I'm done

[cavebutter]

here, but I've never been able to stay interested in "real" leagues, current or historical. Though I've tried several times since 6.5, I end up getting confused between the real players in my game and the real players in the real world-- and it would frustrate me. I've been playing almost exclusively fictional universes and am having a blast.

Oh well.

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by Assos

If he feels that he can not handle or set up the universe, then that is his choice. The lack of real world rosters are an issue, so be it! But please post your comments in a positive way that will help the developers are help you with the issue.

The thing is there are no "issues" as far as the developer goes. From the context of his post, he doesn't seem to be someone who is completely unfamiliar with OOTP. Therefore he should have known going in that real players would not be included with the game and that he'd have to wait until the mod crew came up with a roster set. Also, if he is indeed not new to the OOTP series, he should have known how difficult it is to create a roster set. And if that's not enough, if he was waiting for a 2007 roster set before purchasing the game, then why did he purchase it in the first place?

In short, there's a lot of stuf in his post that just doesn't add up and more importantly, it's got nothing to do with the people who designed, coded, and marketed the game.

[Puckett guy]

We have to accept that OOTP is not for everyone. For some folks entertainment is checkers or tetris. For some, entertainment is criticizing the efforts of others.

IMO if you want real life baseball turn on your TV or get out to a game. If you want to become helplessly addicted to a fictional baseball universe of your own creation then turn on your PC and fire up OOTP.

Now for me, its back to my fictional 2001 Twins and their phenomenal 20 year old rookie, Gonzalo Igelsias who hit his 36th HR last night.

[rdomico]

Originally Posted by jdickins

My buddies and I have been working without sleep for almost 2 weeks on a super accurate set of 'real world' t-ball rosters. Problem is, according to http://www.teeballusa.org/ there are almost 2.2 million t-ball players in the USA alone! We are also having trouble getting accurate Height and Weight information. Still, we've already made a pretty good dent in the data entry, and we are hoping for a mid-summer release (assuming we continue to work non-stop, straight through, without sleep). I think it will go faster now that my girlfriend moved out and phone has been cut off...

I coach a T-Ball team. I'll be sure to scout the league and send over the info. Two of my children play and they have 5 Star potential...

[chimanbj]

Originally Posted by kevchod

I'm not sure why people even post this stuff to begin with.

Anyhow...I remember the good ol' days when people just had to make 25 man Major League rosters. Now we're practically down to tee-ball leagues, and people want them accurate. (HEY! The 4th starter on the A-league team is 6'2", not 6'1"!!!) Okay, maybe I exaggerated a bit there...but you all know what I mean.

Amen! I'm quite happy with the Lahman database and the photo packs and logos that have been created by the various board members. There's so much to like about this game, that the lack of 2007 rosters is pointless. Unless you're doing a daily recreation of MLB, there's no point of being so upset about the lack of 2007 rosters, especially when the 2006 rosters are everywhere. And with the Lahman import, you can even load the 2006 rosters and load the full, real history...but whatever.

I'm happy

[Assos]

I know I will have my 2007 rosters for next year. Of course I start and play out my games in the 1930s. I am on year two 1940 of those really bad Phillies teams.... just drafted Stan the man.... there is hope and I have Pee Wee at SS and my favorite under rated 3B Jim Tabor.

[Melo]

and so robnail passes like a fart in the wind...

[Go Tribe]

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

The thing is there are no "issues" as far as the developer goes. From the context of his post, he doesn't seem to be someone who is completely unfamiliar with OOTP. Therefore he should have known going in that real players would not be included with the game and that he'd have to wait until the mod crew came up with a roster set. Also, if he is indeed not new to the OOTP series, he should have known how difficult it is to create a roster set. And if that's not enough, if he was waiting for a 2007 roster set before purchasing the game, then why did he purchase it in the first place?

