Salary Cap Violation

dimjulskur · 04-01-2007, 02:01 PM

In OOTP 2007 I continue to see a problem with salary caps. In my current league I have set the salary cap at 90m... and every year (at different points in the year) a few teams are always over the salary cap. I investigated each of these rogue teams and noticed that not only is the total over but the players portion was over as well. I have tested this for multiple seasons and checked during different portions of the season (beg of year, before playoffs, before reg season, etc..) and the problem continues to persist.

As an aside, it is difficult to determine what the appropriate salary cap should be given the financial parameters available. Although I did do some air math and calculated a reasonable number given the attendance average, ticket prices, media contract, etc... it is difficult to determine what salary levels should be set for star players, average players, etc... that corresponds to the salary cap level. As others have noted having these values out of whack can impact free agent signings... end of the day, I can fix this with trial and error but would think that the game itself maybe through a modifier can set the values of some of the financial variables off the salary cap... or vice versa...

Solonor · 04-04-2007, 12:11 AM

The game comes with an editable list of default financial setups for every season from 1901-2006. I don't believe it includes a salary cap, because a salary cap is not historical. So, once you add a cap, you've taken the first step toward throwing the finances out-of-whack (or into some other state that you like). It's hard to program that kind of stuff into the game when it doesn't exist in real life. The best bet for you is to communicate with others on the forum and see what suggestions they have.

As for the going over the cap thing, that has been in every version of OOTP, and I'm not sure how the game can do any more to get around it. The game prevents a team from signing any players that will put it over the cap, and it prevents trades that would put the team over the cap. The only time I have seen a team over the cap is after arbitration when the arbitration-eligible players get their new salaries. However, as soon as the team is in violation of the cap, all the restrictions on trades and signings kick in.

If you have seen a team go over the player salary cap from a transaction other than arbitration, let me know, and I will TT it.

Neags23 · 04-04-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solonor

As for the going over the cap thing, that has been in every version of OOTP, and I'm not sure how the game can do any more to get around it. The game prevents a team from signing any players that will put it over the cap, and it prevents trades that would put the team over the cap. The only time I have seen a team over the cap is after arbitration when the arbitration-eligible players get their new salaries. However, as soon as the team is in violation of the cap, all the restrictions on trades and signings kick in.

If you have seen a team go over the player salary cap from a transaction other than arbitration, let me know, and I will TT it.

What happens when it's almost impossible for a team to meet the cap? For instance, if the cap is implemented at the beginning league creation, and then you sim for 50 years. The cap may only be $200,000, but by then, a team full of minimum salary guys will put the team over. At this point, does the game just completely ignore the cap?

The reason I ask is that I have a league full of teams blatantly ignoring the salary cap. They're not even trying. It is a very strict cap (approx. 10 times the salary of a superstar caliber player) because I instituted it in 1901, then simmed 20 years. Obviously salaries go up, but the cap stays the same. Maybe some way to make it go up proportionally with the average salary would be a good feature to implement.

As it is, of my 24 teams, only 4 were under the cap (so it was possible to be under... the others just ignored it). Don't know if this is a bug, since it was my cap implementation, but what is supposed to happen in the given situation?

Solonor · 04-04-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neags23

What happens when it's almost impossible for a team to meet the cap? For instance, if the cap is implemented at the beginning league creation, and then you sim for 50 years. The cap may only be $200,000, but by then, a team full of minimum salary guys will put the team over. At this point, does the game just completely ignore the cap?

The reason I ask is that I have a league full of teams blatantly ignoring the salary cap. They're not even trying. It is a very strict cap (approx. 10 times the salary of a superstar caliber player) because I instituted it in 1901, then simmed 20 years. Obviously salaries go up, but the cap stays the same. Maybe some way to make it go up proportionally with the average salary would be a good feature to implement.

As it is, of my 24 teams, only 4 were under the cap (so it was possible to be under... the others just ignored it). Don't know if this is a bug, since it was my cap implementation, but what is supposed to happen in the given situation?

Hrm...again, the only way I've seen the cap violated is by arbitration values assigned. If the team is over the cap, they shouldn't be allowed to sign any new players or trade for anyone that will put them over the cap. So, if you have teams over the cap, we need to figure out if it's because of arbitration or because they're ignoring the cap.

From the transaction log, has any of these teams signed a free agent since going over? If so, that needs to be TT'd.

EDIT: Duh. The "minimum salary guys" bit just hit me in the head. I see what you're saying. Yes, the cap would be ignored in that case, because minimum salary is minimum salary (kinda like arbitration is arbitration). So, I understand what you're getting at now. I will TT this, but since the cap is not historical, then I doubt it will be an easy fix for the same reason you can't decide on how to fix it yourself...what percentage growth do you use? Who knows?

Neags23 · 04-04-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solonor

EDIT: Duh. The "minimum salary guys" bit just hit me in the head. I see what you're saying. Yes, the cap would be ignored in that case, because minimum salary is minimum salary (kinda like arbitration is arbitration). So, I understand what you're getting at now. I will TT this, but since the cap is not historical, then I doubt it will be an easy fix for the same reason you can't decide on how to fix it yourself...what percentage growth do you use? Who knows?

So, in the case of minimum salary described above... should the team only sign guys to minimum salary contracts to do their best to stay under the cap? Even if this means losing a star player? In other words, if there is an absurdly low cap (say... 10 dollars), should every player on the team be signed to a minimum salary deal? Or can the team at that point just act as if there is no cap? Because in this case, they're doing the latter, even though this isn't an absurdly low salary cap like that, (as evidenced by the fact that some of the teams are obeying the cap).

