Help from fellow fans

[MizzouRah]

Ok, year #4 in my solo league and Rickey Henderson did not make the Hall, so I inducted him myself.. he is the stolen base king so to me he deserves to be in there.

Anyway should Harold Baines make it?

0.291 AVG
384 HR
1622 RBI
2855 Hits
487 Doubles
49 Triples
1296 Runs

I think he is VERY close to deserving as he is close to the 3000 platau in hits and would have made it if he was a career 0.300 hitter.

Please say yeah or neigh on your vote and I will do what the majority say..


Thanks,

Todd

[Nero]

In all honesty, I dont see Harold Baines as a Hall of Famer. Harold is a guy who was a VERY good player for many years, BUT he never was a dominant player, or dominated the game for a few years at a time. Ask yourself, should a guy who was a part time player ( DH ) for more than 1/2 of his career be inducted ??

Guys who this arguement applies to are Bert Blyleven and Jim Kaat. Both pitchers won 275+ games, and are not members of the hall. They won a lot of games, but were never, ever the dominant pitchers of their era.

A guy like Sandy Koufax, who won less than 190 games is in the hall, why ? Because despite a short career, he was THE dominant pitcher in his era.

Sorry, just dont see a guy like Harold Baines in the Hall of Fame.....

[bigphesta]

I have to go with Nero and say "NO" Although Baines was a very good player, he was never dominant, never won an MVP and really doesn't belong.. although IMHO theres ALOT of players in the Hall who don't necessarly belong. A hall should be for the LEGENDS of the game, not just the great or very very good ones.

[BillyBuck]

Surprise, surprise. I am one of those guys who ends up in tears when talking about WHO should be in the Hall of Fame. Hmmm...I wonder why?

[Redbird]

I do not think so.

By the way Troy beat St Charles West

[4wards]

Hall of Famer,thats funny,baseball stats are so out of of sync today with those of yester year.One of these days when you have some time take todays rosters,drop 15 teams,draft the regular players to thier real team,then draft the best left overs to the teams,then sim,see how these 1970 and on wonders stack up with the older guys!Does anybody really think Barry Bonds is better than Willie Mays or even his daddy!

[LivnLegend]

Even if Baines were somehow able to make it to 3000 hits (in your sim or in MLB) I don't think he would deserve enshrinement. He of course would break the unwritten rule of 3,000 hits = automatic HOF.

[Draft Dodger]

good player.

not a Hall of Fame player.

[Khaos]

Nay.
Players with lesser numbers may get in, but I do believe that a Hall of Famer needs to be judged based upon when he played. Did he dominate his position then? If yes he should be elected. Comparing historical numbers or having magic numbers are when numbers begin to lie because of their misuse.

[BaseballMan]

Im not so sure we should say no so quick.
I think a lot of people are thinking what Baines did in real life and not what he did in the guys sim. He never said he used Baines as a dh, how do i know Baines didnt learn another position? A career .291 hitter is pretty good. Would we so quick to say if it was Musial or Ted Williams?
Id like to know how many years he played...If he just got so many hits cause he played so long i would probably say no but if he went to some all-star games was in the top ten in a few catgorys etc. When it comes to players like that i think you have to look at more than just avg, hits,hr etc..So i would need more information,but as of right now its a narrow no because i dont know if he just got his stats from a prolong career from dhing.

[hellfrozeover]

The way I see it is that if he had a career similar to the one he had in real life, he does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. A very good player, but just not spectacular. He was never a gold glover or an mvp. I'm not sure if he even went to a world series or not. It is similar to a guy like David Segui. Segui has been a very consistent hiter hovering around .300 over the last 7 seasons. But he has never been a spectacular player either defensively or offensively. Just my two cents.

[Nero]

I suppose that the one other thing to do, is not to compare him to the legendary Hall of Famers, after all, we all know that statistics lie. After all, statistics varied by era. A power hitter in the dead ball era had 12 home runs, and today, a utility infielder has 12 dingers by the all-star break.

These days players have longer careers, and some stats become meaningless. Look at the notable absence of Goose Gossage and Bruce Sutter from the Hall of Fame. Those who saw them pitch saw how they dominated the game as closers from the late 70's to the mid 80's. Of course Sutter had one year of 45 saves, and I dont believe that Gossage ever had 40. People look at their grand totals and are not impressed, the fact of the matter is, if you compare them to those of their era, they really were dominant, and deserve the Hall.