In short, there's a lot of stuf in his post that just doesn't add up and more importantly, it's got nothing to do with the people who designed, coded, and marketed the game.

actually it is an issue from a developer standpoint until markus makes it easier for people to make their own roster set. from what i've read, making a roster set with ootp is a painstakingly arduous task that is not helped at all by how it's been developed. just allowing roster makers to type in desired stats and having the game spit out ratings (instead of the backwards way it's done now) would be one way to make it much more user friendly.

please also note, just because others prefer to play fictional or historical leagues doesn't mean that you should dump on people that want to see how 2007 would play out if they were GM of their favorite team. it's just a personal preference.

[Poleaxe]

Originally Posted by jdickins

My buddies and I have been working without sleep for almost 2 weeks on a super accurate set of 'real world' t-ball rosters. Problem is, according to http://www.teeballusa.org/ there are almost 2.2 million t-ball players in the USA alone! We are also having trouble getting accurate Height and Weight information. Still, we've already made a pretty good dent in the data entry, and we are hoping for a mid-summer release (assuming we continue to work non-stop, straight through, without sleep). I think it will go faster now that my girlfriend moved out and phone has been cut off...

I'm a little concerned about how the new morale feature is going to affect players at the t-ball level. The last thing I need is my best hitter all pissed off because he wasn't allowed to watch Dora.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Poleaxe

I'm a little concerned about how the new morale feature is going to affect players at the t-ball level. The last thing I need is my best hitter all pissed off because he wasn't allowed to watch Dora.

He watches Diego; she watches Dora.

[robnail]

The results of Lahman imports have always felt cheesy to me. There are too many dangling bits of information that seem to screw things up and leave things feeling wooden. Like I said before, I am more interested in simulating a realistic baseball experience rather than escaping to my own fictional world.

At no point in my post did I say the game was difficult to use or confusing. I said the creation of real-life rosters should not require the sheer amount of data entry and painstaking detail that it does. I simply do not understand why the desires of real-life roster lovers are ignored. I realize OOTP never promised me the ability to create a realistic baseball universe and I blame myself for my decision to purchase the game. That said, the OOTP-licensed moderators who post to this forum make common paractice of spouting off about how easy the game is to customize and shouting down people who want to plug and play with realistic rosters. As a paying customer, this thread left me feeling insulted, even if it didn't stop me from buying the game. Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

I am continuously baffled at the way this community takes the gripes and complaints of ten or so losers and applies them to the entire real-life roster segment. I have never even considered complaining about an existing roster set or criticizing someone who is taking "too long" to create one. I reserve the right to criticize the game's developers who market a game as "easy to customize" when long-time roster-makers can't begin to hone their craft efficiently.

Baseball Mogul is a joke. I've headed back to Diamond Mind for now. I spent three hours last night tweaking stats and player usage variables, and now I'm ready to play a few games. It feels good. After the season, I may try creating a database of the stats I generate and importing it into OOTP 2007 to continue past 2007. Maybe then I can get something out of my purchase...

[james17]

Originally Posted by Scoman

And about 98% of the OOTPB 2007 customers agree with you.

Originally Posted by Mntwins

Bummer, I feel this version is the best of all them.

I agree!

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Dagrims

He'll probably head over to OT now to start posting angry things. That is, if he's not already there.

Exactly.

[BigCity]

Originally Posted by robnail

The results of Lahman imports have always felt cheesy to me. There are too many dangling bits of information that seem to screw things up and leave things feeling wooden. Like I said before, I am more interested in simulating a realistic baseball experience rather than escaping to my own fictional world.

