</TD><TD class=srg>25</TD><TD class=srg>153</TD><TD class=srg>669</TD><TD class=srg>232</TD><TD class=srg>11</TD><TD class=srg>1</TD><TD class=srg>5</TD><TD class=srg>61</TD><TD class=srg>112</TD><TD class=srg>42</TD><TD class=srg>16</TD><TD class=srg>2</TD><TD class=srg>144</TD><TD class=srg>88</TD><TD class=srg>24</TD><TD class=srg>.347</TD><TD class=srg>.398</TD><TD class=srg>.389</TD><TD class=srg>.786</TD><TD class=srg>60.0</TD></TR><TR class=hsx><TD class=h2l>Total MLB</TD><TD class=h2r>3 yrs.</TD><TD class=h2r>370</TD><TD class=h2r>1591</TD><TD class=h2r>537</TD><TD class=h2r>27</TD><TD class=h2r>7</TD><TD class=h2r>11</TD><TD class=h2r>123</TD><TD class=h2r>240</TD><TD class=h2r>62</TD><TD class=h2r>28</TD><TD class=h2r>4</TD><TD class=h2r>366</TD><TD class=h2r>188</TD><TD class=h2r>53</TD><TD class=h2r>.338</TD><TD class=h2r>.372</TD><TD class=h2r>.384</TD><TD class=h2r>.756</TD><TD class=h2r>106.6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=lpo style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=911><TBODY><TR><TD class=sl width=80>01-01-1902</TD><TD class=sl width=831>SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Contact: 80 (95); Power: 21 (34); Eye: 22 (33).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=lpo style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=911><TBODY><TR><TD class=sl width=80>01-01-1903</TD><TD class=sl width=831>SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Contact: 67 (67); Power: 11 (11); Eye: 24 (24).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:55 PM   #9
Wolfbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
That indeed should not happen, there's certainly a bug there... I'll look into it!

Can a beta tester please create a BZ for me, I do not have access to it at the moment. Thanks!!
Thank you very much for the response Markus, I am just surprised that nobody else brought this issue to you before. Any solution you could provide would make this game even greater.
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
That indeed should not happen, there's certainly a bug there... I'll look into it!

Can a beta tester please create a BZ for me, I do not have access to it at the moment. Thanks!!
It's a player creation issue.
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:46 PM   #11
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It's a player creation issue.
Probably... but this seems to me like some sort of rating-wrap-around. We'll see...
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:52 PM   #12
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Very young players can get created with very high BABIP, but nothing else. I've seen it fairly often.
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:10 PM   #13
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BZ created...
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:12 PM   #14
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Very young players can get created with very high BABIP, but nothing else. I've seen it fairly often.
But that would not explain that they hit .350 or so in the majors while striking out a ton. So I guess the BABIP rating wrapped around to 255...
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:12 PM   #15
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Very young players can get created with very high BABIP, but nothing else. I've seen it fairly often.
Have you seen this with players who weren't created in a feeder league or just in feeder league created players?
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:24 PM   #16
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But that would not explain that they hit .350 or so in the majors while striking out a ton. So I guess the BABIP rating wrapped around to 255...
Sure it could. If a guy gets created with a 250 BABIP and a 1 AvoidK, which happens, then they would hit a ton and K a ton...an odd occurrence that would be very rare in real life.

It could well be a wrap around, though. I just focused on player creation because I've seen that happen.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:25 PM   #17
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Have you seen this with players who weren't created in a feeder league or just in feeder league created players?
I focus mostly on non-feeder leagues.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:14 PM   #18
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In regards to the high contact/low everything else folks that are generated, I use mostly feeder leagues, and I see them there. I also see them in non-feeder pools. I call them "711 guys", because the prototype is for someone to have a "7" contact rating (out of 10, my preferred scale), "1" power, and "1" eye. As mentioned elsewhere, in real life these guys hardly exist, but there are bunches in the draft pool who can hit .300 in the majors right out of HS/college. I have to house rule my way out of them - I can't draft them (except for pitchers), I can't trade for them, and I can't sign them as FAs. So they have only a minor effect on my enjoyment of the game. Besides, how useful is a .310/.330/.350 guy anyway?

In regards to adjusting the talent in feeder leagues, I've asked about it, and there appears to be no way to do it in the current game. I hope it makes it in future versions; it's a selling point for me to be able to tweak my universes in that way.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:52 PM   #19
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Just has to be said...

'If I'd a hit that many singles, I'd a wore a dress.'
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Old 04-18-2008, 02:37 AM   #20
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So they have only a minor effect on my enjoyment of the game. Besides, how useful is a .310/.330/.350 guy anyway?
I've got one of those types of guys starting in my outfield on one of my online teams. The team sucks so I just needed someone who could hit.

Player Report for #56 Eligius Hinz

According to his VORP, he isn't useless.
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