To relate this, consider the other Hall of Fame caliber players who may be in your Hall of Fame who played in the same era as Harold Baines, and those who were good, but never quite HoF caliber. Was Harold ever as dominant as Kirby Puckett, remember Puckett won 2 World Series ?

It's not fair to compare Baines to someone like Stan Musial. Compare him to others of his era, and if you just do that, you'll find that he had a longer career, but his numbers dont match up to the best of his day. The closest past comparison that I can find was Carl Yastremski. A solid player who had one tremendous year, 1967, but otherwise was very solid over a long period of time. Still though, Yaz made the World Series, and often played his best at crucial moments, not to mention winning an MVP award.

Okay, enough said, I'd vote "no" on proposition Baines.

[BaseballMan]

I agree hellfrozeover,
if he played like he did in real life...but what i was saying is that he didnt tell us if he was a dh or how many years he played.. I mean if he got

0.291 AVG
384 HR
1622 RBI
2855 Hits
487 Doubles
49 Triples
1296 Runs
in 10 years or 12 years thats pretty good no matter who you are. But i agree if he just dh for 20 years he doesnt deserve the hall..and i agree with Nero that we should judge him against the other players of his era..Of course its just a simulation but i try to look at what the player did in the sim not what he did in real life.

[mtw]

[quote]Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan:
<strong>
Anyway should Harold Baines make it?
0.291 AVG
384 HR
1622 RBI
2855 Hits
487 Doubles
49 Triples
1296 Runs
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I love HOF questions, so I'll throw my two cents.

Real life: Harold was a DH for 2/3 of his career--at best an average hitter against left-handed pitching (when he faced them), zero speed for his entire career and only a fair batting eye. It would be tough to argue that he was one of the 10 best left-handed hitters of his era after becoming a DH, and likely for no more than 1 or 2 years before becoming a DH. In other words, no American League, no stats, and even with the American League, how can a guy who wasn't among the premiere players in the game for the last 15 years of his career go into the Hall? As a "professional hitter" who never scored more than 89 runs in a season, drove in 100 runs only once in his last 16 seasons and 90 runs only 4 times, and even as a DH, never appeared in as many as 150 games (140 only three times) during the last 13 years, with nothing to offer in the way of comparative superiority to other players of his era (in hitting, defense or speed), even he would weaken what has become a Hall of Good Players. Without the knee problems, Harold coulda been a contenda, but, as they say, tough.

Fictional: As for whether your league should induct him, well, I guess that's up to you...

[BaseballMan]

Oh i totaly agree Baines doesnt belong in the real hall of fame but what we are suppose to be voting on is what he has done in the guys fictional league. And i say i need more info on what he did in the fictional league before i can vote.

[CBL-Commish]

Depends on what standards you want to use. Baseball Writers - almost certainly not. They won't even elect the best catcher of the '75-'90 period (Gary Carter).

Veterans Committee - yes, no doubt about it. There are probably 25 or 30 guys the Vet's Committee elected who aren't as good as Baines. Lindstrom, McCarthy, Bobby Wallace, Travis Jackson, etc.

[MizzouRah]

This is why I love this game and the community.. we could all meet over a few cold ones and talk about this most of the day..

Thanks... he only played (1) year in my league as he retired in 2001, in 2000 he played limited time (only like 94 games appeared in). I just honestly don't know much about Baines and thought his stats looked pretty good so I knew I could post here and get some intelligent posts.

Again, thanks..

Todd

[Khaos]

Looking at it from just within the game, I would go back over the seasons he played and look at how he compared to the other players each year. Was he consistently on top or just good. I'd also look at his IW numbers. It shows how the PC sees him as a threat and thus his impact as a hitter.

[tarheel-panther]

I would also say no and offer a comparison. I would say no based on the fact that Jim Rice has not been elected or at this point been even close. In the late 70's and early 80's Jim Rice was one of the most dominant power hitters of the era and though his career was much shorter ended up with some pretty good numbers. Not sure that Rice deserves to be in, but would think that he would have a better argument than Baines. Just my two cents.

[BillyBuck]

...I mean, shouldn't Buck at least go into the Hall for most infamous error in history...?