At no point in my post did I say the game was difficult to use or confusing. I said the creation of real-life rosters should not require the sheer amount of data entry and painstaking detail that it does. I simply do not understand why the desires of real-life roster lovers are ignored. I realize OOTP never promised me the ability to create a realistic baseball universe and I blame myself for my decision to purchase the game. That said, the OOTP-licensed moderators who post to this forum make common paractice of spouting off about how easy the game is to customize and shouting down people who want to plug and play with realistic rosters. As a paying customer, this thread left me feeling insulted, even if it didn't stop me from buying the game. Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

I am continuously baffled at the way this community takes the gripes and complaints of ten or so losers and applies them to the entire real-life roster segment. I have never even considered complaining about an existing roster set or criticizing someone who is taking "too long" to create one. I reserve the right to criticize the game's developers who market a game as "easy to customize" when long-time roster-makers can't begin to hone their craft efficiently.

Baseball Mogul is a joke. I've headed back to Diamond Mind for now. I spent three hours last night tweaking stats and player usage variables, and now I'm ready to play a few games. It feels good. After the season, I may try creating a database of the stats I generate and importing it into OOTP 2007 to continue past 2007. Maybe then I can get something out of my purchase...

Unless I'm missing something huge, I think your blaming the wrong people.

You're unhappy about the Lahman database why? Because there is too many details missing? As far as accuracy, all the LDB is is a database with real stats, and yes, a couple things aren't there.

If OOTP imports the actual stats, and the players don't perform to your expectation of "accuracy", then we must conclude that the conversion into OOTP is in error or you are using the wrong settings.

However....

We already know that the PURPOSE of OOTP was never to duplicate the exact stats of any player. The original design of the game was to allow for "variation" and it wasn't until this version Markus tried to lock that down - rather successfully I might add. It's not perfect - but a ton better than it used to be.

If you favor Diamond Mind, then I have to believe it's the "accuracy" issue your striving for, and I will be the first to admit that OOTP will never produce the accuracy of DM. (Second to admit actually, Markus was the first)

Now, on the other hand - if your complaint is because the rosters down to t-ball arent' there, you have to understand they don't exist - anywhere. You can't include something in a game that doesn't exist... and the staff at SI isn't anywhere near big enough to research and create such rosters.

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by robnail

The results of Lahman imports have always felt cheesy to me. There are too many dangling bits of information that seem to screw things up and leave things feeling wooden. Like I said before, I am more interested in simulating a realistic baseball experience rather than escaping to my own fictional world.

At no point in my post did I say the game was difficult to use or confusing. I said the creation of real-life rosters should not require the sheer amount of data entry and painstaking detail that it does.

These two paragraphs seem to be in tension with each other. If you don't want "painstaking detail," then creating simple MLB rosters in a spreadsheet, then importing them as a CSV, is not very difficult or time-consuming. (In fact, others have already done just that.) The reason "real rosters" have taken so long is precisely the attempt to create a "realistic baseball experience" with full minors, etc. I can't imagine any way that the game could make that quicker or more automatic.

BTW, I understand the urge to go off on some frustrating detail of a game you've bought; I've done the same myself with other games (and OOTP 2006). So I don't agree with those who ascribe you ulterior motives or so on, & I won't flame you. And you shouldn't feel embarrassed if you end up loving the game and deciding to post a mea culpa in a couple of months.

[Melo]

I don't get the fascination with real rosters. Let me qualify that though: I have played them. I've played Rolen's and Cubby's rosters with 5, 6 and 2006and I've really enjoyed playing them. However, after that first season, you start introducing fictional elements anyways. Even with the ammy draft, if you do a 25 round draft you're introducing a lot of fictional players. Add in the fact that the real kids you drafted end up progressing very quickly and by the time you start the second season you are well into the "what if" scenario and moving away from the "realistic" scenario. Whenever I've played those roster sets I knew going in that I was only going to get something approximating one "real" season and if I played each game out inning by inning maybe I'd get a couple of months of real time playing one season. If I'm just simming, it gets fictional within a day or two.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Melo

I don't get the fascination with real rosters. Let me qualify that though: I have played them. I've played Rolen's and Cubby's rosters with 5, 6 and 2006and I've really enjoyed playing them. However, after that first season, you start introducing fictional elements anyways. Even with the ammy draft, if you do a 25 round draft you're introducing a lot of fictional players. Add in the fact that the real kids you drafted end up progressing very quickly and by the time you start the second season you are well into the "what if" scenario and moving away from the "realistic" scenario. Whenever I've played those roster sets I knew going in that I was only going to get something approximating one "real" season and if I played each game out inning by inning maybe I'd get a couple of months of real time playing one season. If I'm just simming, it gets fictional within a day or two.