I can certainly see the complications that arise from all of these different situations, though. I'll pour through some transaction logs and see what's going on with all of these teams and report back sometime later.

Thanks for the info!

Solonor · 04-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neags23

So, in the case of minimum salary described above... should the team only sign guys to minimum salary contracts to do their best to stay under the cap? Even if this means losing a star player? In other words, if there is an absurdly low cap (say... 10 dollars), should every player on the team be signed to a minimum salary deal? Or can the team at that point just act as if there is no cap? Because in this case, they're doing the latter, even though this isn't an absurdly low salary cap like that, (as evidenced by the fact that some of the teams are obeying the cap).

I can certainly see the complications that arise from all of these different situations, though. I'll pour through some transaction logs and see what's going on with all of these teams and report back sometime later.

Thanks for the info!

No, they shouldn't be signing anyone--even for minimum salary. They should be stuck promoting players from their own minors. However, that will automatically give those players minimum salary.

Neags23 · 04-04-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solonor

No, they shouldn't be signing anyone--even for minimum salary. They should be stuck promoting players from their own minors. However, that will automatically give those players minimum salary.

Okay, then, this cap definitely is not working right. The Red Sox just gave a $3,100 extension to a player (league min. is $2,636) while they were $142k over the salary cap (cap is $300k). The Reds are $76k over the cap and signed a guy to a two year $135k extension (almost a quarter of the cap).

From everything you've said, this definitely shouldn't be happening, right?

Add on:

There are some studly free agents apparently not getting signed, so this part seems to be working okay. Curious.... would an all-star player sit in free agency for the rest of his career rather than take a minimum salary offer if that's all any team could afford under the cap?

Solonor · 04-04-2007, 11:38 PM

TT # 3293

It should not be ignoring the cap when signing extensions.

I'm not sure why the players are not signing with the teams that are under the cap. How many teams can actually afford a player for the minimum? They're probably programmed to not settle for such low pay, though.

Neags23 · 04-05-2007, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solonor

TT # 3293

How many teams can actually afford a player for the minimum? They're probably programmed to not settle for such low pay, though.

At this point, (after an expansion and simming a year) 16 out of 28 teams are under the cap, a few well under (payroll of $142k with $300k cap). Superstar avg contract is set at $120k, so they could sign some free agents. Maybe they will later on in the season, though.

dimjulskur · 04-05-2007, 11:15 PM

Appreciate you logging this in... as a new TT.. by the way, i am playing a purely fictional league so the historical aspect should not impact this league... what seems to be happening is the AI is attempting to fit the salary levels that correspond to the averages in the game setup screen and ignoring the cap... in my opinion, the cap should rule (other than minim salary)... and should disallow any contract that takes the team over the cap and or if a team is over... then the AI should prevent any transactions (other than ones that reduce the payroll) until a team is under the cap (a la the NFL)...

04-01-2007, 02:01 PM	#1
dimjulskur Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2006 Location: Natick, MA Posts: 78	Salary Cap Violation In OOTP 2007 I continue to see a problem with salary caps. In my current league I have set the salary cap at 90m... and every year (at different points in the year) a few teams are always over the salary cap. I investigated each of these rogue teams and noticed that not only is the total over but the players portion was over as well. I have tested this for multiple seasons and checked during different portions of the season (beg of year, before playoffs, before reg season, etc..) and the problem continues to persist. As an aside, it is difficult to determine what the appropriate salary cap should be given the financial parameters available. Although I did do some air math and calculated a reasonable number given the attendance average, ticket prices, media contract, etc... it is difficult to determine what salary levels should be set for star players, average players, etc... that corresponds to the salary cap level. As others have noted having these values out of whack can impact free agent signings... end of the day, I can fix this with trial and error but would think that the game itself maybe through a modifier can set the values of some of the financial variables off the salary cap... or vice versa...

04-04-2007, 12:11 AM	#2
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	The game comes with an editable list of default financial setups for every season from 1901-2006. I don't believe it includes a salary cap, because a salary cap is not historical. So, once you add a cap, you've taken the first step toward throwing the finances out-of-whack (or into some other state that you like). It's hard to program that kind of stuff into the game when it doesn't exist in real life. The best bet for you is to communicate with others on the forum and see what suggestions they have. As for the going over the cap thing, that has been in every version of OOTP, and I'm not sure how the game can do any more to get around it. The game prevents a team from signing any players that will put it over the cap, and it prevents trades that would put the team over the cap. The only time I have seen a team over the cap is after arbitration when the arbitration-eligible players get their new salaries. However, as soon as the team is in violation of the cap, all the restrictions on trades and signings kick in. If you have seen a team go over the player salary cap from a transaction other than arbitration, let me know, and I will TT it. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

04-04-2007, 11:38 PM	#8
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	TT # 3293 It should not be ignoring the cap when signing extensions. I'm not sure why the players are not signing with the teams that are under the cap. How many teams can actually afford a player for the minimum? They're probably programmed to not settle for such low pay, though. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

04-05-2007, 11:15 PM	#10
dimjulskur Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2006 Location: Natick, MA Posts: 78	Appreciate you logging this in... as a new TT.. by the way, i am playing a purely fictional league so the historical aspect should not impact this league... what seems to be happening is the AI is attempting to fit the salary levels that correspond to the averages in the game setup screen and ignoring the cap... in my opinion, the cap should rule (other than minim salary)... and should disallow any contract that takes the team over the cap and or if a team is over... then the AI should prevent any transactions (other than ones that reduce the payroll) until a team is under the cap (a la the NFL)...