"

I'd go so far as to say that if you import "real" rosters for April 1, 2007, by the end of day on April 2, 2007 it's a fictional league. The game gives semi-random hits and bumps to player ratings and on top of that there is injury.

[delta]

Originally Posted by Melo

I don't get the fascination with real rosters. Let me qualify that though: I have played them. I've played Rolen's and Cubby's rosters with 5, 6 and 2006and I've really enjoyed playing them. However, after that first season, you start introducing fictional elements anyways. Even with the ammy draft, if you do a 25 round draft you're introducing a lot of fictional players. Add in the fact that the real kids you drafted end up progressing very quickly and by the time you start the second season you are well into the "what if" scenario and moving away from the "realistic" scenario. Whenever I've played those roster sets I knew going in that I was only going to get something approximating one "real" season and if I played each game out inning by inning maybe I'd get a couple of months of real time playing one season. If I'm just simming, it gets fictional within a day or two.

I think that part of the attraction is
a) Tracking the players of today and see where they ultimately end up and how they do
b) Not having to learn an entirely new corpus of players, only the new guys that you can watch come up from the minors yourself

[NomarHits400]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

"

I'd go so far as to say that if you import "real" rosters for April 1, 2007, by the end of day on April 2, 2007 it's a fictional league. The game gives semi-random hits and bumps to player ratings and on top of that there is injury.

That is correct- but that isn't really the point. I suspect that a lot of the reason people want real rosters is- at least to start their careers- they have a built in knowledge of the whole league- easily recognizable names as new ones blend in. It helps with the immersion value- for ME- and perhaps others. Just becasue new players are added doesn't mean Albert Pujols is retiring tomorrow- I can still follow his- and hundreds of other real players- through their careers. This appeals to me. Many others couldn't care less. Just because we want real rosters doesn't mean we don't want a dynamic universe. To insist that these are mutually exclusive is not correct- and it's not what most of us who want real rosters want, otherwise we would just play DMB.

[The Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Melo

I don't get the fascination with real rosters. Let me qualify that though: I have played them. I've played Rolen's and Cubby's rosters with 5, 6 and 2006and I've really enjoyed playing them. However, after that first season, you start introducing fictional elements anyways. Even with the ammy draft, if you do a 25 round draft you're introducing a lot of fictional players. Add in the fact that the real kids you drafted end up progressing very quickly and by the time you start the second season you are well into the "what if" scenario and moving away from the "realistic" scenario. Whenever I've played those roster sets I knew going in that I was only going to get something approximating one "real" season and if I played each game out inning by inning maybe I'd get a couple of months of real time playing one season. If I'm just simming, it gets fictional within a day or two.

But you don't start with an overwhelming amount of fictional elements which is the main reason I prefer real/historicals versus completely fictional. Yes, the 1B prospect about to take his first AB in 2009 is fictional, but I got to watch him come up....and they are few enough to where I can keep my eyes on most of the top prospects coming into the bigs. As it stands starting in a completely fictional world, I'm staring at a bunch of players I know nothing about an having to digest it all in one fell swoop....that may have it's draw for some, but not really for me.

I love the game and think it's the best iteration of them all(been playing since I bought STB in an EB for a few dollars) It just seems roster mods are getting more and more difficult for whatever reason and it's unfortunate...I enjoyed the days where Halofan was tossing em out as well and miss his contributions to the community.

And was it 5 or 6 that came packaged with real players but fake names? What happened with that although I probably can guess the answer had something to do with SI's fear of the MLB license group...